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ISIS can get people into Canada without refugee immigration. As a matter of fact, I think that the current environment provides a heightened level of awareness and that the risk is lower today than it

Where would one have dropped the bomb to take out the perpetrators of last night's Paris attacks before it began? Downtown Marseille? Don't be surprised if every one of them was a citizen of France.

Don't want them in your neighbourhood...have a pig roast every weekend and ask the women in your area to walk around naked !!! Asked Scuba02 to do the naked neighbourhood thing as well.......that's

I'm not the "king" but if I was......

Remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki ??? Collateral damage be damned... :Furious:

All the leaders of the free world stand and sound off with platitudes of sorrow and grief but what gets done??? Nothing

Need some shock and awe NOW !!!

Does anyone really think this,(Paris event), is NOT going to happen again, or elsewhere...maybe close to home ???

Hopefully, I am not around to see it :glare:

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I'm not the "king" but if I was......

Remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki ??? Collateral damage be damned... :Furious:

All the leaders of the free world stand and sound off with platitudes of sorrow and grief but what gets done??? Nothing

Need some shock and awe NOW !!!

Does anyone really think this,(Paris event), is NOT going to happen again, or elsewhere...maybe close to home ???

Hopefully, I am not around to see it :glare:

Why would you suggest using nuclear weapons. One of the best things that any of us could have done was to vote for a government that wouldn't vastly increase the threat here. warned about this just a few weeks ago but people are more interested in transferring money to themselves from wealthier Canadians and restoring heir access to taxpayers money that the security of their country.

The people have spoken loud and clear. Justin Trudeau is going to make a speech at the upcoming G20 summit on the benefit of refugees t the west.

Let the airlift begin.

Or....take the last chance possible and call your mayor who is calling for more refugees and your premier MP who are doing the same and state that you voted them in because of other policies and insist that this airlift be halted immediately.

Don't say that I didn't warn you about this.

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How do you fight an enemy that is willing to use suicide as a weapon?

I hope that what's happened in Paris causes a backlash. A backlash that will begin the defeat of radical youth suicide minded religious fanatics.

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How do you fight an enemy that is willing to use suicide as a weapon?

I hope that what's happened in Paris causes a backlash. A backlash that will begin the defeat of radical youth suicide minded religious fanatics.

This is not the first time suicide was used as a weapon (eg Kamikazes) but the difficulty this time is removing the source. We need to keep fighting the terrorists but we need to somehow do so using "pinpoint" strikes not ones that kill innocents and bring additional recruits (friends and relatives fo the innocents) to the terrorist ranks. Greater minds than mine need to figure that out. However it is also time to demand that all Muslim nations unite in condemning the terrorists and assist in their extermination. If they don't then we need to act and cut off all ties with those who are unwilling to help.

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Many here may have had a similar discussion, looking at the ISIL rise through the eyes of the teens and twenty-somethings in our families. The bewilderment of our older generation does not seem to be as universal in younger age group. Maybe the cockiness of youth, but it's surprising to me how many times I hear 'obviously' followed by something that, once stated, should probably have been obvious to me but was not.

While any explanation or suggested way forward will be simplistic beyond measure, at least one common thread seems to be the disconnect that many younger folks feel with the 'establishment' of their country, no matter which country that is. Be it the 1 percenter CEO crowd, the occupy movement, the chronic disregard for climate change effects, foreign policy apparently serving corporate agendas, rich ruling class, the list is far longer than we have bandwidth for.

What I hear is that terrorist recruiters don't preach terrorism. They preach change, asymmetric warfare against the machine, the very same sorts of things that the 60's and vietnam war era produced. The difference, if I can even use a term like that, is that the methods both recruiting and execution, are more refined now, the CNN effect casts a far harsher light, so contrast, on the plight of the have-nots, so the idealism that most of us felt at that age is more easily channeled by organisations like ISIL. Remember the Arab Spring? The overthrow of dictators? That theme is still going on.

Among the sea of disturbing elements is how enduring the reprogramming of these individual is. We continue to see cases where ISIL fighters return to their homeland with impenetrable, lethal ideology. While there are large efforts being expended to unlock this dangerous mindset, at present, it's as if many are lost the moment they arrive for their ISIL training. They never truly come back. So how do we address the desire to go the ISIL route of 'change'?

No answers from me today. Just a deep sadness for the victims' families, shared no doubt by the parents and loved ones of the attackers, wondering what they could have done differently.

Vs

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How do you fight an enemy that is willing to use suicide as a weapon?

I hope that what's happened in Paris causes a backlash. A backlash that will begin the defeat of radical youth suicide minded religious fanatics.

You have to start using ISIS against ISIS. Reports have been published recently that a lot of ISIS fighters are returning to their home countries totally disillusioned. You want to harness them to create a de-radicalization network to preach to those who are tempted by the ISIS propaganda. That's not an instant solution like bombing targets overseas, it's grunt work, that takes money, commitment, outreach, collaboration with cultural communities, etc. But it's more likely to succeed than military action which the highest American military officials concede might take many years just to contain an amorphous threat that retreats into the shadows when attacked, and then re-emerges, often with fresh recruits from overseas. The way to defeat it is to not only cut off material supply lines, but to cut off its supply of fresh converts.

Radicalization is a huge problem, but especially in Europe. The Europeans have done a poor job - to put it mildly - in integrating young foreign elements. These are societies that want to retain their Old World ways, values, appearances, etc. In Paris, you have entire districts comprised largely of poor North Africans and Arabs. They are poor, living in squalor, their children were born into these conditions, and the adult children are as poorly off as the parents, with minimal prospects for upward mobility. In North America, it's possible to arrive as an immigrant and in a decade of hard work, buy a single family house in the burbs and live a modest middle class life and watch you children go to university and get okay jobs. Another factor hurting Europe is the borderless society - a week ago, Bavarian police stopped a car with an individual whom they found suspicious - in the car, they found TNT and assault rifles and concluded he was heading to Paris, and alerted French authorities. He might have been planning to participate in last night's terror attacks. He is believed to be a Montenegran, not a Syrian or Iraqi or Libyan. But this was discovered at a spot check. In Canada, anyone coming in from or going overseas in trackable. And starting on March 15, visa-exempt foreign nationals who fly to or transit through Canada will need an Electronic Travel Authorization (eTA). I'm not saying we're more immune from large-scale, coordinated terror attacks - we have to be vigilant, but the likelihood of something like Paris happens here - and especially a series of attacks, is somewhat less and we shouldn't exaggerate the threat and change our lives.

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Germany and France have the largest muslim populations in Europe. There are lots in the UK and Italy.

There's a reason why these attacks take place in France. Muslims in France have been suppressed, discriminated against, ghettoized and denied jobs and education just based on their religion and origin for decades. France is one of two countries (along with Belgium) that outlaws the burqa.

Frustration and desperation lead to hatred toward "captors" and worse. Those who demonize and marginalize muslims will have their prophesies about attacks by muslims come true if we all blindly follow the line of hatred.

It doesn't take muslims to carry out terrorist attacks against the west. We do a fine job ourselves.

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I also think we have to keep things in a unique North American context. Europe is different. We have to approach the challenge from our own perspective. In the US, hundreds are killed by planned gun violence. Maybe the perpetrators are always crazies, but there are more crazies walking around out there than there are terrorists, and it's easier to get a gun in the US than anywhere else in the world. If one accepts domestic violence on a large scale, we shouldn't freak out about a terrorist threat. If you watch CNN, however, you know the US will freak out over this, and it's always to someone's advantage to have you freak out. The security establishment gets a lot more money when you freak out - they have a vested interest in you freaking out. When I was young and really naive, I had a job tracking far left groups, and the police used to come to me - rather than me seeking them out - to tell me about "the threat". After a while, as these tiny Marxist Leninist groups faded away, I realized that these police sources, who made a big deal of secret meetings and giving me "critical tips", never really thought of these young people as any more than little club-like affairs where the recently graduated of like mind got together to shout "Solidarity Forever", drink and get laid. They had no effect whatsoever on society, but some security folks made a living off bloating up their importance.

Last year, I met officials at a shipyard that builds a lot of small vessels for fire, rescue, patrol purposes, and they have an enormous order backlog because the US is throwing around Homeland Security money like it's rice at a wedding. If New York is entitled to some of that money for a new patrol boat, well, so is Podunk Bay, Maine, or Fifi Harbor, Oregon. That's the security game if you scare people enough. You've heard of the Military Industrial Complex? Well, it does very well because of threats, real or imagined. And there is a Security Industrial Complex that does almost as well.

Some of you talk about how your "hard earned tax dollars" are spent. Well, if you didn't freak out, if you kept threats in perspective, the Security Industrial Complex would get fewer of your tax dollars to spend on buying a boat for Podunk or tracking non-threats like union leaders or mainstream environmentalists.

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Re. security in the US, for the first time when we were leaving the docks in SFO last week our large cruise ship was escorted by 2 coastguard zodiac type boats sporting a ready machine gun in the bow. The escort started at departure time and was maintained until our vessel was well under way. We had seen this type of security when leaving San Diego but never in SFO post-48651-0-13554800-1447527388_thumb.j

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Assailant in Paris attacks had Syrian passport and passed through Greek island of Leros: Greece official

A Greek official says one of the assailants in Friday’s terrorist attacks in Paris whose Syrian passport was found at the scene crossed into the European Union through the Greek island of Leros in October.

Citizen Protection Minister Nikos Toskas, in charge of police forces, has released the following statement: “On the case of the Syrian passport found at the scene of the terrorist attack.

“We announce that the passport holder had passed from Leros on Oct. 3. where he was identified based on EU rules… We do not know if the passport was checked by other countries through which the holder likely passed.

“We will continue the painstaking and persistent effort to ensure the security of our country and Europe under difficult circumstances, insisting on complete identification of those arriving.”

Earlier today, two French police officials say that authorities have identified one of the suicide bombers who targeted Paris in deadly attacks as a young Frenchman flagged in the past for links with an Islamic extremist activity.

The officials said the man was among attackers who blew himself up after a rampage and hostage-taking in a Paris concert hall.

Earlier, police officials said at least one suicide bombers who targeted another site, France’s national stadium, was found to have a Syrian passport.

None of the attackers has been publicly identified.

The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to be publicly named

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Assailant in Paris attacks had Syrian passport and passed through Greek island of Leros: Greece official
‎Today, ‎November ‎14, ‎2015, ‏‎2 hours ago | The Associated Press

A Greek official says one of the assailants in Friday’s terrorist attacks in Paris whose Syrian passport was found at the scene crossed into the European Union through the Greek island of Leros in October.

Citizen Protection Minister Nikos Toskas, in charge of police forces, has released the following statement: “On the case of the Syrian passport found at the scene of the terrorist attack.

“We announce that the passport holder had passed from Leros on Oct. 3. where he was identified based on EU rules… We do not know if the passport was checked by other countries through which the holder likely passed.

“We will continue the painstaking and persistent effort to ensure the security of our country and Europe under difficult circumstances, insisting on complete identification of those arriving.”

Earlier today, two French police officials say that authorities have identified one of the suicide bombers who targeted Paris in deadly attacks as a young Frenchman flagged in the past for links with an Islamic extremist activity.

The officials said the man was among attackers who blew himself up after a rampage and hostage-taking in a Paris concert hall.

Earlier, police officials said at least one suicide bombers who targeted another site, France’s national stadium, was found to have a Syrian passport.

None of the attackers has been publicly identified.

The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to be publicly named

The French believe the passports recovered at the scene were fake, or doctored. The name alone doesn't mean much unless they can match a picture of the face of the dead man to security footage in Greek.

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Where would one have dropped the bomb to take out the perpetrators of last night's Paris attacks before it began? Downtown Marseille?

Don't be surprised if every one of them was a citizen of France. To suggest that these assholes are in any way connected with Syrian refugees is disingenuous at best. Those refugees are desperately trying to get away from these jerks. A good percentage of them are Christians. I'm as angry at this crap as anyone but I am not going to engage in emotional knee jerk reactions that will do nothing to stop them. We've had decades of trying to bomb and sniper them out of existence and like the war on drugs, it's been a dismal failure. If you want to find the cause, you're going to need to look a whole lot deeper than someone's belief system.

These people are extremists. If they didn't have a religion to give them commonality, they'd find another cause in about 30 seconds. They're no different than Timothy McVeigh, Paul Bernardo, the FLQ, the IRA and those masked idiots who smash windows and burn cars whenever world leaders gather.

Edited in accordance with the rules of this forum.

Edited by Marshall
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Assailant in Paris attacks had Syrian passport and passed through Greek island of Leros: Greece official
‎Today, ‎November ‎14, ‎2015, ‏‎2 hours ago | The Associated Press

A Greek official says one of the assailants in Friday’s terrorist attacks in Paris whose Syrian passport was found at the scene crossed into the European Union through the Greek island of Leros in October.

The first confirmed participant in the attacks was a 30 year old French national who had been radicalized in 2010 and was known to authorities, but who had not participated previously in activities associated with terrorism.

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Germany and France have the largest muslim populations in Europe. There are lots in the UK and Italy.

There's a reason why these attacks take place in France. Muslims in France have been suppressed, discriminated against, ghettoized and denied jobs and education just based on their religion and origin for decades. France is one of two countries (along with Belgium) that outlaws the burqa.

Frustration and desperation lead to hatred toward "captors" and worse. Those who demonize and marginalize muslims will have their prophesies about attacks by muslims come true if we all blindly follow the line of hatred.

I have a different viewpoint encompassing the same facts.

The muslims in France have refused to be assimilated into French culture, they want to maintain their backward lifestyle and cruel and discriminatory legal system. If they had become part of the fabric of French culture these attacks would not be occurring at least by the homegrown population.

"hatred towards their captors" BS, they are free to leave anytime they want, in my opinion the sooner the better, and if you hadn't let them in to begin with, in such great numbers, you wouldn't have the problem to start with.

Let the muslims live in muslim countries, support their homecoming and survival there, don't import their problems here.

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mo32a: you say "Let the muslims live in mulsim countries etc" I would modify that to say: Let anyone who does not want to abide by the rules of this or any other country either stay in their country of origin or only attempt to change the rules/standards of their new country by becoming a citizen and then using the democratic process to effect change.

We are a nation of immigrants and our rules / laws have changed quite a bit from 1867 but only because our democratic process provides for the opportunity for our citizens to do so. My/ our ancestors fought and gave their lives for that right.

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I see ISIS much differently than most people here, or elsewhere. I see it as a nationalist movement, anchored in specific territory, with an extreme ideology which seeks to conquer, subjugate, exploit and terrorize those around them for the benefit of the few. It's extremism has some parallels to the extra-territorial aims of the Nazis - who wished to conquer the world ultimately and in the medium term, ethnically cleanse eastern Europe so the Aryan race could expand. The Japanese militarists sought to suck the life out of China and Southeast Asia, just as ISIS is using oil to fund its military ops. ISIS and the AXIS powers had more in come: All were exclusively men's clubs at the top, who view women as play things, and all wanted power for the few over the many. The Nazis wanted compliant Aryan women as breeders, the Japanese wanted conquered women as sex slaves - or just raped them outright. ISIS enslaves, rapes and sells young girls. In the end, the leaders of all these movements live in privilege - ISIS commanders live in the top hotels in cities like Mosul and have their pick of the prettiest sex slaves.

Religion is the propaganda by which all of these movements sell the masses on their cause. In the case of ISIS, an extreme form of Islam almost unknown to Muslims is used to make the movement seem powerful, attractive, something the West doesn't understand or know how to contain, so it attracts the alienated, romantics, or those who think they can ride its power to personal gain. Not all Nazis were true believers. A lot of them went along for the ride, to gain position or wealth. ISIS appears to be no different. In the end, it is land-based and chaotic, and as some have observed, we tend to see it act like it did last night when it is suffering setbacks on the battlefield it would hope we don't notice.

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Dagger, I mostly agree with your post but unlike the case in WW2, we are no longer protected from enemies by the Atlantic and Pacific oceans which are no longer barriers to those who wish us harm.

There were lots of collaborators and threats in WW2 right here. We interned Germans and Japanese out of fear they would be Fifth Columnists. In WW1, German agents engaged in sabotage in the US, mainly against munitions factories supplying the French and British. There was lots of paranoia about Japanese attacks against the US during WW2, the fact none came doesn't mean people weren't fearful. In fact, I'd go as far to say the risk of being killed or hurt today in this country from ISIS isn't terribly greater than the threat we perceived in 1939 and might have faced had the war ended in 1947 or 1950 instead of 1945. The Germans, remember, had the most advanced rocketry, and Hitler certainly envisioned using intercontinental missiles to attack the eastern half of North America. I am not particular concerned about ISIS getting its hands on ICBMs.

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