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Malcolm

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"I've never claimed to be wealthy let alone very wealthy, but according to the new federal government I'm "rich". Sadly, the reality is that I'm not wealthy and likely never will be, but under the proposed changes to the tax code I'll be taxed as if I am."

The perfect target.

We talk about money and physical possessions as if they're the only measure of wealth. In fact, without your good health, all that 'stuff' you hold to as being important to who you are is absolutely meaningless. Sooner, or later all sick men come to appreciate their mortality, which can be one of the most revealing moments in a persons life. Most will fully understand just how 'wealthy' the healthy guy is regardless of status, how wealthy he really was when his day was consumed by shallow pursuits and concerns respecting the frivolous nature of his previous quest for pretend wealth actually was and how important real things like ‘family’ are.

A very accurate statement, wealth can be measured in many ways, but I thought we were talking about money and taxes.

I agree with Rich. There is no pension. The big money just arrived recently, over 50% of our income gets plowed into savings, the rest split between the mortgage and living expenses. There are no tax shelters short of the RRSP. Our ability to save and pay down debt has just been reduced. In BC they raised the provincial tax by 2% over 150 last year, now another 4% by the feds, it does wear you down.

Yes Mitch, we are not living on craft dinner, life is good. But earned money is just that, earned. When you are constantly targeted to give more it tweaks a part of the brain.

Like I said, I wonder how much someone would have to have in the bank to have the same retirement funds that a higher level government employees pension would provide. You know, the guys that are telling me I'm rich.

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Some clever politician came up with the mantra of "death and taxes" equating the act of God with taxation! No matter how we look at it, Canadians are taxed too much, between income tax, property tax, sales tax, land transfer tax (this one's really special!), all amount to well over 50%. Governments' focus of any party should be on lowering taxes for ALL, not taking from a smaller group and giving it to a larger group. And more money for ALL translates in more spending, more investments, more jobs, more economic growth and in turn more taxes.

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Thou shall not covert thy neighbours goods.

Render unto Ceaser that which is Ceaser, and unto God that which is God.

"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" - Matthew 19:24 ;)

But IAC, as already noted here, real wealth is our time on this rock, not whatever we accumulated from it - clocks and calendars measure it, but we don't ever know what our 'account balance' is, so spend it wisely :whistling:

Cheers, IFG :b:

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Hi Kip,

Federal just-about-anybody.

Department? - Just about any of them. ESPECIALLY those involved with or elected by taxpayers. (Politicians topping the list.)

Put it this way - if your pension is indexed then you now have a gold-plated pension. You may not think so but your pension is still far better than the vast majority of the rest of your fellow Canadians.

OK...so you are including those of us that served in the Forces....

When I retired after 28 years of service as a pilot my pension was about 1/3 of that of an airline pilot who retired with nearly the same amount of "time in."

When I went airline flying my pay jumped almost 50% higher than I was getting in the Forces.

Yes, my "Federal" pension is indexed, now.....(it indexes when your age and "time in service" equals 85) but it is still lower than any airline pension (AC) is granting now even after the turmoil AC went through.( $$$$ based on 28 years of service)

I went airlines because it was easier flying and more money but I was forced out at 60 so I only had 15 years in. My airline pension, (which is non-indexed), is about 40 % lower than my Mil pension (indexing included).

Gold plated??? I think not... but a few business ventures on the side, some wise investing, and the lack of any outstanding debts does leave me feeling pretty comfortable :biggrin1:

I agree on MPs (Feds)though.....a buddy of mine who I flew with in the Forces ended up as an MP from Edmonton.....he retired because he knew Harper was doomed. I looked up his pension.............10 years as an MP = a pension of $53,250 and indexing.....that is what I would call gold-plated :blush::blush:

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Why presume that flat tax has to be as high as 50%? More like 20%. And those with lower income pay less than now, because under a fair system the exemption would be a much more realistic and higher number, therefore taxes would be lower. Whatever the amount, is the amount and government spending should follow the income, unless of course the government can generate income other than taxes which it should. Whatever the case, those that earn more should not be taxed a higher rate because there is no legal or moral justification for it.

And for the record, the so called "rich" do stimulate the economy just as much if not more than the spending of the lower income earners. They create jobs especially in small businesses. To give more than the required taxes should be voluntary as many wealthy people do by donating lots of money. To punish the so called "rich" by the virtue of our vote is wrong. This system has come to be and endured because the majority benefit from it, but majority is not always right.

I thought you were a businessman, my dear MD.

How could a system with the tax rate in the lowest bracket (federal + provincial[Ont]) at 20.5% be supported if everyone paid only 20%?

I have already pointed out the moral justification for a higher tax for higher income. After basic expenses, and letting them live at a much higher level than a lower income person, the higher income earner, today, has multiple times the disposable income, after taxes, of a lower income earner. As IFG has said, this is much more complex than just pulling numbers out of the air.

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It is as complex as one wishes to make it. However the simple fact is that there is no justification for taxing one group higher just because the majority who earn less thinks it's ok, period. The minimum basic expenditure should be exempted from taxes, after which a flat percentage is applied to anything more. More disposable income or not, it is up to the individual to invest it, spend it, donate it, etc. You are entering the argument with the presumption that a certain amount of money needs to be generated through taxes, and that is a wrong premise. Governments should create sources of income other than just taxes.

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Interesting points made re Keynesian economics vs. policies of cutbacks & austerity:

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/its-official-austerity-economics-doesnt-work

Interesting article Don. I noticed that in his analysis the author completely ignores the accumulated debt that deficit spending causes. Eventually the piper needs to be paid.

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Hi Homerun; Inderstand you point for sure but I wonder if we tend to think of the national debt in personal terms, with, in turn, tends to put such obligation on our individual "time scales", so to speak, when in reality a nation is " in perpetuity". That's not to say there isn't a piper in the wings, waiting with the clipboard of final accounts but it does mean that financing a country's debts is not the same as flinching and managing personal debt.

The other aspect, or the other side of this thinking is, where would any of us be without the ability to borrow on a time scale appropriate to our own time period and ability to pay? We simply couldn't buy our homes and cars.

As I mentioned in a post a while back, wages have been downloaded onto the individual via low interest rates which permits the financing of both big and small spending decisions st the personal level. That piper is still playing. But to me anyway, (and I believe in debt hat is both manageable and rewarding), I think the notion of retiring a nation's debt is folly and more a cause of recessionary risk than spending at reasonable and sustainable numbers. What do both people and countries do when they get out of debt? Pay cash for everything? ;-)

Kicking the can of big orchard down the road fulfils more than the "I want it now" psychological state of mind that our economy nurtures. It permits large scale management of a country's obligations. The problem occurs when investment is driven not be need but gradually by addiction (in government AND the population), enabled by that self-same nurturing!

In practical terms, (meaning a reference to the now ex-administration of Steven Harper), the conservative tendency to eschew spending as though it were a moral and not an economic matter was keeping the country from progressing.

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Hi Homerun; Understand your point for sure but I wonder if we tend to think of the national debt in personal terms, which in turn, tends to put such obligation on our individual "time scales", so to speak, when in reality a nation is " in perpetuity". That's not to say there isn't a piper in the wings, waiting with the clipboard of final accounts but it does mean that financing a country's debts is not the same as financing and managing personal debt. We taught our kids how to borrow to establish a credit rating necessary for functioning in modern western economy. They are fastidious regarding the management and retiring the debt including paying the cards off each month? Those are different behaviours and requirements than dealing with a nation's debts.

The other aspect, or the other side of this thinking is, where would any of us be without the ability to borrow on a time scale appropriate to our own time period and ability to pay? We simply couldn't buy our homes and cars. I think the same applies to countries but not on a scale that is familiar. To me, there is more politics than economics in this basic misapprehension of debt.

As I mentioned in a post a while back, the "achievement" of higher wages has been downloaded onto the individual via low interest rates and borrowing which permits the financing of both big and small spending decisions at the personal level. That piper is still playing. But to me anyway, (and I believe in debt that is both manageable and rewarding), I think the notion of retiring a nation's debt is folly and more a cause of recessionary risk than spending at reasonable and sustainable numbers. What do both people and countries do when they get out of debt? Pay cash for everything? Save for the rainy day? Give tax breaks? Finance Private entreprise? Perhaps, but emergent and legitimate needs can require cash that can only be obtained by debt financing.

Kicking the can of big obligations down the road fulfils more than the "I want it now" psychological state of mind that our economy nurtures. It permits large scale management of a country's obligations. The problem occurs when investment is driven not by need but gradually by addiction (in government AND the population), enabled by that self-same nurturing!

In practical terms, (meaning a reference to the now ex-administration of Steven Harper), the conservative tendency to eschew spending as though it were a moral and not an economic matter was keeping the country from progressing.

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If I may take this in a related direction.

When it comes to debt, why does it matter? Who is it owed to? And more importantly, we here all the time that money is just a concept, so isn't it the same with debt?

Global debt has risen to approx. $200 TRILLION dollars...

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2015/feb/05/global-debt-has-grown-by-57-trillion-in-seven-years-following-the-financial-crisis

Who holds this debt? Everybody owes everyone else, it's almost a moot point, isn't it?

And going back to the 'Bankster' issue, isn't this debt just a way of controlling populations?

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“And going back to the 'Bankster' issue, isn't this debt just a way of controlling populations?”

Unlike my Country, I don't expect my physical form to be perpetual, which means I have to face and feel the effects of my personal debt to GIP (gross individual product) choices every day during my short stay. When a certain Liberal Government back in the sixties began to pile on debt to serve the leftist’s social agenda they were ensuring following generations would be forced to pay for the sins of their fathers through taxation thus ensuring the individual wouldn’t be the sole beneficiary of the product of his labour as I think the BNA Act intended. From my pov it appears the collective was placed on a path designed by banksters which intends to ‘ease’ the commoners like animals to slaughter into indentured servitude, a form of slavery, for the duration of their adult lives. The sham if you will has worked very well for the 1%ers, probably because we’re fooled by the openly democratic look of the entire process.

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And on the subject of election promises and possible additonal tax revenue. It may take longer than the promised "right away".

Colorado official warns Trudeau: legalizing pot 'harder to implement than you think'

In this June 26, 2015 file photo, different varieties of marijuana flowers are displayed at medical marijuana dispensary Kaya Shack in Portland, Ore. (AP/Gosia Wozniacka, File)


Laura Kane, The Canadian Press
Published Sunday, October 25, 2015 7:27AM EDT

VANCOUVER -- A Colorado official has some sobering words of advice for Justin Trudeau if he fulfills his promise to legalize pot in Canada.

"It's going to be a lot harder to implement than you think. It's going to take a lot longer to do it. And it's going to cost more than you think," said Lewis Koski, director of the state's Marijuana Enforcement Division.

Colorado is one of four U.S. states to fully legalize recreational bud. Their challenges -- including how to regulate edibles like brownies and cookies and a rise in drug-impaired driving -- could be instructive for Canada's incoming prime minister.

Among the questions Trudeau's government could grapple with are whether to allow people to grow pot at home or buy it in stores, and how much sales tax to charge.

In Colorado, adults over 21 can grow up to six plants at home, while those who buy recreational weed in stores pay 25 per cent sales tax on top of the regular 2.9 per cent sales tax.

The state has collected $141 million in taxes since storefront sales began in January 2014. But a portion of the tax earmarked for school construction projects has fallen short of a $40-million goal.

There's also the matter of how to regulate edible products, which often take the form of sweet treats that appeal to children or are so potent that adults easily overindulge.

Two suicides and a murder committed by people who consumed edibles have caused alarm in Colorado. The state introduced new rules in February to require more explicit warnings on labels and offer companies incentives to produce lower-potency goods.

In Washington, nearly half of marijuana poisoning calls last year involved children. Packages on pot products can't use cartoon characters or bright colours, and must clearly mark each 10-milligram serving of THC, the chemical in pot that makes users feel high.

"It can't be especially appealing to children, which is admittedly a bit subjective. So each one of those products is actually submitted for review prior to going on the shelves," said Mikhail Carpenter of the Washington State Liquor and Cannabis Board.

Another area Canada will need to study is drug-impaired driving. While fatal crashes in Washington only increased slightly after legalization, the percentage of drivers involved in those crashes who tested positive for THC doubled -- to 12 per cent in 2014 from 6 per cent in 2010.

There is no approved breath or saliva test in the U.S. or Canada to determine if someone recently consumed marijuana. In Washington, a blood test is the best available method to measure THC levels. The state's maximum is five nanograms of THC per millilitre of blood.

Washington police must obtain a judge-approved search warrant before bringing a driver to hospital for a blood test -- a process that can take a couple hours. While marijuana remnants can stay in a person's system for days, active THC dissipates rapidly.

"That's why in a general traffic-stop situation, where say a person was smoking it as they were driving down the road, there's a time aspect where we want to try to get the test done as soon as possible," said Washington State Patrol Sgt. Brandon Villanti.

But questions remain about whether every person with active THC in their system is actually impaired by the drug. Lawyer John Conroy said medical patients who regularly use marijuana do not get high.

"Just measuring nanograms in your blood doesn't do it. That's what they do in Washington state and you're presumed to be impaired and it's irrebuttable."

Alaska and Oregon legalized pot last year and are in the midst of crafting new rules. Cynthia Franklin, director of Alaska's Alcoholic Beverage and Marijuana Control Boards, said lawmakers are under pressure to meet tight timelines and begin issuing licences in May.

"It's a wild ride, and we've been through a lot of loops and twirls and stomach-churning drops," she said.

Representatives from all four states stressed the importance of public engagement. Oregon recently adopted its temporary requirements for marijuana licensees after a robust community debate.

"We don't have a bunch of controversy around our rules because we've been transparent and open," said Rob Patridge, chair of the Oregon Liquor Control Commission.

Patridge, also a district attorney, estimated about 75 per cent of medical marijuana grown in the state is currently going into the black market or being exported.

"We're hoping that the regulatory environment that we've put in place will attract those who want to participate in a legal market," he said.

"However, Oregon is way over-producing for its current population that could partake in marijuana. So, unless (legalization) is done on a nationwide level, we are certainly going to continue to have significant black market problems."

And if Trudeau wants to learn from Oregon, Patridge said he would welcome a visit.

"Tell him our door is open to him. We're happy to share with our neighbours to the north

Another Article on the subject can be found at: http://globalnews.ca/news/2297826/its-a-wild-ride-colorado-alaska-officials-offer-advice-to-trudeau-on-legalizing-pot/

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Ever wonder why the government hasn’t required people to lock medicine cabinets to protect children?

People have been getting along quite well consuming all forms of pot for a very long time now. The Government has stood opposed, but now propose to make things better / safer for consumers through regulatory oversight. That sounds like a very expensive idea and being the program will be government run, the process is guaranteed to be very inefficient too. I’m hoping Trudeau is a little more understanding and progressive than those that believe government has a Right to a piece of anything that goes on in this land. The underground economy tells us people feel the same way and I doubt the situation is going to be any different when it comes to pot. Regulation will necessitate the creation and attachment of a new regulatory body to the public purse that’s staffed by an army of expensive and largely unproductive government employees.

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Ever wonder why the government hasn’t required people to lock medicine cabinets to protect children?

People have been getting along quite well consuming all forms of pot for a very long time now. The Government has stood opposed, but now propose to make things better / safer for consumers through regulatory oversight. That sounds like a very expensive idea and being the program will be government run, the process is guaranteed to be very inefficient too. I’m hoping Trudeau is a little more understanding and progressive than those that believe government has a Right to a piece of anything that goes on in this land. The underground economy tells us people feel the same way and I doubt the situation is going to be any different when it comes to pot. Regulation will necessitate the creation and attachment of a new regulatory body to the public purse that’s staffed by an army of expensive and largely unproductive government employees.

Hey !!! Why is marijuana called "pot" ???

Well here ya go..............some useless trivia for the masses as well as all those that are, or want to be, "pot-heads" ............. :biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2: !!!!

The nickname Pot comes from the Spanish word Potiguaya, which means Marijuana Leaves. It’s a Mexican-Spanish word that is a contraction of potación de guaya, which referred to an alcoholic drink made of marijuana leaves soaked in brandy or wine. The name became popular in the United States in the late 1930s and early 1940s.

You're welcome :checkmark::biggrin1:

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Defcon, you say "People have been getting along quite well consuming all forms of pot for a very long time now"..... I think you should rather say "Some People" and some of those (the stupid percentage) did cause problems with children and others eating their baked goods. Now that the number of people will increase, so will the stupid percentage numbers and we can therefore look forward to many more incidents.

My concern does seem to be valid. "In Washington, nearly half of marijuana poisoning calls last year involved children. Packages on pot products can’t use cartoon characters or bright colours, and must clearly mark each 10-milligram serving of THC, the chemical in pot that makes users feel high."

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There's a good, government produced movie you should see FCPA... I can't remember what it was called when it was produced, but it became known as "Reefer Madness".

I think you'd like it.

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If you mean the ones produced in the 1930s, they are quite over the top.

The one you refer to, which government?

I still think like with any drug, prescription, alcohol, tobacco we need to do everything we can to keep it out of the hands of children. Locking up prescription drugs, alcohol and marijuana in your home is not really a bad idea. Here is a goto for an NBC report that looks into this problem:

http://www.today.com/parents/prescription-drug-abuse-part-secret-life-teens-1D80157066

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I wonder if we tend to think of the national debt in personal terms, which in turn, tends to put such obligation on our individual "time scales", so to speak, when in reality a nation is " in perpetuity". That's not to say there isn't a piper in the wings, waiting with the clipboard of final accounts but it does mean that financing a country's debts is not the same as financing and managing personal debt. We taught our kids how to borrow to establish a credit rating necessary for functioning in modern western economy. They are fastidious regarding the management and retiring the debt including paying the cards off each month? Those are different behaviours and requirements than dealing with a nation's debts.

The other aspect, or the other side of this thinking is, where would any of us be without the ability to borrow on a time scale appropriate to our own time period and ability to pay? We simply couldn't buy our homes and cars. I think the same applies to countries but not on a scale that is familiar. To me, there is more politics than economics in this basic misapprehension of debt.

Hi Don,

Not all debt is equal. Money used to finance infrastructure is going to give benefits for a extended period of time. Take a bridge for example. If an engineering firm determines a bridge will have a life of 100 years once built, why would you want to pay that outright? In a certain manner, you would be taking away funds from today's society to finance infrastructure that will be used for years after many of the original citizens who paid the said bridge are probably dead. Financing the project distributes costs in time, much like an amortization charge in a business.

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Speaking of pot I have a stupid question! At an age when it is a known medical fact that marijuana is much more potent and much more harmful than it ever was before and DUI is such a big and rising concern, why are politician who know little on the subject so determined to legalize it? Is it simply the green light of greed to capitalize on taxes? What's next? Legalizing prostitution, child labor, polygamy, incest, as long as they pay the taxes?!

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There's a good, government produced movie you should see FCPA... I can't remember what it was called when it was produced, but it became known as "Reefer Madness".

I think you'd like it.

Here is the movie you referenced...On You Tube...1:08 hrs long

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Speaking of pot I have a stupid question! At an age when it is a known medical fact that marijuana is much more potent and much more harmful than it ever was before and DUI is such a big and rising concern, why are politician who know little on the subject so determined to legalize it? Is it simply the green light of greed to capitalize on taxes? What's next? Legalizing prostitution, child labor, polygamy, incest, as long as they pay the taxes?!

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/10/25/u-s-states-with-legal-pot-grapple-with-edible-treats-impaired-driving_n_8382506.html

"There's also the matter of how to regulate edible products, which often take the form of sweet treats that appeal to children or are so potent that adults easily overindulge.

Two suicides and a murder committed by people who consumed edibles have caused alarm in Colorado. The state introduced new rules in February to require more explicit warnings on labels and offer companies incentives to produce lower-potency goods.

In Washington, nearly half of marijuana poisoning calls last year involved children. Packages on pot products can't use cartoon characters or bright colours, and must clearly mark each 10-milligram serving of THC, the chemical in pot that makes users feel high.

"It can't be especially appealing to children, which is admittedly a bit subjective. So each one of those products is actually submitted for review prior to going on the shelves," said Mikhail Carpenter of the Washington State Liquor and Cannabis Board.

Another area Canada will need to study is drug-impaired driving. While fatal crashes in Washington only increased slightly after legalization, the percentage of drivers involved in those crashes who tested positive for THC doubled — to 12 per cent in 2014 from 6 per cent in 2010."

From the same article;

"There is no approved breath or saliva test in the U.S. or Canada to determine if someone recently consumed marijuana. In Washington, a blood test is the best available method to measure THC levels. The state's maximum is five nanograms of THC per millilitre of blood.

Washington police must obtain a judge-approved search warrant before bringing a driver to hospital for a blood test — a process that can take a couple hours. While marijuana remnants can stay in a person's system for days, active THC dissipates rapidly."

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http://denver.cbslocal.com/2015/04/03/hash-explosions-prompt-proposed-changes-in-legal-pot-states/

DENVER (AP) — Alarmed by a rash of explosions and injuries caused when amateurs make hash, lawmakers in Colorado and Washington are considering spelling out what’s allowed when it comes to making the concentrated marijuana at home.

The proposals came after an increase in home fires and blasts linked to homemade hash, concentrated marijuana that can be inhaled or eaten.In Colorado, at least 30 people were injured last year in 32 butane explosions involving hash oil — nearly three times the number reported throughout 2013, according to officials with the Rocky Mountain High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area, a state-federal enforcement program.

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Odd Byproduct of Legal Marijuana: Homes That Blow Up

DENVER — When Colorado legalized marijuana two years ago, nobody was quite ready for the problem of exploding houses. But that is exactly what firefighters, courts and lawmakers across the state are confronting these days: amateur marijuana alchemists who are turning their kitchens and basements into “Breaking Bad”-style laboratories, using flammable chemicals to extract potent drops of a marijuana concentrate commonly called hash oil, and sometimes accidentally blowing up their homes and lighting themselves on fire in the process.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/18/us/odd-byproduct-of-legal-marijuana-homes-blow-up.html?_r=0

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Don't see much of a problem here. Darwinian theory at work. It's important that the whole house comes down in the explosion, though, so that no firefighters are injured.

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The additional risk to children is indeed a matter for concern but unless our PM designate is not a man of his word, it is too late to stop legalization (which I think is OK) but indeed time to educate the masses re use, control etc. However since it is the use of prescription drugs by teens that is a "current and real" problem, I suggest we should put off any "pot" worries for now and educate everyone instead on the safe storage and use of prescription drugs.

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