Culture Or Gun Driven Or Perhaps Culture And Gun Driven?

[Guest]

This fits here but perhaps the title should be "Feet of Clay"

Chris Kyle, ‘American Sniper,’ lied about his military records

By Chris Jancelewicz National Online Reporter, Entertainment  Global News

 

 

 

 

 

<img class="story-img" src="https://shawglobalnews.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/chris-kyle.jpg?quality=70&strip=all&w=282&h=188&crop=1" alt="Chris Kyle, 'American Sniper'" />;

 

 

Chris Kyle, the deadliest sniper in American military history (famously played by Bradley Cooper in movie American Sniper), made a lot of claims about his time in the military.

While his most impressive feat goes undisputed — he’s credited with a monstrous 160 confirmed kills — many of Kyle’s other claims have been proven dubious, if not outright false.

READ MORE: Ex-Marine guilty of murder in American Sniper trial faces life sentence

Kyle, who was killed by a former Marine suffering from PTSD in 2013, said that during his tenure in the military, he punched former governor Jesse Ventura in the face, killed dozens of looters during Hurricane Katrina from atop the Superdome and found chemical weapons in Iraq, among other tales. He recounts his experiences in the book American Sniper, which inspired the film.

Each of the stories is, at very least, impossible to prove, and are widely considered to be embellishments. (Ventura was awarded $1.8 million by an appeals court after he filed a defamation suit against Kyle, which is pretty damning.)

Now new information has come out suggesting that Kyle lied about his military records, specifically medals he was awarded. He claimed to have been awarded two Silver Stars and five Bronze Stars for valour during his time as a Navy SEAL, but that, it turns out, is also false.

Internal Navy documents reveal that Kyle actually received one Silver Star and three Bronze Stars for valour.

READ MORE: Chris Kyle, slain Navy SEAL who wrote American Sniper, had another book in the works

According to The Intercept, Kyle was warned at least once before American Sniper was published that its description of his medal count was inaccurate, said one Navy officer to the publication (who asked to remain anonymous because he was not authorized to speak about the case).

In addition, as his American Sniper manuscript was being distributed among SEALs, one of his former commanders advised Kyle that his multiple Silver Stars claim wasn’t correct, and he should fix it before his book was published. He did not.

The United States considers falsifying claims of military decorations a crime, and is outlined in the Stolen Valor Act of 2013.

To read the full exposé, head over to The Intercept.

[Wolfhunter]

Way past time to get started on this. Impounding rifles from farms in rural Alberta is simply not (as) effective...

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/06/03/toronto-police-chief-mark-saunders-talks-about-project-sizzle

[DEFCON]

Malcolm

The other night FOX reported that Kyle's discharge document indicates he actually earned two silvers and one more bronze star than was originally claimed.

 

[DEFCON]

Anti gang work is a dirty business that can serve the public interest quite well. It's just too bad the government doesn't have the guts to legislate an effective deterrent, one that would discourage membership in the first place.

[IFG]

On ‎2016‎-‎06‎-‎03 at 5:07 PM, DEFCON said:

Malcolm

The other night FOX reported that Kyle's discharge document indicates he actually earned two silvers and one more bronze star than was originally claimed.

Defcon - Apparently Faux News had no inclination to read the whole story, and embedded links, which dealt with the discrepancy:
 

Quote

 

.... According to two current Navy officials, inaccurate information about Kyle’s awards is also contained in his separation document, known in the military as a DD214, which usually reflects a veteran’s official service record. Kyle’s DD214 form, which lists two Silver Stars and six Bronze Stars with Valor among his decorations, also differs from the number of Bronze Stars with Valor — five — that Kyle listed in his book.

The Navy provided records for one Silver Star and three Bronze Stars with Valor after The Intercept requested all documentation related to Kyle’s medals. The Navy Department Awards System maintains records of the official awards. Navy officials could not say why Kyle’s separation papers contained inaccurate information about his medals, but one official described Kyle as a “decorated war hero” and questioned the “motivations” of looking into Kyle’s account.

“The Navy considers the individual service member’s official military personnel file and our central official awards records to be the authoritative sources for verifying entitlement to decorations and awards,” said Cullen James, a spokesperson for the Navy Personnel Command, in a statement emailed to The Intercept. “The form DD214 is generated locally at the command where the service member is separated. Although the information on the DD214 should match the official records, the process involves people and inevitably some errors may occur.” ....

 

Cheers, IFG

[Wolfhunter]

No Silver Star for these guys…

 

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/06/04/10-year-one-of-several-victims-in-violent-toronto-night

[J.O.]

On June 3, 2016 at 2:22 PM, DEFCON said:

Anti gang work is a dirty business that can serve the public interest quite well. It's just too bad the government doesn't have the guts to legislate an effective deterrent, one that would discourage membership in the first place.

The notion that laws are an effective deterrent in the case of gangs is, quite frankly, nothing more than utter folly.

[Wolfhunter]

I don’t live in Toronto, in fact, I’m about half a continent away. Still, the situation there irks me to no end. I guess you could say it’s none of my business, but it irks me non the less. There have been a few rancorous threads here of late pitting liberals against conservatives, people getting offended etc etc. Clearly, they’re not offended enough.

 

Why not confront the threat directly? Why not call it what it is as opposed to calling it what it’s not? Why not regulations with sharp teeth? Seriously now, try to guess how much I care about making O’ Canada gender neutral. 

 

Toronto has a problem with black thugs in black street gangs using illegal weapons illegally for illegal purposes. So, they are not disaffected African Canadian youth that need more sports facilities. In fact, most of these clowns weren’t born in Africa, they’ve never been to Africa, and if I had my way, they would be too old and feeble to go there when they got out of jail. Calling them “African Canadians” is actually an insult to African Canadians… ask someone who actually was born there. So really, it’s just PC code for black, right? 

 

Why the hesitation to “close with and engage”. This is a problem worthy of being grabbed by the throat and choked, not just to submission, not to surrender, but to utter, total and complete destruction. We don’t need more regulation, if you think these guys have a firearms license, registered weapons and permits to carry, squawk ident.

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

[DEFCON]

"According to two current Navy officials"

It would be nice to know what the real story is and perhaps the information provided by you is accurate IFG, but it's difficult to accept it as fact when it's premise is based on unsubstantiated quotes. 

[DEFCON]

Nicely stated Wolfhunter.

 

[IFG]

3 hours ago, DEFCON said:

"According to two current Navy officials"

It would be nice to know what the real story is and perhaps the information provided by you is accurate IFG, but it's difficult to accept it as fact when it's premise is based on unsubstantiated quotes. 

Good grief, Defcon, maybe those two "current NAVY officials", referred to at the beginning of my quote, did not want their names published, I don't know, Cullen James, a spokesperson for the Navy Personnel Command, is quoted and attributed, and all the relevant supporting documents are linked in the article.

Cheers, IFG

[DEFCON]

IFG

"said Cullen James, a spokesperson for the Navy Personnel Command ... "Although the information on the DD214 should match the official records, the process involves people and inevitably some errors may occur.” ...."

As far as I can see, we don't have the other document record Cullen speaks of and maybe I'm wrong, but wouldn't the 'DD214' document form part of the official record too?

While I have acknowledged the FOX report may too be factually incorrect, I wouldn't want to rely on the veracity of another media outlet's report that's qualified by information obtained from "two current Navy officials" either.    

There are currently three 'medal' stories are in circulation, Kyle's own and two other versions that emanate from the Navy's own records. Knowing 'people are involved' at all levels of the record keeping process, can we say with absolute certainty at this time that any of the three official' versions of the story in hand are in fact accurate?

Regardless, I doubt anyone would claim that Kyle was anything but an extraordinary soldier that did his level best for team & Country.

Being Kyle's a murder victim and unable to defend his own name and reputation, wouldn't it be appropriate for the government to clear the air at this time and end the media and public speculation?

 

 

 

 

 

     

[Wolfhunter]

Stars issued for service in classified operations may very well be “counted” a bit differently and slow to be publicly acknowledged i.e, we weren’t even there. Not surprising at all that the numbers are skewed. Don't expect clarification any time soon.

[IFG]

6 hours ago, Wolfhunter said:

Stars issued for service in classified operations may very well be “counted” a bit differently and slow to be publicly acknowledged i.e, we weren’t even there. Not surprising at all that the numbers are skewed. Don't expect clarification any time soon.

Could be, Wolfhunter. that goes way beyond my knowledge about military honors.  I'm curious, tho' about how the Services (& particularly combat vets themselves) can keep the lid on stolen valor if there is no verification of earned decorations from the official source.

9 hours ago, DEFCON said:

There are currently three 'medal' stories are in circulation, Kyle's own and two other versions that emanate from the Navy's own records. Knowing 'people are involved' at all levels of the record keeping process, can we say with absolute certainty at this time that any of the three official' versions of the story in hand are in fact accurate?

Regardless, I doubt anyone would claim that Kyle was anything but an extraordinary soldier that did his level best for team & Country.

Being Kyle's a murder victim and unable to defend his own name and reputation, wouldn't it be appropriate for the government to clear the air at this time and end the media and public speculation?

Three stories, Defcon, but only one of them takes some pains to account for the other two.

As for speculation? I don't think anybody wants to tear down a hero, least of all myself. But Kyle seems to have been a very complex individual. Clearly an exceptional warrior, lots of good works beyond that.

But, he also clearly sought the hero's mantle, and it is still being monetized to this day. When one seeks acclaim, one might expect some scrutiny.

And, there are questions about some of his stories, including one litigated that's brought a 7-figure libel judgement against him (the Jesse Ventura tale, under appeal).

I think the key is to keep in mind the whole man. He became a fairly public figure, but while examining  any possible shortcomings, there's still a lot to respect and admire.

 Cheers, IFG

[dagger]

Although the killer is a Muslim, the motive appears to be homophobia. The father of the killer says his son saw two gay men kissing on TV two months ago and it made him very angry.

My question is how a country can allow the sale of weapons like assault rifles where someone can go into a public place and kill 50 and injure another 52. One weapon. I am not against hunting rifles or even some handgun possession but the AK-47 type of weapon had no place outside of the military or (maybe) SWAT police team.

[DEFCON]

Dagger

Reports claim he had an auto-loading handgun and rifle. The rifle is said to have been a ,223 calibre AR - 15 which is typically used for groundhog / coyote hunting. The AR 15 is only a hunting rifle packaged to look like a military assault weapon.

Truth is, while the AR 15 isn't much of a hunting rifle because of its design, its assault weapon like looks may be motivating non-hunting wannabe tough-guys to purchase them? It sounds a little nuts too, but maybe a ban on the manufacture of military like looking weapons would help a tiny bit?

[boestar]

Go to the range on any given day and there is usually a few people that have run of the mill rifles with "body kits" installed to make them look like assault weapons.  The looks do not make the gun

 

[mo32a]

3 hours ago, DEFCON said:

Dagger

Reports claim he had an auto-loading handgun and rifle. The rifle is said to have been a ,223 calibre AR - 15 which is typically used for groundhog / coyote hunting. The AR 15 is only a hunting rifle packaged to look like a military assault weapon.

Truth is, while the AR 15 isn't much of a hunting rifle because of its design, its assault weapon like looks may be motivating non-hunting wannabe tough-guys to purchase them? It sounds a little nuts too, but maybe a ban on the manufacture of military like looking weapons would help a tiny bit?

The AR15 can be made to auto fire in a matter of a minute or two, he also had extended mags and lots of them. Hunting rifle my ass.

[DEFCON]

Yes, I agree mo32a; as I said, the AR is a lousy excuse for a hunting rife, but because of it's style, not the working components.

Any reasonably competent gunsmith and other not so qualified persons can turn most civilian autoloaders into machine guns, but that wouldn't make this class of weaponry any more useful to the mass murder for a few reasons; even the military got rid of the spray feature on their field rifles.

The US could maybe follow the Canadian lead and move to restrict, or prohibit the possession of ALL center-fire ammunition clips holding more than five rounds, define minimum barrel lengths for ALL firearms and introduce any number of other limitations without compromising the provisions of the Second Amendment if they really wanted to start to make a difference.

 

 

[mo32a]

^Although it makes perfect sense to us, it is just not going to happen. Every American wants to be able to buy a bazooka if he feels the need for it.

I guess because we didn't grow up with the wild west scenario in our history we just don't feel the need to be an armed militia, we, for the most part, let the police and military take care of that for us.

I remember a couple of years ago after another incident one of my American acquaintances bought up 9000 rounds of 9mm ammo. He and some of his friends felt that Obama, while not restricting firearms, was going to buy up all the available ammo making your guns useless. That is the mindset you are dealing with.

[DEFCON]

"I remember a couple of years ago after another incident one of my American acquaintances bought up 9000 rounds of 9mm ammo. He and some of his friends felt that Obama, while not restricting firearms, was going to buy up all the available ammo making your guns useless. That is the mindset you are dealing with."

I have American friends that share the sentiment. They too acted on the same information and accumulated large stockpiles of ammo. It's going to be one giant 4th of July styled show over there if any of their dire predictions were ever to come true.

 

 

[boestar]

I stand by my prediction that there will be an American Revolution within 10 years unless there is serious change in the US.

[DEFCON]

I think you're prediction has already gotten underway Boestar.

[boestar]

Sadly I think so too.  We best get building that wall

 

[Guest]

5 police ambushed , shot and killed in Dallas, http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/dallas-police-killed-reaction-1.3670053?cmp=rss

Gunman shoots at officer in Georgia.  http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gunman-shoots-at-georgia-officer-1.3670196?cmp=rss

Earlier in the week police shoot and kill 2

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/alton-sterling-shot-1.3669585?cmp=rss