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Culture Or Gun Driven Or Perhaps Culture And Gun Driven?


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I hope this is not the start of open warfare in our US neighbor but the following clip from a news article illustrates the enormity of the problem they are facing.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2814101/gentle-georgia-man-accused-of-using-911-to-ambush-officer/

Quote

Steven Bowers, 21, said he thought he was hearing firecrackers until a bullet ripped through the siding of his unit, whizzed by his roommate’s head, bounced off the wall and landed on a bed.

Bowers said he grabbed his own gun and looked outside when the shooting stopped. He saw the officer on the ground, but didn’t see beck until he was carried away on a stretcher with blood on his face.

 

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Speaking of "open warfare in our US neighbour", here's more insanity:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/16/opinion/missouri-the-shoot-me-state.html

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/15/missouri-joins-states-allowing-concealed-carry-without-permit.html

Quote

New York Times OpEd:

In an alarming victory for the gun lobby, Missouri’s Republican-controlled Legislature voted Wednesday to override Gov. Jay Nixon’s veto and enact a wholesale retreat from gun safety in the state.

The law will let citizens carry concealed weapons in public without a state gun permit, criminal background check or firearms training. It strips local law enforcement of its current authority to deny firearms to those guilty of domestic violence and to other high-risk individuals. And it establishes a dangerous “stand your ground” standard that will allow gun owners to shoot and claim self-defense based on their own sense of feeling threatened.

The measure has drawn no great national attention, but it certainly provides further evidence that gun safety cannot be left to state lawmakers beholden to the gun lobby. Democrats opposed to the Missouri bill called it a “perfect storm” of lowered standards for the use of deadly force and an invitation for people to be armed without responsible controls. The measure was enacted by the Republicans, despite strong public opposition and warnings about the threat to public safety from the state Police Chiefs Association. Everytown for Gun Safety, one of the groups fighting the gun lobby, noted that stand-your-ground laws result in disproportionate harm to communities of color.

Mr. Nixon, a Democrat, vetoed the measure in June, saying it would allow individuals with a criminal record to legally carry a concealed firearm even though they had been, or would have been, denied a permit under the old law’s background check. Mayors Sly James of Kansas City and Francis Slay of St. Louis warned against restricting the power of the local police to deny guns to those who commit domestic violence. They cited sharp spikes in domestic violence homicides in their cities, and they noted that the police would be left at greater risk by this bill.

Republican legislative leaders, who cut short debate on the override vote on the last day of the session, were ebullient in overriding a variety of the governor’s vetoes beyond the gun measure, including one that will force voters to show a government photo ID.

Maria Chappelle-Nadal, a lawmaker from Ferguson, which erupted in protests after the 2014 fatal police shooting of Michael Brown, an unarmed African-American teenager, warned that enacting the stand-your-ground standard would mean another “bad Samaritan like Zimmerman.” She was referring to the shooting death in Florida four years ago of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black teenager, by George Zimmerman, who used a stand-your-ground defense allowed under Florida law.

Missouri is joining 10 other states that loosened gun laws to allow concealed firearms in public without the need for a permit. Federal gun controls still require background checks on buyers, but only at federally licensed dealers. Unfortunately, there is a separate and busy uncontrolled market where buyers at gun shows and on the internet do not have to undergo background checks.

In the presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton has called for extensive gun safety measures, including a ban on the assault weapons favored by mass shooters, closing background-check loopholes, ending the gun industry’s outrageous protection from civil damage suits and denying guns to risky suspects on the government’s no-fly lists. Donald Trump, endorsed by the National Rifle Association, favors more armed civilians ready to engage in what he calls a defensive “shootout.” This is one of the most pathetic measures yet of his pandering, when he should be leading, on an issue of vital importance to the public.

 

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The gun situation over there has become so insanely stupid and contrary to the notion of civilization that it's getting really difficult to accept the nightmare as anything other than a purposeful plot of the kind that is typically attributed to conspiracy theory.

  

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The insanity has been ramping up for years. Many on the far right claim that Sandy Hook was staged.

The fear is now achieving political ends for the Republican candidate in a way unanticipated even after Bush and Mr. Romney. Over Obama's 8-year presidency, Republican intransigence has blocked all relief valves and the boiler pressure is growing; you can feel it.

If there is a "conspiracy" at all, it began with George W. Bush who, after 9/11, used the technique of scaring people into invading Iraq, hobbling civil rights, and voting for him - twice; very bad man, but a dove compared to Mr. Trump.

Today, the U.S. remains a nation gripped by irrationality and rabid fear that is now being legitimized by the Republican Party and it's presidential candidate.

Think what many will about the U.S. President, Obama provides a calming effect. Mr. Trump is intentionally doing the opposite, fanning the flames of anger and fear. He is giving tacit permission for people to believe that arming themselves with concealed weapons and "standing your ground" is a legitimate response to anything that upsets people in the moment. He is the NRA's hero and chief representative. This is looking more and more like a nation on the verge of loss-of-control.

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I agree entirely with your assessment of the Bush administration's 'techniques' to keep everyone on edge. I don't remember the numbers, but there was somewhere around sixty, or so threat alerts / elevations during the three months preceding the election and not a one following; proof of a scam involving fear ... hell yes, but some would say otherwise no matter how compelling the evidence.

I still can't blame Bush for the overall fiasco. Who knows, but I don't think he had a clue throughout until near the end of his Presidency that the Cheney gang was pulling all the strings and GWB was only there to provide cover in the form of plausible deniability.

Would sane, rational people allow America to return to the kind of lawlessness the wild west once displayed, or is a plot afoot to position the people in preparation of the big picture plan. It almost looks like the West, including Europe, is being readied for the declaration of Martial Law, but who knows why?

I feel nothing for Obama. I see a white guy with a tan, not an African American and I resent him for his display of overt racism. I think he's lost when it comes to leadership and I don't care for his use of 'Executive Orders' to advance his agenda; the Democrats controlled both Houses of Congress for a substantial period and they blew it all collectively. Complaining about the Congress after the fact and still blaming Bush for the mess he left eight years after the fact just doesn't make the grade.

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4 hours ago, DEFCON said:

The gun situation over there has become so insanely stupid and contrary to the notion of civilization that it's getting really difficult to accept the nightmare as anything other than a purposeful plot of the kind that is typically attributed to conspiracy theory.

  

Just remember, America can't be truly free until every last schizophrenic and every one of Isis's Twitter followers has enough firepower to shoot down helicopter gunships with ease.

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Defcon:

Take a look back to Regan and his use of Executive Orders.  Sometimes you have to actually exert the power of office to get anything done.  Obama was a product of the republican party stonewalling his every move. despite that I think he has done an excellent job.  Certainly better then his predecessor.

 

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" I feel nothing for Obama. I see a white guy with a tan, not an African American and I resent him for his display of overt racism."

What!!? ". . . white guy with a tan"? ". . . not an African American", " . .  . his overt racism."!?

Obama's racism . . .?

Wow.

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.

Just three percent of adults own half of America’s guns

Mon Sep 19, 2016 - The Washington Post
By Christopher Ingraham  

guns1.jpg&w=1484

Just 3 percent of American adults own half of the nation's firearms, according to the results of a Harvard-Northeastern survey of 4,000 gun owners.

The survey's findings support other research showing that as overall rates of gun ownership has declined, the number of firearms in circulation has skyrocketed. The implication is that there are more guns in fewer hands than ever before. The top 3 percent of American adults own, on average, 17 guns apiece, according to the survey's estimates.

The survey is particularly useful to researchers because it asked respondents not just whether they own guns, but how many and what types of guns they own. This makes for one of the clearest pictures yet of American gun ownership, showing the concentration of most guns in the hands of a small fraction of American adults.

The study found that 22 percent of American adults say they personally own a firearm. This is lower than the percentages reported in some other recent surveys, such as those by the Pew Research Center (31 percent) and Gallup (28 percent).

Based on the percentage of people owning guns and the number of guns that respondents reported owning, the survey estimates that 265 million guns are in circulation, or more than one for every adult. This is lower than other estimates, which put the number of guns in circulation at 300 million or more.

Gun rights advocates are often skeptical of gun-ownership surveys, saying that many owners may not disclose the presence of guns to a stranger over the phone or in person. Survey researchers have generally found little evidence to support this claim. The Harvard-Northeastern survey was conducted anonymously via an online panel. The researchers told the Guardian newspaper that they did not receive any pushback from respondents about the questions, leading them to be confident in the results.

The finding that the overwhelming majority of firearms are owned by a small number of adults isn't particularly surprising. Similar patterns of concentration are seen with many other consumer goods and services, from alcohol to health care. The researchers who conducted the study say that most gun owners cite a need for protection from other people as a primary reason to own guns.

"When I look at our survey, what I see is a population that is living in fear," Deb Azrael, a Harvard researcher and one of the study's lead authors, told the nonprofit news organization the Trace. "They are buying handguns to protect themselves against bad guys, they store their guns ready-to-use because of bad guys, and they believe that their guns make them safer."

This shows a significant shift from the 1990s, when most gun owners said they owned firearms primarily for hunting and target shooting.

What Azrael and her colleagues don't know is whether owning many guns is a greater risk factor for violence, suicide or accidental injury than owning, say, one or two guns. They will be publishing their full study results in an academic journal next year

.

 

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Adding to my list of things (including guns) that I don't want to import from the US of A, sadly it appears similar groups are already here. 

 

The Aryan Circle: Dangerous white supremacist prison gang creates havoc as it moves rapidly across U.S.

 
‎Today, ‎September ‎20, ‎2016, ‏‎17 minutes ago | Dane Schiller, The New York Times

A billboard rising along Interstate 10 near Baytown, Texas, recently solicited thousands of passing motorists for help finding Robert J. Ring, an ex-convict and alleged white supremacist prison gang member who disappeared earlier this year while on parole.

“Wanted,” it read beside the giant mug shot of Ring, taken by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice.

A few months earlier, a similar billboard was used to solicit tips on the whereabouts of Danny Ray Ferguson Jr., another alleged member of the Aryan Circle prison gang.

Only two other Aryan Circle members have been the target of such a publicity push since 2012, when law enforcement agencies launched the Houston’s Most Wanted Gang Fugitive program.

Related

The billboards cast a new spotlight on the Texas-born white supremacist prison gang, which has stayed in the shadows the last few years but hasn’t gone away, experts say. And it has a hefty presence in Houston.

“They are large, they are dangerous, and they are in your neighbourhood,” said Mark Pitcavage, who monitors white supremacist gangs for the Anti-Defamation League.

The Aryan Circle is among the largest white-supremacist prison gangs in the United States, with about 1,000 to 1,500 members spread out across the U.S.

Although it is outpaced by the larger Aryan Brotherhood of Texas, the Aryan Circle is involved in an array of crimes, including drug trafficking, drug manufacturing, assault, burglary and murder.

“They are a gang made up of crooks, and that is what they do,” FBI special agent Keith Koncir said. “It is all about the green; that is the only colour they care about.”

A recent Anti-Defamation League report on white supremacist prison gangs in the United States found that the Aryan Circle has “considerable activity,” not just in Texas but also in Arkansas, Indiana, Louisiana, Missouri, New Mexico, Oklahoma and Tennessee.

It also operates to a lesser extent in other areas and is among those gangs that is just as active on the streets as behind bars, experts say. It was formed in 1985 in the Texas prison system, according to the ADL report.

“With rising numbers and an increasing geographical spread, white supremacist prison gangs have been the fastest-growing segment of the white supremacist movement in the United States in recent years, accompanied by a related rise in crime and violence,” the report states.

A recent Texas Department of Public Safety assessment also describes the gang’s operations, saying it is active in most parts of the state, with the exception of the deep South Texas-Mexico border region.

It is considered such a threat by the state prison system that all known members are automatically kept in one-man, high-security isolation cells for the duration of their sentences.

A 2016 report by a federal coalition known as the Houston High Intensity Drug Trafficking Corridor, which includes several Gulf Coast counties, said the Aryan Circle was among the most prominent gangs in the northern part of its region.

The Aryan Circle has not drawn much attention in Houston, however, since a notorious crime spree in 2007 that started when gang member Dennis Clem shot two black Houston teenagers.

It ended with Clem being shot to death after killing two police detectives — firing with a gun in each hand — at a Louisiana motel where he was hiding.

Clem’s girlfriend and accomplice, Tanya Smith, fled the motel as the detectives lay dying but was later arrested in Houston, where gang members were hiding her. She is serving two life sentences.

The Aryan Circle drew headlines again two years ago, when seven gang members and associates were convicted in the 2014 slaying in North Texas of a man who was stabbed and dismembered over a personal dispute.

Also in 2014, gang member Kevin Dwain Rickman was sentenced to two life sentences in Midland for distributing methamphetamine. As part of efforts to enhance the amount of prison time he faced, federal authorities said Rickman ordered the deaths of two men, including one whose body was placed on railroad tracks in order to make it look like a suicide.

Another Aryan Circle member was shot and wounded in July by Waco police, who were trying to round him up for a parole violation after he’d served time for counterfeiting.

Ferguson and Ring are among just four members of the Aryan Circle to make Houston’s weekly Most Wanted Gang Fugitives list, a lineup that is drawn from fugitives sought by several law-enforcement agencies.

The Most Wanted distinction means members are featured on billboards and television, and on the website stophoustongangs.org. About 80 per cent of the 227 fugitives featured so far have been captured.

Ferguson and Ring were locked away at the same time at the same Texas prison — the Ferguson Unit near Midway — but it is unclear if they were kept on the same tier.

Ferguson — who has a swastika tattoo on his neck — surrendered in Channelview within weeks of being featured on billboards in April. He was sought for violating parole after serving time for a charge of assaulting a family member.

Ferguson, 40, from Baytown, has been sent to prison at least eight times. His convictions include evading arrest, illegal possession of a weapon and drugs.

Ring, 55, of Houston, remains a fugitive for allegedly violating parole after serving time for a cocaine possession charge.

He has been to state prison from Harris County three times, all for cocaine. He also has other arrests for such charges as check forgery, theft, criminal mischief and driving under the influence.

In 1995, he was sentenced to 25 years, but he was released early on parole. He was then bounced back to a cell block a few times before again being paroled for the last time in April 2016.

At some point after that, he stopped reporting to his parole officer. His parole supervision is supposed to continue until 2023.

Two other fugitives believed to be Aryan Circle members also have landed on the billboards. John Russell Cole was sought in July 2013 for a parole violation on a burglary charge. He was captured and returned to prison. Another member, Mark Anthony Hanks, was sought in 2014 for a forgery case out of Harris County. He was captured and served five days in jail.

Despite their record for unleashing serious violence, the Aryan Circle members seem to maintain a bit of humour about themselves. Mid-level leaders are referred to as “clowns,” and the top bosses are known as “The Ugly Boys.”

Authorities contend the jargon is an attempt to speak in code that outsiders won’t understand.

The Aryan Circle also is active on social media, with members posting photos of themselves flashing hand signs as well as sharing messages such as, “Circle Forever, Forever Circle.”

And while there is plenty of rage, there are also plenty of pedestrian posts that offer no hint of racism or gang involvement. One post features the late boxer Muhammad Ali knocking out Sonny Liston, with a discussion about whether it is the most iconic sports photo ever.

Another post features a group photo of a national meeting held in August in Oklahoma. About 60 people — men and women — are shown, throwing up gang signs with a Nazi flag.

One alleged member active on social media is Jonathan Tucker Gober, 32, who was shot and wounded by Waco police in July after allegedly refusing to drop a 9mm handgun, which was loaded and cocked.

He proclaims his membership on Facebook and lists his education as “School of Hard Knocks, The University of Life.”

The gang’s members also speak bluntly about brotherhood, loyalty and white power.

“I will live and die for each and every one of you,” a member nicknamed Lightning says in an undated gang newsletter obtained by the Houston Chronicle, in which he announces he would soon be released from prison.

“And on my way out the door, I will be stomping loud and proud as I send each and every one of you Aryan soldiers.”

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While Trump is a man who encourages white supremacy/aryan thinking, the majority of U.S. citizens are not following nor do they buy his heinous, ugly, dark world view of the United States. Those who see hope in Trump but who dismiss his white supremacy ideology are still angry about globalization and free-trade deals which have since Milton Friedman's ideas first made the rounds in the mid-eighties, (and earlier for the NAFTA just "justifications" for which I recall John Crosbie announcing - the rally against NAFTA at SFU was before Crosby's stupid "Sheila-baby" comment but was still a raucous affair).

What Hillary has to do is bring those who are justifiably angry into the fold and provide for their deep anger at what the economy-for-the-rich has done to them.

Democracy is like our auto-immune system; that which keeps us healthy can, when out of control will attack us and make us ill. Democracy carries the seeds and structure of it's own demise. Free speech and free action without responsibility and accountability is democracy out of control. Donald Trump has spent five years making fools out of trusting people and a naive media afraid to whack-a-mole when they see it.

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News - whites aren't the only humans on this planet capable of expressing racist sentiments you know; l could easily fill a page here with YouTube links dedicated to black supremacists alone. I think it's time for society to get in step with the realities of equality beginning with acknowledgement of the FACT that Obama is no more a black man than he is a white. 

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On ‎2016‎-‎09‎-‎19 at 3:14 PM, Don Hudson said:

" I feel nothing for Obama. I see a white guy with a tan, not an African American and I resent him for his display of overt racism."

What!!? ". . . white guy with a tan"? ". . . not an African American", " . .  . his overt racism."!?

Obama's racism . . .?

Wow.

 

Wow x 2

 

11 hours ago, DEFCON said:

News - whites aren't the only humans on this planet capable of expressing racist sentiments you know; l could easily fill a page here with YouTube links dedicated to black supremacists alone. I think it's time for society to get in step with the realities of equality beginning with acknowledgement of the FACT that Obama is no more a black man than he is a white. 

 

Hi, Defcon - OK, that first sentence is inarguable in itself, but does not substantiate your curious charge against Obama. Overt racism? Perhaps we can unpack this a bit.

A caveat: I don't want to waste time with any silliness about "PC", or over-sensitivity. Racism is one of the worst accusations to level at somebody. I have no idea what you are alluding to about Obama on that score. OTOH, as another e.g., I simply don't know if Donald Trump is personally racist, and try to steer clear of explicitly labelling him as such, but it seems an obvious possibility. The trouble is his cultivation of clearly racist support. Very far from laudatory, but not necessarily the same thing, So there is a whiff there that may bear some close scrutiny.

On the more immediate level, I have to say that, like DonH, I find your Obama comment appalling, ironically perhaps the more so because of your normal civility in these discussions.

Now, racism itself is a concept subject to some various interpretations. A over-the-top, Simon Legree-ish characterization is not really useful, and allows pretty ill-willed people to take a pass. The sense in which I tend to use it is simply that it's racist to ascribe to an individual generalized characteristics associated by race (substantiated or not, and usually, but not necessarily negative).

I was raised and educated in Jamaica. I was surrounded by people of colour; the hoary old defensive line about "some of my best friends" was just a banal reality. But, my family did move in the sort of circles that 'Trumpeters' would probably deride as "elite". Quite a few of the black folks that I knew were Rhodes Scholars, Knights of the Realm, University Deans, senior public servants etc. They dressed well, had degrees from the world's best institutions, spoke grammatically in complete sentences etc etc.

What I need to ask you is: Were these folks also "white people with a tan?" Is a low skin albedo to be correlated with low achievement?

I truly do not put you OWOTO, Defcon, I just can't help wondering about the attitude that would drive the statement you made. I'm afraid nothing else in your post provides any illumination.  Perhaps I misread, and some elaboration would clear the air.

Cheers, IFG :b:

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17 hours ago, DEFCON said:

News - whites aren't the only humans on this planet capable of expressing racist sentiments you know; l could easily fill a page here with YouTube links dedicated to black supremacists alone. I think it's time for society to get in step with the realities of equality beginning with acknowledgement of the FACT that Obama is no more a black man than he is a white. 

You've turned a reasoned discussion on it's ear with one sentence. It's something I would expect from Trump but until now, not something I expected from you.

By the by, using the existence of a small group of social media based thugs as grounds for making racist statements of any sort is the same as using the existence of a few mosquitos in your back yard as justification for deploying a tank car full of napalm to deal with the problem.

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Boestar

The Democrats controlled the lower House of Congress for the first two years following Obama's inauguration. The Senate was almost owned by the Democrats, but Kennedy's illness slowed the process to attain 60 seats down considerably, but the situation resolved, the Democrats took control of the House & its agenda and moved to pass Obamacare quickly. They lost the Senate 4 months later. 

 

 IFG

Obama's father was black, his mother white.

That does not add up to being black, or white, does it.

Further, over the lions share of his young life, Obama was raised by white grandparents and within a white culture. 

By identifying himself as black now, when he's at least every bit as much a white-man, and using that technically unjustifiable distinction to further his political agenda, Obama's is I think, exercising 'personal choice' to 'favour' a particular political itinerary and that is a form of overt racism.

I had hoped Obama would have been a great healer, the national representative of a great 'multicultural society, but instead, he chose to identify with a specific group and proceeded full steam ahead with his program. It's widely held that Obama will leave the Country in a racially fractured state with a divide on par with that that existed at the time of the 1960's US riots. It would seem that Obama and his Party have set the Country back substantially and in typical Democratic form seek to use branding and other misguided associations to blame others for their miserable failures..

Until the people of a society are prepared to sit down and discuss difficult issues without hurling insults and accusations around, there'll never be any chance of a fix and those issues will continue to fester and grow as we*'re seeing today.

Although his religious zeal is a little over-the-top imo, I think Dr. Ben Carson has a lot to offer and would make a great Secretary of Education during the Trump Administration's reign. He has the full background necessary to the provision of truly informed advice and the development & institution of working solutions to 'Make America Great Again'.

 

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Hi, Defcon - To your post:

  • "Obama's father was black, his mother white .... That does not add up to being black, or white, does it."

Well... WOW! (Again) Racial identity reduced to genetic arithmetic. I wonder: By that standard, what degree of racial purity validates a racial identity. It does seem like a sort of binary, but inverted reincarnation of the more analog Brown Bag Test.

  • " Further, over the lions share of his young life, Obama was raised by white grandparents and within a white culture ... By identifying himself as black now, when he's at least every bit as much a white-man, and using that technically unjustifiable distinction to further his political agenda, Obama's is I think, exercising 'personal choice' to 'favour' a particular political itinerary and that is a form of overt racism."

First, I think that premise is hogwash. Obama indeed was raised in a very cosmopolitan environment, including schooling in Indonesia, and yes, the part of his life spent with his white grandparents. But racial identity can be complicated, & I imagine particularly with his background, living in a world that, on sight, would identify him as black. For some, it's not only a personal choice, Defcon, and indeed Obama has written and spoken about it, to acclaim, with insight and eloquence. I assume your characterization of that as "overt racism" is another "opinion."

I also note that you seem untroubled by a contention on Mr. Trump's part, that the Mexican heritage of an American-born jurist should disqualify him from hearing an unrelated case if one of the litigants has said critical things about Mexico and Mexicans. Now ... that seems pretty "overt" to me, much more so than your laboured inferences about Obama.

  • "I had hoped Obama would have been a great healer, the national representative of a great 'multicultural society, but instead, he chose to identify with a specific group and proceeded full steam ahead with his program. It's widely held that Obama will leave the Country in a racially fractured state with a divide on par with that that existed at the time of the 1960's US riots. It would seem that Obama and his Party have set the Country back substantially and in typical Democratic form seek to use branding and other misguided associations to blame others for their miserable failures."

Again, hogwash for a premise. Straight out of the right-wing blogosphere. Defcon, this little thread can't be a platform to rebut all this various nonsense. I'll just point out that it's "widely held" by a lot of other people that partisan obstructionism prevents any progress on anything, or "widely held" that Gov't spending is up (it's not), crime is up (it's not), unemployment numbers are cooked (they're not), Obama wasn't born in the U.S. (yes, still!) ....

  • "Until the people of a society are prepared to sit down and discuss difficult issues without hurling insults and accusations around, there'll never be any chance of a fix and those issues will continue to fester and grow as we*'re seeing today."

Agreed! Now, please tell that to the right-wing haters, too.

  • "Although his religious zeal is a little over-the-top imo, I think Dr. Ben Carson has a lot to offer and would make a great Secretary of Education during the Trump Administration's reign. He has the full background necessary to the provision of truly informed advice and the development & institution of working solutions to 'Make America Great Again'."

On Dr. Carson ... :rolleyes: (;))

But on "... great again", there's part of the problem. That nationally insulting premise. Even with all its failings, the U.S. is great. As is our country, dammit! This political spectacle is like seeing the pampered heirs to good fortune, all puffed up with righteous indignation, harming each other and others fighting over the legacy. I so hope we do not set about to destroy ourselves in similar fashion.

Cheers, IFG :b:

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And while the debate goes on, in the real world this is happening. Not the first but hopefully the last!

Charlotte shooting: State of emergency amid protests

North Carolina's governor has declared a state of emergency in the city of Charlotte, after violence erupted during a second night of protests over the police killing of a black man.

Keith Lamont Scott was shot dead by a black officer on Tuesday.

One protester remains in a critical condition after a "civilian on civilian" shooting, police said.

Mr Scott was the third black man killed by US police in a week. Such shootings have sparked nationwide protests.

Riot police in Charlotte used tear gas as they faced hundreds of protesters. The local police department said four officers were injured.

Earlier North Carolina Governor Pat McCrory said he had "initiated efforts" to deploy the national guard and highway patrol to help deal with the protests.

"Any violence directed toward our citizens or police officers or destruction of property should not be tolerated," he said.

The demonstrators are angry that Mr Scott, 43, was killed by police on Tuesday afternoon at a block of flats in disputed circumstances.

Protests in CharlotteImage copyright Getty Images Image caption The protest began peacefully but turned violent afterwards

Police were serving an arrest warrant on another person when they say they saw Mr Scott get out of a car with a handgun.

Officers say he was repeatedly told to drop his handgun before he was shot but his family say he was reading a book, as he waited for his son to be dropped off by the school bus.

Dash-cam footage of the incident will be viewed by Charlotte's mayor but not released to the public "at that time", the city said.

It is legal to openly carry a handgun in North Carolina, but a special permit is required to carry a concealed weapon.

Keith Lamont Scott (L) and Officer Bentley Vinson Image caption Keith Lamont Scott (L) and Officer Bentley Vinson (R) Police clash with protestors during demonstration in Charlotte, North Carolina, on 21 SeptemberImage copyright Getty Images Image caption Four police officers were injured in the latest protests People manoeuvre amongst tear gas in Charlotte, North Carolina during a protest on 21 SeptemberImage copyright Reuters Image caption Police used tear gas and stun grenades

Bottles and fireworks

Governor McCrory declared the state of emergency as rioters clashed with police, breaking windows and setting small fires.

The second night of protests had begun peacefully but the demonstration was interrupted by gunfire and a man in the crowd was injured. The city initially said he had been killed but then issued a clarification.

Protesters then threw bottles and fireworks at the officers, who were lined up in riot gear. Police fired flash grenades and tear gas to repel the crowds.

Several journalists were also reportedly attacked. A reporter and cameraman for Charlotte's WCNC-TV were taken to hospital and a CNN journalist was tackled on live TV, local media report.

Two women embraced while looking at a police officer in Charlotte, North Carolina during a protest on 21 SeptemberImage copyright Reuters Image caption Relatives say Mr Scott was reading a book when shot, but police say he was holding a weapon People gather in front of the Ritz-Carlton in Charlotte, North Carolina, during a protest on 21 SeptemberImage copyright Reuters Image caption Journalists were attacked by some protesters in Charlotte on Wednesday night

Three fatal police shootings in last week caption'Police didn't give my brother a chance' - Tulsa victim's sister

  • A boy, 13, shot dead in Ohio after allegedly pulling an air gun from his waistband during arrest
  • An unarmed, stranded motorist, Terence Crutcher, was killed in Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Keith Lamont Scott shot in Charlotte and died in hospital

Ohio police kill boy 'who drew BB gun'

Tulsa shooting: The unanswered questions

Trump 'troubled' by Tulsa police shooting


Police in Charlotte defended their actions in the death of Mr Scott by insisting he had been repeatedly warned to drop his gun.

Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Chief Kerr Putney told a news conference Mr Scott first got out of the car with a gun, then got back into his vehicle when officers told him to drop his weapon.

He was shot when he emerged from his car holding his weapon. The police chief was unable to say if Mr Scott had been pointing his weapon at officers.

After her father's death, Mr Scott's daughter posted a video on Facebook in which she said her father had been unarmed and reading a book.

Mr Putney said no book was found.


Charlotte: Facts

Charlotte map
  • A major banking and financial centre in the American South, with a population of 827,000
  • The city's population is about 35% black, compared to 13.3% across the US
  • Police chief Kerr Putney is African-American
  • A white police officer was charged with voluntary manslaughter in 2013 for shooting an unarmed black man reportedly looking for help after a car crash. The charge was dropped last year after a jury could not reach a decision. The case sparked protests but no violence.

The Mayor of Charlotte, Jennifer Roberts, voiced her shock at the violent protests, which saw 16 police officers injured on Tuesday night.

"Charlotte is a city that has worked very hard to build good community police relations," she told the BBC.

"We have been a model of community policing. We have actually trained other police forces. This is not who we are as Charlotteans and I'm hoping we can move past these protests very quickly, move into more peaceful protests and back into dialogue."

The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People's North Carolina state chapter has called for the "full release of all facts available", including video.

"In these days of ready video and audio recordings, we believe that reviewing these recordings can and will help both sides get to the truth," it said in a statement.

The group said it supported peaceful protests but was against "unjust, random or purposeless acts of violence

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Good day IFG

Opinions are problematic, aren't they.

So there's no confusion I'll simplify my position on a few of the issues.

I do want Trump to win; not because I think he's a great man, or anything like that, but only because he is an agent of change.

I don't think Obama is much of a leader.

I believe equality is a dirty word and its use fuels unreasonableness across the population.

I think any form of selective racial favouritism that's mandated by a government decree is fertilizer for racists and social instability.

The Republicans under Bush II killed the American economy. Since, Obama and the Left have taken society to edge of social oblivion.

Trump doesn't seem to be able to please either traditional camp, which means major change is headed our way.

I appreciate your preference is for more of the same style politically IFG and even though I believe that view is dangerous to the collective well-being, I won't refer to it as 'hogwash' as those sorts of attributions to a man's reasoned thoughts are not conductive to productive discussion.

 

 

 

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Hi once again, Defcon - I'll start with the end and beginning of your post. 

  • "I appreciate your preference is for more of the same style politically IFG and even though I believe that view is dangerous to the collective well-being, I won't refer to it as 'hogwash' as those sorts of attributions to a man's reasoned thoughts are not conductive to productive discussion."

First, I don't think I've indicated a preference for "more of the same ..." (I'll get to my "preference" ...), and re: "hogwash", it may be a fine distinction to you, but I didn't comment on your "reasoned thoughts", I commented on some of your premises. The best reasoning accomplishes nothing with a flawed premise, or false 'facts'. Reasoning can only build upon a sound foundation.

  • "So there's no confusion I'll simplify my position on a few of the issues."

I wasn't in any confusion about your various positions, but any exploration of them requires some common stipulations to start with. Problematic or not, it's difficult to impossible to reconcile opinions if the premises are flawed. If I accepted some of the things you've put up, that seem to inform them, I might well share those positions.

I think you make your inference about my "preference" based on my dismay that the democratic process might yield up such an inappropriate person as Donald Trump to be POTUS. It's not based on ideology or policy, and frankly my focus is on state of the electorate, not Trump himself, much as he does always command the centre of attention!

So, Trump may be an agent of change (what change? debt reduction + increased spending + lowered taxes - it's magic) ... Obama may not be much of a leader (whatever) ... equality is a dirty word etc. (lost me on that one, dude) ... selective racial favouritism that's mandated by a government decree is fertilizer for racists and social instability (so does systemic inbred racism - no easy simplistic wave of the wand there) ... Bush II killed the American economy. Since, Obama and the Left have taken society to edge of social oblivion (OK, we'll look at that premise):

"The edge of social oblivion"? Really? If you examine the recoveries of all the major developed nations, The U.S. is ahead. How about making comparisons with the real world, not an imaginary one where all outcomes conform for your preferred notions and comportment. & Why such overheated language. It's the widespread resort to that sort of hysteria that destroys our ability to function collectively.

Remember Pogo, Defcon? - "We have met the enemy, and he is us!" Well its all of us. If we're going to demand diametrically opposed outcomes (better health care + more military + lower taxes ...), if we're going to put our elected officials through the worst denigration (collectively, we are an absolutely horrible employer, yet demanding ideal perfect employees) .... if we want to wage war overseas without losing any of our people or even paying for it .... freedom from oversight + protection from incompetence .... If we expect better than any people have attained anywhere in the world, while blind to how much worse off we maybe could have been ....

We'll find our representatives wanting. My "preference", Defcon, is that people, just stop behaving like spoiled children and grow up. I have my ideological leanings, but I've learned that they have to be modified to reality from time to time, and that our country (& the U.S.) is resilient enough to withstand government antithetical to those leanings for a period of time, within an Overton window of sanity.

Perhaps there should be no surprise that an employer/boss/consumer such as us, refusing to recognize the sheer cross-purpose of our thoughtless desires, should fall for a charlatan's 'magical thinking'. Italy seems to survive the attentions of a rich, ignorant, egotistical buffoon. That's only Italy, tho'. For the world, the leadership of the U.S. is much higher stakes.

IAC, Americans will make their choice, and deserve the result. We'll be along for the ride, deserving of it or not ....

Cheers, IFG :b:

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"We'll find our representatives wanting. My "preference", Defcon, is that people, just stop behaving like spoiled children and grow up. I have my ideological leanings, but I've learned that they have to be modified to reality from time to time, and that our country (& the U.S.) is resilient enough to withstand government antithetical to those leanings for a period of time, within an Overton window of sanity."

Good Morning IFG

Finally, a position we can agree on. It would seem that we seek similar outcomes even though our personal ideologies may follow along somewhat splayed pathways.

I appreciate your qualification with respect to 'HRC's' candidacy. However, reality informs us that there are essentially but two standing for election and she's one of them.

I think you're fashioning your arguments on the premise, or desire that my favour for a Trump Presidency is somehow founded on a belief that he's a great man and leader when in fact it's not.

Like you, I weigh the facts that come through all the noise & political haze, but through glass of a different colour. Reason, perhaps a product of life experience, tells that Trump, as scary as he may be, stands as the only candidate capable of effecting meaningful change in the direction the nation takes going forward.

IMHO, listening to and trying to decipher the message Clinton and her marketeers are advancing is a bit like looking at a map through a bowl of mud; they appear to be determined to disguise & hide their plans for at least another four years of more of the same in the way of policy & the kind of political dishonesty that's been plaguing the US and world since the passing of JFK.       

I agree with your perspective, 'our Country (& the US) is resilient enough to withstand government antithetical to (our) leanings for a period of time, within an Overton window of sanity' and I'm willing if you will, to accept the chance / risk that a Trump Presidency represents.

Have a great day. 

     

 

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Always good to find we're not implacably opposed on everything, Defcon ;)  -

Now for the 'but' ... a line cadged from another thread :P .... which featured among other things this article, linked by Don Hudson: The Dangerous Nihilism of Trump Voters. It sums up, rather more concisely than I have myself, some of where my unease lies with this U.S. election.

So, I'm not focused on our relative willingness to experiment with a Trump administration in order to "shake things up". That conjures an image of an electorate jury adjudicating that experiment's 'results'. Here, some of that jury may drive them.

For the first time in my life, I am concerned about the direction a democratic electorate is taking at heart, in the deep, dark sense. Year after year and day after day, one can see (if one's eyes are open!) what an empty vessel Trump has really been, taken at all seriously. He's held positions on every side of every issue, and showing commitment ONLY to his own self-aggrandizement.

The risk is not in an assertive implementation of one some secret plan of his (:rolleyes:). IMHO, where plans or policy are concerned, he is as consistent as a flag, rippling in the breeze of his self-appraised public standing. He will stir up any passion or prejudice, like a sorcerer's apprentice, knowing no bounds at all, if it brings him the roar of the crowd. Things go sideways when that crowd's darkest impulses take over, & I hold the crowd responsible. IAC, history has few examples of this working out well.

Altho' I certainly hope not, you may get your wish, Defcon. Your fellow travellers down south of 49 will have drafted everyone as a guinea-pig in your grand shake-up. Then, as with our rapidly toasting environment, I will just have to powerlessly prey (figuratively speaking!) that I'm all wrong.

But I sense I'm failing to convince you to even the tiniest extent, and that you are weary of this discussion. Last word's yours, or I'll just leave you to salvage the rest of your own weekend. Have a good one!

Cheers, IFG :b:

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  • 3 weeks later...

THIS ARTICLE SHOULD BE ENTITLED "BAD GUN LAWS AND STUPID PEOPLE = DEATH"

1 child is killed every day from an accidental shooting in the U.S.

By Ryan J. Foley, Larry Fenn and Nick Penzenstadler The Associated Press

Hours earlier, he was a happy four-year-old who loved Ironman and the Hulk and all the Avengers. Now, as Bryson Mees-Hernandez approached death in a Houston hospital room, his brain swelling through the bullet hole in his face, his mother assured the boy it was okay to die.

“When you are on the other side,” his mother, Crystal Mees, recalls telling him, “you are going to see Mommy cry a lot. It’s not because she’s mad. It’s because she misses you.”

And this: “It’s not your fault.”

But whose fault was it?

Bryson shot himself last January with a .22-caliber Derringer his grandmother kept under the bed. It was an accident, but one that could be blamed on many factors, from his grandmother’s negligence to the failure of government and industry to find ways to prevent his death and so many others.

The Associated Press and the USA TODAY Network set out to determine just how many others there have been.

The findings: During the first six months of this year, minors died from accidental shootings – at their own hands, or at the hands of other children or adults – at a pace of one every other day, far more than limited federal statistics indicate.

Tragedies like the death of Bryson Mees-Hernandez play out repeatedly across the country. Curious toddlers find unsecured, loaded handguns in their homes and vehicles, and fatally shoot themselves and others. Teenagers, often showing off guns to their friends and siblings, end up shooting them instead.

Using information collected by the Gun Violence Archive, a nonpartisan research group, news reports and public sources, the media outlets spent six months analyzing the circumstances of every death and injury from accidental shootings involving children ages 17 and younger from Jan. 1, 2014, to June 30 of this year – more than 1,000 incidents in all.

The complete article can be read at: http://globalnews.ca/news/3002496/1-child-is-killed-every-day-from-an-accidental-shooting-in-the-u-s/

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Stupidity plain and simple.  

Americans are trained to live in fear, danger lurks at every turn.  that fear prompts this kind of "gun under the bed" behaviour.  It is plain irresponsible behaviour.

As in Canada, Guns should be secured with a trigger lock, unloaded and locked up seperate from the ammo.  This alone would prevent "more than 1000 incidents"

The question is, should we actually be afraid?  The media says yes but is that actually true?

 

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