thinair Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Scuttlebutt is that its a paperwork issue, in that there is not the proper paperwork that Transport would like to see on mods done on the aircraft, and neither Boeing or Quantas are able to provide such paperwork.Was there a similar issue on the 737's when WJ started up in 96? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Thanks thinairSound like a major issue, as they are still selling the 767 nonstop to Hawaii in Dec. I guess they will be hunting for a short term wet lease.We always hear of 3rd world mtce and bad record keeping, I wonder what the heck happened here. Afterall the aircraft was only recently retired by QF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 80 Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I heard today this endeavour is basically at a stand-still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 This is now sounding very similar to what the Skyservice engineering team discovered during their investigation on some former Qantas 767s. Missing paperwork and logbook entrees. The suggestion after several weeks of Victorville was to walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 So what then; are the aircraft scrap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Interesting that Boeing would not do their own due diligence before taking them back.Here is a goto to a site that shows the full history of the aircraft.http://www.aussieairliners.org/b-767/vh-ogj/vhogj.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Interesting that Boeing would not do their own due diligence before taking them back.Here is a goto to a site that shows the full history of the aircraft.http://www.aussieairliners.org/b-767/vh-ogj/vhogj.htmlGreat review of the aircraft's previous life and really didn't spend much time sitting in California. However, I think Boeing leasing is a completely separate animal from the airplane builder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Great review of the aircraft's previous life and really didn't spend much time sitting in California. However, I think Boeing leasing is a completely separate animal from the airplane builder.In actual fact it appears that they are a key component of the Boeing Corporation.BCC Aircraft Leasinghttp://www.boeing.com/company/key-orgs/boeing-capital/#/sale-or-lease Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 In actual fact it appears that they are a key component of the Boeing Corporation.http://www.boeing.com/company/key-orgs/boeing-capital/#/sale-or-leaseYes but its a leasing division. This part of Boeing has taken over airline's Airbus equipment to sell customers brand new Boeing's. So they are dealing with all sorts of previously owned airplanes and in this case, The Boeing Company is not responsible for ensuring these airplanes meet any TC's standards. That would be up to the buyer. It's too bad. Until WS gets this sorted out, I bet the early morning WS maintenance meetings in YYC are not much fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 These situations can become really stupid in a hurry. If the Aussies could fly that plane into Canada on scheduled ops, what possible reason / justification could there be to deny a Canadian CoA now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 These situations can become really stupid in a hurry. If the Aussies could fly that plane into Canada on scheduled ops, what possible reason / justification could there be to deny a Canadian CoA now?Not sure if that aircraft did fly into Canada but if so it would be operating on the basis of it's Australian C of A. As far as justification, once the aircraft is to be given a Canadian C of A then all records pertaining to the aircraft are vetted by our authorities, it appears in this case that there is some missing paperwork for the mods done to the aircraft. http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/certification/guidance-beforejanuary2003-pl-acpl19-1309.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Thanks Malcolm. Having been there, I am intimately familiar with the process; it’s all about crossed ‘Ts’ and dotted ‘Is’. My point; the aircraft could easily have come to Vancouver, picked up Canadian travellers, crossed the Country and went on to wherever. If TC believes the aircraft is sound enough for it to come to this Country and load Canadians as described above, why is the problem so big and unsolvable now that the aircraft sits idle costing tons and may yet end up becoming Reynolds Wrap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zan Vetter Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 DEFCON your argument is, "why didn't they just rubber-stamp it?" Sounds like the regulator is doing it's job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Defcon, real simple when under the Australia C of A then that rules, once we take over and if the paperwork is not complete and anything happens then we are liable. So good work by Transport Canada!!!!!In a nut shell, what items would you think TC should ignore when issueing a C of A..... bad engines, landing gear, pressure bulkhead repair or ?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Malcolm & Zan Vetter I'd like to offer a hats off to Malcolm for his detective work in being the first to notice there was something unusual going on back in early Huly. ZV; that might be the position WJ would take; my question from the previous post was rhetorical. I can’t get my head around the costly insanity that comes with most efforts to change national registrations. Question; considering the financial magnitude of the 767 purchases, wouldn’t WJ borrow someone knowledgeable from TC to attend and participate with their team when they went out to investigate the aircraft and its history pre purchase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Malcolm & Zan VetterZV; that might be the position WJ would take; my question from the previous post was rhetorical.I can’t get my head around the costly insanity that comes with most efforts to change national registrations.Question; considering the financial magnitude of the 767 purchases, wouldn’t WJ borrow someone knowledgeable from TC to attend and participate with their team when they went out to investigate the aircraft and its history pre purchase?Keep in mind TC is not a consulting firm. However, there are many engineers in this country who have been involved with the importation of foreign registered aircraft. It can be a complicated process and having experienced people helps. More than once I was advised a simple patch repair had no paperwork and would have to be completely re-done to satisfy the regulator, delaying delivery of an aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zan Vetter Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Fact is, enforcement of the Act is the responsibility of the regulator. This is enforcement. Seems fine to me, WJ's published schedule or advance sale of tickets really has no bearing on TC and their mandate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 We do need to remember, so far there is / has been no official announcement of any problem. Perhaps all we are dealing with is rumour. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.O. Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 I have no info on how or why the delay, but I can say this. Not all civil aviation authorities and operators are as stringent about the care and custody of documentation for aircraft components and modifications as they should be. I've seen this result in delayed aircraft imports into Canada many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 I have no info on how or why the delay, but I can say this. Not all civil aviation authorities and operators are as stringent about the care and custody of documentation for aircraft components and modifications as they should be. I've seen this result in delayed aircraft imports into Canada many times.Nail. Head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Thanks JO, that is the case for certain and everyone in the business knows it. That being the case, if WJ didn't lease a TC expert to investigate the paperwork in advance, they're now going to be spending a lot of dollars getting the ac up to specs. This sounds a bit like Canada's after the purchase experience with the used British subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMEfirst Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 TC CARs MSI 26 Importing AircraftNot a simple process if you have not done this before on a type you are already operating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIP Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 We do need to remember, so far there is / has been no official announcement of any problem. Perhaps all we are dealing with is rumour. CheersReally ??? That is why a multi milliion dollar aircraft sits on the ramp for a month ??? Just rumour ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Really ??? That is why a multi milliion dollar aircraft sits on the ramp for a month ??? Just rumour ??Until we see a press release saying the operation is delayed I guess we need to view it as rumour... The current silence is quite different than the usual "good news" press releases that we normally see streaming out of WestJet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I'm hearing of a lot of corrosion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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