deicer Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't todays top line simulators used for complete training and then a new pilot can go straight on the line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAS Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 It's planned to operate WJA 655. YYZ-YYC 0900 October 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I was based in YYZ...Took the A310 course in France plus...7 Sim sessions....Flew from YYZ to YUL with 5 other pilots, did a few touch and goes and simulated emergencies....next day full revenue load to YYZ-YYC and return.I would think that if crews wanted to have actual hands on flying they would not go all the way to YYZ from YYC just to have that experience...Just my WAG...no "wiseness" out here in Dotland. Kip any guess you make is much more educated on the subject than any I can make. Perhaps just a positioning flight then. Maybe we will see a Press release about their first Canadian Flight of their new 767 from Toronto. Cheers and thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't todays top line simulators used for complete training and then a new pilot can go straight on the line?Pretty much so ...but....most companies do give a "Fam" flight after a few guys/gals have finished the training course. The simulator can really just about everything needed to qualify a pilot but there is nothing like a "Fam flight in the real thing for the "newby" and it does give the Training/Standards section a look-see at your ability as a recent graduate.When we did our short Fam flight we also had a TC Inspector on board to watch/check us...not sure if they do that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Deicer The short answer is yes, but line indoctrination is required to follow the sim training period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Found this on another forum (posted today) so I guess there is more to the training than at least I realized.QuoteAre QF pilots doing the line Indoc or boeing supplied?Boeing supplied pilots for the next 2 weeks or so.End QuoteThis prompted me to check out the TC web site:S745.124(32)(d) - Line Indoctrination Training for Pilots, Flight Engineers and Second Officers - Ground ServicingThe training regarding ground servicing and handling requirements shall be appropriate to the operator's operation. Where servicing is part of a pilot's, flight engineer's or second officer's duties, he/she will be trained in accordance with the standard.S745.124(32)(m,v) - Line Indoctrination Training for Pilots, Flight Engineers and Second Officers - EmergenciesPrior to a pilot becoming checked out on type, he/she shall receive training on all appropriate normal, abnormal and emergency procedures.If RTO procedures, use of the brake cooling chart, emergency procedures and engine inoperative procedures were covered during simulator training, they need not be covered during line indoctrination. Completion of these items during the simulator portion of training should be recorded in the pilot's training file.S745.124(33)( ©(f) - Line Indoctrination - Sectors/Hours RequirementsThe purpose of line indoctrination is to refine, in a line context, the initial training a pilot candidate has received on that aircraft type. This training should ensure that the candidate will be fully prepared to conduct operations in his/her designated position on all company routes for which he/she may be assigned.The most demanding phases of any flight are the take-off and landing and therefore, these phases of flight should be emphasised during line training. The enroute portion may have varying levels of significance, starting from a very routine domestic enroute operation to those which can be more complex and demanding, such as MNPS, ETOPS, etc. In this context, training requirements for line indoctrination should start with the basic requirement to safely conduct a domestic flight or a domestic sector. A sector is considered the best reference unit because it ensures that the fundamentals of line operations will always be covered; flying hours often provide only limited exposure to an operation and not valuable "hands on" training and experience.For those carriers whose operations are more complex and/or sophisticated, the line indoctrination sectors must be representative and consistent with the company route and airport qualification requirements and with the standard. In most cases, for these carriers, this will result in additional line indoctrination training (more sectors) being required. If the pilot is familiar with the technology of the aircraft and/or has flown similar routes before, then the sectors must meet the minimum in the standard https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/standards/commerce-manuals-guidance705-division8-316.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 With a completely new type to the airline I think there is a line operation requirement. I believe they need to perform some live flights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.k. Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I think Boestar's got it...I know when the first '87s came to AC, guys were out doing touch and goes in Mirabel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 When a pilot is new to the type, the carrier, the routes, or has been upgraded, along with other factors, 'line indoctrination' as is generally described above must be completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 This is an entirely new fleet type. You cannot simulate that into an operation. Line training is as much for the pilots as it is for the rest of the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st27 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Do ramp crews need to familiarize themselves with handling,loading ULD's etc??? Not sure how difficult it is to go from handbombing the 37's to using pallet loaders.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Do ramp crews need to familiarize themselves with handling,loading ULD's etc??? Not sure how difficult it is to go from handbombing the 37's to using pallet loaders..Not sure who does the handling for WestJet at YYZ but there is a def. learning curve for the Cargo Warehouse staff and in particular for tie down etc. when using ld7s (aircraft pallet) for large loads. Then of course there is the need position the various ULD types into base. One we used was to fly a full set in and then operate departing flights with a partial ULD load so as to build up a base stock. Not sure if WestJet is or is not a participant in the IATA ULD program that allows carriers to accept each other's units subject to appropriate demurrage charges if kept beyond a certain time. So ULD control is another new area for WestJet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjet Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 767 is in YYZ for training of ground crew and bridging training for CSA's. First revenue flight is tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 "First revenue flight is tomorrow." Excellent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Evidently on it's way to YYCC-FOGJ / WJA655Unknown Owner · Canada Toronto Pearson Int'l (CYYZ – info) Gate B5 Calgary Int'l (CYYC – info) Gate A17 09:46AM EDT 11:31AM MDT Scheduled: 09:00AM EDT Scheduled: 11:02AM MDT Other flights between these airports25 min3 hr 19 min Duration: 3 hours 45 minutesThursday, 22 October 2015 Status On The Way! / On Time (259 km down; 2,435 km to go) (track log & graph) Aircraft Boeing 767-300 (twin-jet) (H/B763/L – photos) Speed 376 kts (planned: 452 kts) (graph) Altitude 36,000 feet (planned: 36,000 feet) (graph) Distance Direct: 2,692 km Planned: 2,780 km Route URSAL2 KASED DLH MOT VESDO EBGAL3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIP Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 So what was the issue ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 So what was the issue ???You will have to wait for someone from the "Teal" side to answer that question. I do notice that todays press release no longer mentions Hawaii, just an omission or perhaps the ETOPS designation will take longer than previously thought. First flight leaves Toronto Pearson International airport this morningCALGARY, Oct. 22, 2015 /CNW/ - WestJet's first Boeing 767-300 extended-range aircraft will perform its inaugural flight today, departing Toronto Pearson International Airport at 9 a.m. EDT. Operating as WestJet flight 655, the aircraft will arrive at Calgary International Airport at 11:12 a.m. MDT."Today's inaugural flight of our first wide-body aircraft ushers in a new era in the history of WestJet," said Bob Cummings, WestJet Executive Vice-President, Commercial. "And with three more 767s due to be delivered in the months to come, we look forward to enriching the lives of our guests by offering them new destinations in Europe and elsewhere, as part of WestJet's ever-expanding network."Featuring a new teal and blue maple leaf-themed logo, which will eventually appear on all WestJet aircraft, the airline's 767-300s seat 262 guests and have a range of approximately 11 hours. The aircraft will include a Plus cabin with 24 premium seats in a two-by-two configuration, hot meals and all other amenities associated with Plus. The main cabin has 238 seats, with two seats on either side of the aircraft and three in the middle. By next spring all four 767s will be equipped with WestJet Connect, the airline's new inflight entertainment and wireless connectivity system.Beginning May 2016, WestJet will begin serving London (Gatwick) on a non-stop basis from six Canadian cities including Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Toronto and St. John's. With the exception of service from St. John's, all London flights will operate on WestJet's fleet of 767-300 extended-range aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 It was not a Maintenance delay!!! (Paperwork, loadplan stuff) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 So what was the issue ???What issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIP Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 What issue? Any aircraft that sits for 5-6 weeks has an issue, whether it be with the metal itself or regulatory.They don't make money sitting on the ground. First flight was announced, then the target date was missed by about a month.No surprise that WJ has done a great job of covering it up. And the pathetically gullible media in YYC chose to play along.But not everyone is fooled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I don't know what you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Whatever the problem was and I suspect it was only the paper trail , it is working fine nowDate Aircraft Origin Destination Departure Arrival Duration2015-Oct-23 B763/Q Calgary Int'l (CYYC) Toronto Pearson Int'l (CYYZ) 01:20PM MDT 06:40PM EDT On The Way! 2015-Oct-23 B763/Q Toronto Pearson Int'l (CYYZ) Calgary Int'l (CYYC) 09:27AM EDT 11:17AM MDT 3:502015-Oct-23 B738 Calgary Int'l (CYYC) Toronto Pearson Int'l (CYYZ) 01:17AM MDT 06:31AM EDT 3:142015-Oct-22 B763/L Toronto Pearson Int'l (CYYZ) Calgary Int'l (CYYC) 08:40PM EDT 10:31PM MDT 3:512015-Oct-22 B763/Q Calgary Int'l (CYYC) Toronto Pearson Int'l (CYYZ) 01:40PM MDT 06:52PM EDT 3:122015-Oct-22 B763/L Toronto Pearson Int'l (CYYZ) Calgary Int'l (CYYC) 09:46AM EDT 11:32AM MDT 3:46 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I think it serves the operation well that the aircraft is staying in Country flying between two perfect for the type airports. When snafus occur, considering all the new personnel and equipment involved, it'll be easy for the carrier to respond to issues as they arise without upsetting the flow too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 And of course Defcon, the YYC-YYZ operation allows the operation to build time quickly towards the eventual ETOPS certification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Lets hope so. Getting pretty tight to get 3 mos of ETOPS in before Hawaii starts.hangonforaseccrewsarequalifiedaircraftisequipedetopscanbeissuedbytransportusingintercontinentalflight time, basedoncertainrequirements..allis wellat thelittleairlinethatcouldandwill.cheers.the767'sarefabulousbueatifulandwillbeahit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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