C100 At Paris Airshow

[blues deville]

I am not sure if it is a carry over from the actual test aircraft that do not have an interior installed or not but the initial flight test aircraft can be pretty noisy. I wouldn't think it was a requirement on a fully completed aircraft.

Okay thanks boestar. That makes sense.

The opening video scene lined up for rwy 08 at YTZ looks good with the city skyline beside it. However, looking at that view, I wonder if building a parallel runway further south and away from the city shoreline would be an option for everyone. I'm not sure how you go about extending the current 08-26 and maintain full daily all weather operations.

[conehead]

Beautiful looking aircraft.

Question: Are David Clarke headsets a requirement when flying this Bombardier model or just a test pilot thing? I don't recall having to wear them with the DHC-8-102.

I thought everybody pretty well uses noise-cancelling headsets these days?

[DEFCON]

Old men and old habits / ways?

[blues deville]

I thought everybody pretty well uses noise-cancelling headsets these days?

Nope. Single ear plantronics. My favourite.

[Seeker]

That's good looking jet. The cabin interior also looks attractive and bright.

I also like how the glass is actually shaped to fit the fuselage and the wipers park vertically vs the 737 where the windshield looks like it's from a 1946 Ford and the wipers park horizontally? (makes you wonder if the Boeing engineers knew they were designing an aircraft)

[blues deville]

Ha ha. I don't think those Boeing engineers knew they were designing what would become their best selling aircraft. Next time you're in SEA, try to visit the Museum of Flight and see the prototype 737. If you look closely at the fuselage below the pilot's side windows, you can see patches where the engineers tried repeatedly to find the best position for the pitot tube. In the mid 1960's, design technology wasn't anything like it is today. There was a lot more trial and error and less computer aided designing.

[Guest]

More pressure on Bombardier and Boeing?

Business | Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:46pm EDT Related: AEROSPACE & DEFENSE

Exclusive: Airbus tells A320 suppliers to cut prices 10 percent

PARIS | BY TIM HEPHER

REUTERS/REGIS DUVIGNAU

European planemaker Airbus (AIR.PA) is pressing suppliers on its A320 jet program to slash prices by at least 10 percent by 2019 in order to make the company's main cash cow more competitive, three people familiar with the matter said.

The demand for austerity echoes rival Boeing's (BA.N) cost-cutting Partner for Success initiative, which has redrawn the relationship between suppliers and the world's biggest planemaker as the industry gears up for record output.

Airbus' cuts are just one part of an internal efficiency program called SCOPe+ that also seeks savings through a close look at procurement and the way planes are developed and sold, according to suppliers and an Airbus document seen by Reuters.

Airbus has told suppliers that the prospect of increased volumes and a longer lifespan for its best-selling jet, which has enjoyed a surge in sales due to an important makeover, means it is time to "review all options" in its supply chain.

This includes a fresh look at the company's procurement strategy that could include extra use of dual sourcing for crucial parts: a strategy designed both to reduce costs and to reduce the risks of shortfalls as production increases.

Airbus is also looking at further shifting its business model to allow airlines less choice over accessories that they previously ordered direct, known as Buyer Furnished Equipment.

Also involved is a longer-term effort to weave manufacturing costs into the design process to prevent unintended overruns in costs on the factory floor, a tool known as "Redesign to Cost."

Though Airbus has confirmed the existence of the SCOPe+ initiative, its details have not been publicly disclosed.

The initiative "is part of Airbus’ long-term commitment towards boosting competitiveness through operational efficiency and continuous improvement," a spokeswoman said.

TUG OF WAR

In 2014, Airbus spent about 13 billion euros on parts for its A320 family of jets, which compete with Boeing's 737 in the busiest part of the $120 billion-a-year aircraft market.

Each plane contains three million parts.

Mounting pressure on suppliers for price cuts comes as Airbus and Boeing are raising production of their single-aisle models to around 50 aircraft a month each, up from 42 a month, and pondering a further step-up to 60 a month.

Such increases in volume are traditionally the aerospace industry's most valuable lever for driving down unit costs.

But the SCOPe+ and Partner for Success programs aim to complement this with direct contributions from suppliers, driving profit margins further up industry's food chain. Boeing has told suppliers to cut prices by 15 percent or lose business.

While planemakers lead the industry in terms of revenues and operating profits, the top 20 companies in the aerospace sector by operating margin are all suppliers, according to Deloitte.

That rankles with manufacturers who argue their willingness to gamble on hugely popular upgrades of the A320 and Boeing 737 jets is driving record sales and creating wealth across the industry that ought to be shared through lower parts prices.

But many small suppliers argue the efficiency campaigns mask a grab for part of their profit margins. They say they face their own challenges in investing in equipment to support higher production, with no guarantee how long the boom will last.

Some are pushing for higher, not lower, prices.

The increased tension is the latest evidence of a shift in industry focus. After a decade of bold developments, Airbus and Boeing are putting their energy into upgrading existing models.

With fewer new projects in the pipeline, they have less leverage to demand better terms from suppliers in return for a place on the next new plane and observers say this has led to a growing cost battle over existing programs.

"There is a balance of power between prime contractors and the supply chain. Those who supply things that can be dual-sourced like aerostructures feel price pressure. But a lot of the supply chain is single-sourced and it is harder for those suppliers to see why they should give anything up," said Nick Cunningham, aerospace analyst at UK-based Agency Partners.

(Editing by James Regan and Elaine Hardcastle)

[DEFCON]

I'll bet the lion's share of the 10 - 15% reduction in parts costs will come from the hide of labour.

[blues deville]

I'll bet the lion's share of the 10 - 15% reduction in parts costs will come from the hide of labour.

Or perhaps just more "made in China" components?

[Lakelad]

.

Bombardier Inc offered to sell majority stake in CSeries program to Airbus: sources

Tue Oct 6, 2015 - Reuters
Allison Lampert, Andrea Shalal and Tim Hepher

MONTREAL/WASHINGTON/PARIS — Bombardier has approached European planemaker Airbus about selling a majority stake in the Canadian company’s CSeries jet in order to shore up its depleted balance sheet, people familiar with the matter said.

Under a proposed tie-up, Airbus would help Bombardier complete development of the troubled aircraft in exchange for a controlling stake in the program, effectively ending Bombardier’s independent efforts to break into the 100- to 160-seat airplane market dominated by Airbus and Boeing.

Significant hurdles would need to be cleared before Airbus took up the surprise offer to invest in its smaller competitor.

“There are ongoing discussions, but they are still exploratory ones. Neither management has made a decision,” said one of the sources, who asked not to be identified given the sensitivity of the matter, as did the other sources.

Bombardier’s Class B shares surged nearly 15 per cent to $1.77 in Toronto when markets closed on Tuesday.

If a deal is reached, Airbus would fund the final phase of development of the CSeries, an all-new, medium-haul, carbon-composite jet due to enter service next year, according to two sources. The deal would involve a minimal amount of cash up front, they said.

In return, Airbus would receive a controlling stake in the aircraft – which is years late and billions over budget – and a share in its revenue, although details are still being worked out.

The firms would probably form a separate board for the CSeries and sign a strategic agreement to jointly market the plane, if a deal was reached, sources said.

Airbus and Bombardier declined comment.

“We have no comment on rumours about other companies, but we are always monitoring developments in our industry,” Rainer Ohler, head of communications at Airbus Group, said.

Bombardier spokeswoman Isabelle Rondeau said the company would not “comment on rumours.”

Until recently, Bombardier had been reluctant to offer a majority stake in its main aircraft development program, but the company’s weakened balanced sheet has forced the Beaudoin family that controls the board to consider all options, said one source, who asked not to be named as they were not authorized to speak publicly.

.

[blues deville]

Once again our home grown aerospace industry runs into trouble and a potential sale is being discussed. Boeing purchased Dehav back in the 80's shedding the small planes (DHC6 series) as they were a "big" airplane maker.

I wonder if Viking Aerospace will be producing Cseries jets for China someday?

[mo32a]

Bombardier is going to lose control of the company no matter what, they would be better off trying to get the Caisse as their partner and managing directors. At least they promote Quebec interests and industries. If they go with Airbus they are just going to be a small subsidiary that will become superfluous over time.

[Guest]

and with the great knowlege the Caisse has of the industry and their large aviation customer base...... of course they would do better

[conehead]

Discussions have ended, no deal.

[Guest]

Airbus on Tuesday called off talks with Bombardier over propping up the troubled CSeries jet, leaving the Canadian plane-maker facing dwindling options to keep its dream of competing in the aerospace big league alive.

The latest blow to Bombardier, which has been trying to shore up its shrinking cash reserves for months, came after Reuters reported that Bombardier had made an offer to Airbus.

Both companies acknowledged that talks had taken place. A source familiar with the situation said Airbus ended the talks shortly after they became public.

Under the proposed deal, Airbus would have helped Bombardier complete development of the troubled aircraft in exchange for a controlling stake in the program, effectively ending Bombardier's independent efforts to break into the lower end of the global airplane market dominated by Airbus and Boeing .

Bombardier shares jumped 13 per cent on the Toronto Stock Exchange immediately after Reuters reported the approach, ending the day up 15 per cent at $1.77. The shares are still worth less than a quarter of their value in July 2008, when Bombardier officially launched the CSeries jet.

After the report, Airbus confirmed that it had been exploring business opportunities with Bombardier but that such discussions were no longer being pursued.

Bombardier then confirmed it had held talks with Airbus about "certain business opportunities," but those discussions were no longer underway. The company said it would continue to "explore initiatives, such as a potential participation in industry consolidation," but gave no further details.

​

[Super 80]

This smells more like a maneuver for the future defense of a shareholder lawsuit than anything else.

[J.O.]

I heard this said this morning:

"BBD has $3 billion in cash, $9 billion in accumulated debt, dwindling sales and no cash flow."

Seems to me like grandstanding for control in a potential deal with Airbus wasn't the smartest strategy. If nothing else, they could sure use some Airbus thinking on service after the sale.

[Guest]

And the count down starts:

Bombardier Inc’s Airbus talks signal ‘the beginning of the end’ for CSeries, experts say

‎Yesterday, ‎October ‎7, ‎2015, ‏‎2:23:28 PM | Kristine Owram

Bombardier Inc.’s talks with one of its biggest rivals suggest the company is growing increasingly desperate and may be nearing a point that industry experts variously described as “the last stop on the line” and “the end of the game” for the troubled CSeries program.

Bombardier and France’s Airbus Group SE both acknowledged Tuesday that they had engaged in discussions about “business opportunities” but a deal is “no longer being pursued.”

The disclosure came on the heels of a Reuters report that Bombardier had approached Airbus about a proposed collaboration that would have given the French company a controlling stake in the CSeries program in exchange for its help with the final stages of development of the overdue and over-budget aircraft.

Bombardier shares plunged Wednesday on the news that a deal is no longer in the works. The stock fell 12.9 per cent to $1.54, wiping out most of the previous day’s 14.9 per cent gain.

When contacted by the Financial Post, Bombardier strategic adviser Henri Courpron wouldn’t comment about the specifics of the Airbus discussions.

“Studies are being done and options are being evaluated and campaigns are being worked on and I’m trying to help the company the best I can to be successful in all these options,” said Courpron, former CEO of Airbus North America and chairman of consultancy Plane View Partners.

Any such deal would once have been unprecedented in the industry, especially because Bombardier explicitly developed the CSeries to take on Airbus and Boeing Co. in the longer-range jet market, and Airbus’s A319 will compete directly with the larger CS300 version of the CSeries.

“This is a very bad situation and for Bombardier to have spoken to Airbus at all implies that they couldn’t see any other way out,” said Richard Aboulafia, vice-president of analysis for aviation research firm Teal Group Corp.

Related

• Bombardier Inc may run out of cash by mid-2016: Scotiabank
• Bombardier Inc to slash 1,750 jobs as demand for business jets dives
• Bombardier Inc shares soar as CSeries confirmed as the quietest aircraft in its class

Aboulafia, a long-time critic of the CSeries, said he believes “this is the beginning of the end” of the program.

“The only term I can think of is ‘last stop on the line,’” he said.

Bombardier has been struggling to win new orders for the aircraft — it has been more than a year since the company last recorded a firm order for the CSeries — and investors are growing increasingly concerned about the company’s cash flow as demand for its other products slows.

“That’s what makes these talks even weirder — everyone involved must have known that the optics of these discussions, if leaked, would grievously damage the CSeries on the market,” Aboulafia said.

“Unless something unprecedented happens, this is likely to lead to the death of the program.”

Rolland Vincent, former director of international airline analysis at Bombardier, called the decision to approach Airbus “bizarre.”

Unless something unprecedented happens, this is likely to lead to the death of the program

“That’s kind of the end of the game,” said Vincent, who now runs aviation consultancy Rolland Vincent Associates.

“If it went any further they’d have to open their books, they’d have to open the kimono, and suddenly they have no forward plan after that.”

Both Airbus and Bombardier refused to comment beyond the brief statements they issued Tuesday night.

Bombardier burned through US$808 million of cash in the second quarter and Scotiabank estimates it will use US$1.7 billion this year as order flow — and therefore cash advances — remains weak in both the aerospace and transportation businesses.

“In our view, Bombardier is suffering from a confidence issue — not just investor confidence, but also confidence from customers and prospective customers,” National Bank analyst Cameron Doerksen wrote in a note to clients, downgrading the company’s price target to $2 from $2.30.

Bombardier’s liquidity situation — made worse by the additional cost of developing two new models of business aircraft, the Global 7000 and 8000 — appears to be behind its approach of Airbus, said David Tyerman, analyst at Canaccord Genuity.

“This episode does raise the question, how bad are things at Bombardier from either a liquidity or CSeries sales standpoint?” Tyerman wrote.

“We think the liquidity issue is less critical as the company appears to have a number of options,” including a planned spinoff of a minority stake in its train-making business, a possible capital injection by the Caisse de depot et placement du Quebec, or other asset sales.

However, “The CSeries sales issue remains a serious risky unknown,” he said.

Financial Post

[DEFCON]

We have a federal election in the works, a large Quebec based corporation is in trouble and this is Canada. Is there any reason to expect something different from the Feds here? Would a bailout of BBD now be any different than the corporate bailouts that came on the backs of the taxpayer back in 2009?

Bombardier is playing the game. By going to Airbus, BBD is getting their ducks in a row, crossing the T's so to speak, or paving the way for that nasty Anglophone government to come to the rescue again. I'm wondering how long it's going to be before the labour givebacks begin, which will I think will be necessary before the Feds get involved.

[Guest]

likely the province will be first in line to help Bombardier out.

[DEFCON]

...help will be on the way.

[Boney]

There goes my taxes in the wrong direction. OUCH.

[blues deville]

United Airlines possible order of 100 jets.

http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/bombardier-inc-shares-climb-as-united-airlines-shows-interest-in-cseries-embraer-jets

[DEFCON]

Let's hope!

[Guest]

Problems in rail division also? http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/toronto-transit-commission-threatens-to-sue-bombardier-inc-over-latest-streetcar-delay​