Fueling

[J.O.]

The staff shortage debacle in YYZ last winter cost the airlines a lot of money in flight cancellations, burnt crew duty days and customer dissatisfaction. I have zero information to confirm or deny this but the mess it created may have pushed AC management over the edge. Having endured that mess as a passenger, I couldn't blame them if it did. The fact that the people who chose to no-show may have caused their more dedicated colleagues to pay a heavy price is very unfortunate.

Personally I think pumping fuel should pay more than $16 an hour. Their responsibility is far from insignificant and if you think you're going to get someone who gives a flying fadoo for little more than minimum wage, especially when it's minus 30 in February, then you're dreaming in technicolour.

[DEFCON]

I'm not familiar with the delays you are referring to JO. Do you know what precipitated the labour unrest?

[J.O.]

Apparently it was too cold for most of their fuelers. The Sunday when I was trying to get to YUL they only had three operators for the entire terminal complex.

[deicer]

Not saying it wasn't or was a labour issue, however, with the extreme cold they had this winter, they did have problems with the new fuel trucks. The hydrostatic drive didn't agree with the extreme cold either, so they were offline a lot as well.

[boestar]

Frankly, if the contractor cannot fulfill the terms of the contract (Consolidated adn the airlines) then the contract is breached and another supplier is sought. If you want to keep a contract and continue to make money then comply with all of the terms of the contract and keep you customers happy.

[conehead]

A novel concept these days.

[mrado]

Here are the rates of pay at Consolidated:

Start $13.10/hr

After 10 years $19.68

This means they make between $28,000 to $40,000 per year...not much for living in the largest and one of the most expensive cities in Canada!

Over scale employees with decades (22 - 47 years of experience) make between $20.18 and $22.05/hr) but this is a small number of employees.

Dental after 1 year

Healthcare after 18 months

Believe it or not, They need tons of training and qualifications to do the work

New Company in Toronto (ASIG) offering about $13 - $14.50 depending on experience. Anything in the Toronto area under $15/hr and you are considered to be working poor.

SHAME on AIr Canada and the airlines for making Canada's premier airports a safety and security risk while driving workers into the poor house.

[mrado]

As for Feb 15th...the coldest day in recorded history at Pearson...the equipment that the airlines force Consolidated to use, did not cooperate in the extreme weather conditions.

Also Consolidated had difficulties servicing the airlines because the airlines employees didn't show up to work and those who did were slowed by the cold.

Hard to fuel aircraft on time when their are no airline employees to bring the aircraft onto the gates.

Another weak ass Air Canada excuse

[Guest]

Here are the rates of pay at Consolidated:

Start $13.10/hr

After 10 years $19.68

This means they make between $28,000 to $40,000 per year...not much for living in the largest and one of the most expensive cities in Canada!

Over scale employees with decades (22 - 47 years of experience) make between $20.18 and $22.05/hr) but this is a small number of employees.

Dental after 1 year

Healthcare after 18 months

Believe it or not, They need tons of training and qualifications to do the work

New Company in Toronto (ASIG) offering about $13 - $14.50 depending on experience. Anything in the Toronto area under $15/hr and you are considered to be working poor.

SHAME on AIr Canada and the airlines for making Canada's premier airports a safety and security risk while driving workers into the poor house.

In an area like Toronto, if the wages offered are so bad, why would anyone take the jobs? Is the job market so bad that there are not other choices? You mention the hourly rate, what about the benefits (if any) that go along with them?

[mrado]

These workers need the following skills and qualifications to perform the job safely and securely:

1) Intensive and recurrent security and background checks in order to be allowed to work in these secured areas at the airports. (Some background checks can take up to a year before the worker is allowed to work independently and without an escort). Furthermore the equipment that these workers operate are 1 seaters, thus it makes it extremely difficult to properly escort these workers to ensure they have no terroristic or criminal tendencies.

2) A valid regular provincial drivers license, without restrictions. All workers must have and maintain a provincial drivers license so they apply to obtain a special airside drivers license (AVOP) from the Airport Authorities.

3) AVOP (Airside Vehicle Operators Permit). This is the license that the airport authorities will issue after intensive testing and studying of airport material (airport traffic directives) and detailed maps of the entire airside area of the airport, including names of the various runways, taxiways, colours of airside lights pertaining to the runways, taxiways, ramp, etc. This testing is very difficult, even for those workers who have been employed at these airports for decades. There is also the practical driving portion that must be included before an AVOP can be issued.

PLEASE NOTE: These workers also drive large tanker trucks with up to 50,000 litres of volatile jet fuel and within a few feet of aircraft that are fully loaded with passengers. The tankers have air brakes and some use standard transmissions. THERE ARE NO SPECIAL LICENSES REQUIRED TO DRIVE THESE TANKERS. NO D OR A LICENSES AND NO AIRBRAKE ENDORSMENTS. JUST THE NORMAL AVOP AND WHATEVER BASIC TRAINING THE EMPLOYER PROVIDES.

4) Dangerous Goods Certificates for the handling and transportation of Jet Fuel.

5) WHMIS (Workplace Hazardous Materials Information System) Training

6) Confined Space Entry (to maintain the underground pipelines and tank farm tanks)

7) Specialized knowledge and training to receive and offload the many dozens of rail cars that are shipped to Pearson Airport each day that contain thousands upon thousands of Jet Fuel. This group of workers are also required to shunt these rail cars back and forth on and off the CN tracks and onto the PIFFC offloading facility at the Toronto Tank Farm

8) A310T Mechanics Licenses. Our Members repair and maintain the numerous pieces of fueling equipment, fuel trucks and fuel tankers. There are also a number of apprentices that perform this work as well.

9) Body Shop repair. Our members are trained and qualified to perform body repairs to the various pieces of equipment in Toronto. They have a paint shop and traditionally have performed welding work as well.

10) Flight dispatchers/Lead Servicemen. These workers are responsible for knowing the constantly changing gates, arrival and departure times of the various airlines they service. The must have many years experience on the ramp operation to even qualify to be a dispatcher. They answer telephones every few minutes, are on a cb radio with the servicemen under their watch every few minutes, are constantly scanning for gate changes and arrival and departure times, sort through hundreds of fuel sheets that come off their printers every few seconds, must dispatch the servicemen assignments on a regular basis, know where each and every body is located at a moments notice, provide training when necessary, etc.

11) In Class training. All workers must go through a good weeks worth of in class training with a training supervisor. Basic theory of static electricity, along with a multitude of other safety related matters are necessary to be taught to the new workers.

12) On the job training. At least two weeks of on the job training is required as new employees need to be shown the many different types of aircraft and their individual fueling panels, tanks and systems. Additional training (usually a couple of days to a week) is required for the purpose of tanker training.

13) Specific Airline requirements. Many airlines, especially the American carriers have set processes and training requirement needs for their specific airline.

14) Mathematics. Employees are required to make mathematical calculations to ensure that the right amount of fuel is distributed into the various fuel tanks on the different types of aircraft.

15) Fire Fighting. Employees are to be trained on how to operate fire extinguishers, etc. in the event of an emergency.

16) Fuel Spill clean up and environmental matters. Workers must be trained on how to clean up fuel spills along with preventing environmental damage.

This is just some of the things associated to this case.

FOR A BRAND NEW OPERATOR TO COME IN WITH FEW OR NO EXPERIENCED WORKERS MAKING CLOSE TO MINIMUM WAGE IS AN ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN!

[Guest]

These workers need the following skills and qualifications to perform the job safely and securely:

1) Intensive and recurrent security and background checks in order to be allowed to work in these secured areas at the airports. (Some background checks can take up to a year before the worker is allowed to work independently and without an escort). Furthermore the equipment that these workers operate are 1 seaters, thus it makes it extremely difficult to properly escort these workers to ensure they have no terroristic or criminal tendencies.

2) A valid regular provincial drivers license, without restrictions. All workers must have and maintain a provincial drivers license so they apply to obtain a special airside drivers license (AVOP) from the Airport Authorities.

3) AVOP (Airside Vehicle Operators Permit). This is the license that the airport authorities will issue after intensive testing and studying of airport material (airport traffic directives) and detailed maps of the entire airside area of the airport, including names of the various runways, taxiways, colours of airside lights pertaining to the runways, taxiways, ramp, etc. This testing is very difficult, even for those workers who have been employed at these airports for decades. There is also the practical driving portion that must be included before an AVOP can be issued.

PLEASE NOTE: These workers also drive large tanker trucks with up to 50,000 litres of volatile jet fuel and within a few feet of aircraft that are fully loaded with passengers. The tankers have air brakes and some use standard transmissions. THERE ARE NO SPECIAL LICENSES REQUIRED TO DRIVE THESE TANKERS. NO D OR A LICENSES AND NO AIRBRAKE ENDORSMENTS. JUST THE NORMAL AVOP AND WHATEVER BASIC TRAINING THE EMPLOYER PROVIDES.

4) Dangerous Goods Certificates for the handling and transportation of Jet Fuel.

5) WHMIS (Workplace Hazardous Materials Information System) Training

6) Confined Space Entry (to maintain the underground pipelines and tank farm tanks)

7) Specialized knowledge and training to receive and offload the many dozens of rail cars that are shipped to Pearson Airport each day that contain thousands upon thousands of Jet Fuel. This group of workers are also required to shunt these rail cars back and forth on and off the CN tracks and onto the PIFFC offloading facility at the Toronto Tank Farm

8) A310T Mechanics Licenses. Our Members repair and maintain the numerous pieces of fueling equipment, fuel trucks and fuel tankers. There are also a number of apprentices that perform this work as well.

9) Body Shop repair. Our members are trained and qualified to perform body repairs to the various pieces of equipment in Toronto. They have a paint shop and traditionally have performed welding work as well.

10) Flight dispatchers/Lead Servicemen. These workers are responsible for knowing the constantly changing gates, arrival and departure times of the various airlines they service. The must have many years experience on the ramp operation to even qualify to be a dispatcher. They answer telephones every few minutes, are on a cb radio with the servicemen under their watch every few minutes, are constantly scanning for gate changes and arrival and departure times, sort through hundreds of fuel sheets that come off their printers every few seconds, must dispatch the servicemen assignments on a regular basis, know where each and every body is located at a moments notice, provide training when necessary, etc.

11) In Class training. All workers must go through a good weeks worth of in class training with a training supervisor. Basic theory of static electricity, along with a multitude of other safety related matters are necessary to be taught to the new workers.

12) On the job training. At least two weeks of on the job training is required as new employees need to be shown the many different types of aircraft and their individual fueling panels, tanks and systems. Additional training (usually a couple of days to a week) is required for the purpose of tanker training.

13) Specific Airline requirements. Many airlines, especially the American carriers have set processes and training requirement needs for their specific airline.

14) Mathematics. Employees are required to make mathematical calculations to ensure that the right amount of fuel is distributed into the various fuel tanks on the different types of aircraft.

15) Fire Fighting. Employees are to be trained on how to operate fire extinguishers, etc. in the event of an emergency.

16) Fuel Spill clean up and environmental matters. Workers must be trained on how to clean up fuel spills along with preventing environmental damage.

This is just some of the things associated to this case.

FOR A BRAND NEW OPERATOR TO COME IN WITH FEW OR NO EXPERIENCED WORKERS MAKING CLOSE TO MINIMUM WAGE IS AN ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN!

Perhaps but stating again, in an area like Toronto there must be lots of entry level jobs at higher wages and therefore no one will apply for the jobs being offered at the offering wage. One question though, the min wage has been quoted yet you seem to indicate that there are various job levels that I presume offer higher wages, if so what is the remuneration for those categories?

[mrado]

It is the same wage scale for everyone (refuelers, tank farm operators, utility personnel and dispatchers.

The only exceptions are for licensed mechanics and apprentice mechanics.

There is also a premium for dispatchers whose job is like atc on steroids

[CanadaEH]

These workers need the following skills and qualifications to perform the job safely and securely:

1) Intensive and recurrent security and background checks in order to be allowed to work in these secured areas at the airports. (Some background checks can take up to a year before the worker is allowed to work independently and without an escort). Furthermore the equipment that these workers operate are 1 seaters, thus it makes it extremely difficult to properly escort these workers to ensure they have no terroristic or criminal tendencies.

2) A valid regular provincial drivers license, without restrictions. All workers must have and maintain a provincial drivers license so they apply to obtain a special airside drivers license (AVOP) from the Airport Authorities.

3) AVOP (Airside Vehicle Operators Permit). This is the license that the airport authorities will issue after intensive testing and studying of airport material (airport traffic directives) and detailed maps of the entire airside area of the airport, including names of the various runways, taxiways, colours of airside lights pertaining to the runways, taxiways, ramp, etc. This testing is very difficult, even for those workers who have been employed at these airports for decades. There is also the practical driving portion that must be included before an AVOP can be issued.

PLEASE NOTE: These workers also drive large tanker trucks with up to 50,000 litres of volatile jet fuel and within a few feet of aircraft that are fully loaded with passengers. The tankers have air brakes and some use standard transmissions. THERE ARE NO SPECIAL LICENSES REQUIRED TO DRIVE THESE TANKERS. NO D OR A LICENSES AND NO AIRBRAKE ENDORSMENTS. JUST THE NORMAL AVOP AND WHATEVER BASIC TRAINING THE EMPLOYER PROVIDES.

4) Dangerous Goods Certificates for the handling and transportation of Jet Fuel.

5) WHMIS (Workplace Hazardous Materials Information System) Training

6) Confined Space Entry (to maintain the underground pipelines and tank farm tanks)

7) Specialized knowledge and training to receive and offload the many dozens of rail cars that are shipped to Pearson Airport each day that contain thousands upon thousands of Jet Fuel. This group of workers are also required to shunt these rail cars back and forth on and off the CN tracks and onto the PIFFC offloading facility at the Toronto Tank Farm

8) A310T Mechanics Licenses. Our Members repair and maintain the numerous pieces of fueling equipment, fuel trucks and fuel tankers. There are also a number of apprentices that perform this work as well.

9) Body Shop repair. Our members are trained and qualified to perform body repairs to the various pieces of equipment in Toronto. They have a paint shop and traditionally have performed welding work as well.

10) Flight dispatchers/Lead Servicemen. These workers are responsible for knowing the constantly changing gates, arrival and departure times of the various airlines they service. The must have many years experience on the ramp operation to even qualify to be a dispatcher. They answer telephones every few minutes, are on a cb radio with the servicemen under their watch every few minutes, are constantly scanning for gate changes and arrival and departure times, sort through hundreds of fuel sheets that come off their printers every few seconds, must dispatch the servicemen assignments on a regular basis, know where each and every body is located at a moments notice, provide training when necessary, etc.

11) In Class training. All workers must go through a good weeks worth of in class training with a training supervisor. Basic theory of static electricity, along with a multitude of other safety related matters are necessary to be taught to the new workers.

12) On the job training. At least two weeks of on the job training is required as new employees need to be shown the many different types of aircraft and their individual fueling panels, tanks and systems. Additional training (usually a couple of days to a week) is required for the purpose of tanker training.

13) Specific Airline requirements. Many airlines, especially the American carriers have set processes and training requirement needs for their specific airline.

14) Mathematics. Employees are required to make mathematical calculations to ensure that the right amount of fuel is distributed into the various fuel tanks on the different types of aircraft.

15) Fire Fighting. Employees are to be trained on how to operate fire extinguishers, etc. in the event of an emergency.

16) Fuel Spill clean up and environmental matters. Workers must be trained on how to clean up fuel spills along with preventing environmental damage.

This is just some of the things associated to this case.

FOR A BRAND NEW OPERATOR TO COME IN WITH FEW OR NO EXPERIENCED WORKERS MAKING CLOSE TO MINIMUM WAGE IS AN ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN!

Pretty much everything you mention there is so basic someone straight out of high school could perform the job. There are obviously some specialty positions that no doubt get paid higher.

I respect the work ground handlers do - it's a physical job that does not pay anything close to what it's worth, IMO.

[CanadaEH]

It is the same wage scale for everyone (refuelers, tank farm operators, utility personnel and dispatchers.

The only exceptions are for licensed mechanics and apprentice mechanics.

There is also a premium for dispatchers whose job is like atc on steroids

ATC on steroids. Right.

[conehead]

Yup. You need a RAIC and a AVOP. Good to go.

[Maverick]

Yup. You need a RAIC and a AVOP. Good to go.

Neither of which is terribly challenging.

[boestar]

Damn near everyone on the ramp needs a RAIC and an AVOP. An no neither one is hard to obtain.

[DEFCON]

But why put people down?

Being a gas-jockey doesn't mean someone's brainless and incapable of even fixing, or flying the things. Like everything else in this business, if carelessness, or stupidity enters the equation in this area of the operation, real disaster can follow. I would prefer to see these people paid enough that the job attracts individuals with brains and not just those that can't do better than minimum wage employment.

And remember, whether you're flying, fixing, or cookie pushing in this business, your employer sees your wawcon as an impediment to profit and your skills as less than deserving of whatever it is that you make.

[boestar]

The whole issue is and was that consolidated (a Monopoly) was not providing the required service level to the airlines, not just Air Canada. That is not anyone's fault but consolidated. the choice to change providers is operational and economical. If your employer bids on a contract with a lowball offer you can expect that employer to higher the cheapest staff possible because he lowballed and now needs to make money, again NOT the airlines fault.

[DEFCON]

But what's that go to do with the denigration of a class of employees, or the dangers posed by the race to the bottom in every aspect of air carrier operations?

[boestar]

Nothing at all. That is just how the business works. The EMPLOYER makes all the money and the EMPLOYEE starves. Welcome to the new world

[Guest]

Nothing at all. That is just how the business works. The EMPLOYER makes all the money and the EMPLOYEE starves. Welcome to the new world

I think the new world is one in which a lot of folks don't think they make enough money, complain like hell about their employer but make no effort to seek employment with a firm that pays a better wage.

In our industry I also have seen groups, relatively well paid, allowing their company to create a new lower paid class of employee in a spin off company that takes over part of the better paid group's jobs.

[boestar]

That is becoming the "new" B-Scale. Spin off a new company, pay lower wages and less benefits, wait for attrition to deal with the original employees then merge. Voila Staffing cost reduction all done.

My issue is that the front line worker that is the one making money for the company gets peanuts while the CEO at the top makes a mint without really contributing to the operation specifically. I know the CEO has alot on his plate but really the money is made on the cutting edge of the knife not the handle.

[J.O.]

I think the new world is one in which a lot of folks don't think they make enough money, complain like hell about their employer but make no effort to seek employment with a firm that pays a better wage.

Similar in a way, but what I see is too many people expecting everyone else to take a pay cut so that they can get a deal, but those same folks railing at the notion that they themselves should take less to give someone else the same benefit. From fuellers to FAs to the local tire dealer, I've seen too many members of this forum who are more than willing to throw their own neigbour under the financial bus if it means a better deal for themselves.

As Roger Waters said, "I'm alright Jack but keep your hands off of my stack."

It's pathetic.

[deicer]

Pretty soon you won't get anybody working in aviation because of this.....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/us-business/ikea-to-increase-minimum-wage-as-it-seeks-to-reduce-turnover/article25088921/