A320 Down In France (Germanwings)

[acsidestick]

Anything being controlled remotely; drones, planes, cars, or switches are eligible for control interference, or pirated control. Imagine the terrorists glee to find out how easily they can hijack 6000 airliners at the same time.

[acsidestick]

ive removed that post. If the developing story is real, it will be here soon enough.

[Guest]

By the way, there may be a very big twist to this story being released shortly. Hint-its the story we all expected in the first place.

and that was?

[Moon The Loon]

I would think that having the ability to override the cockpit door lock from the ground (SOC office) could be an easier option. At least it would give the locked out crew member a chance to regain control. I know, both crew would have that knowledge but that would force the crew member doing the lock out to take action, kill or injure, the crew member trying to gain access. Perhaps that might make someone back down from a suicide. Just a thought.

Won't do any good if deadbolt is engaged. Given current technology, a remotely controlled airliner is just one more system to hack into. ISIL/ISIS is claiming responsibility for shutting down TV5 throughout France last week. Only steps away from interfering with aircraft systems, I fear.

[Guest]

Very lengthy article too large to post here

Germanwings Crash Exposes History of Denial on Risk of Pilot Suicide

By NICHOLAS KULISH and NICOLA CLARK

APRIL 18, 2015

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/world/europe/germanwings-plane-crash-andreas-lubitz-lufthansa-pilot-suicide.html?emc=edit_na_20150418&nlid=145194&_r=1

[DEFCON]

I have few if any meaningful answers to the dilemma at hand, just lot’s of questions.

I think it’s fair to say, we ‘all’ know that people taking mood altering pharmaceuticals do not appreciate the ongoing ‘side effects’ and often choose to alter does, schedules and sometimes even discontinue them altogether. After the fact we'll frequently hear the individual has misbehaved in some fashion and created quite a stir.

I’ll ask again.....knowing the facts, why does the regulator allow pilots to fly following a diagnosis necessitating continuous chemotherapy to ensure the patient remains functional?

[Guest]

DEFCON: you can not limit this to just pilots. It would have to be in effect for anyone in any transport related industry that has control of or performs maintenance on transportation vehicles. Then of course you would also need to provide alternate income for those folks as if you didn't such a ban would only force those affected to hide their disability.

Next would come anyone who is taking these type of drugs (bi-polar for instance) in the general population for instance who if they skip the drugs could commit acts of murder or violence and the list would go on and on and on. Where would / could you stop?

I was involved in setting up our first employee counseler (in concord with our major unions back in the 70s ) who was put in place so that our employees could seek help/guidence in dealing with their personal problems and this met with much success. We established the office up in a mall so that the employee could not be seen visiting the office, all records were sealed etc, private phone lines were put into place. In my opinion we saved a lot of troubled employees and did not lose their skills. There is of course a cost to this type of program but again in my opinion any cost was offset by the retention of skilled workers.

That was a number of years ago but if memory serves (and I could be wrong) the pilot group did not wish to participate in the program as they wanted to keep their problems within their flock.

Again my memory might be wrong, but talking about our major Canadian Airlines, does this type of program still exist and if so are the pilots included or ????

[Don Hudson]

The one I know of at AC is for flight crews only and has existed for decades; as part of the overall approach to employee health, other departments may have their own program or there may be an umbrella program for all other departments, not sure. The Program similarly operates on an entirely confidential basis.

[Guest]

The one I know of at AC is for flight crews only and has existed for decades; as part of the overall approach to employee health, other departments may have their own program or there may be an umbrella program for all other departments, not sure. The Program similarly operates on an entirely confidential basis.

Thanks Don, the one I was / am most familiar with is the one that started in the early 70s at CPAIR. I was lucky enough to be one of the "MANAGEMENT" secondments to the committee who did the actual hire of the 1st employee consul

. Truly Unions and Management working towards a common goal of saving troubled employees.

[Don Hudson]

I've discovered in conversations after the Germanwings tragedy that not all airlines have such a program; in fact I was surprised to find that it seems a rarity and that there is reliance on more formalized structures & processes to "handle" such circumstances where governance, authorization, relationship to other departments seemed to make the process more "public", which is the antithesis of the kind of process we're talking about here.

Naturally, the question of use arose, i.e., how do pilots "enter" the process, and, would pilots voluntarily enter the program or are they "chosen", how are they paid, who coordinates with management and association, what are the agreements, etc., behind the questions there being assumptions that this was an ordinary program with the traditional accountabilities and an otherwise "public" side, and of course it isn't. In fact there seemed from some a concern about how such a program could work outside the corporate and/or union structure, which actually says something about why such programs are perhaps not as widely established as I had thought. In fact, it seemed unique.

I had no detailed answers because the program is both anonymous and firmly set apart from traditional corporate goals, values and processes. Although the basis for confidentiality is less onerous, I liken this one particular aspect of the Program to the FOQA/FDM gatekeeper crew-contact process which is itself entirely confidential and independent from both management and pilot association/union oversight or accountability - it is no one's business except those doing the actual work; for such a program to work successfully it cannot be otherwise.

[airbrake]

The program I know best is at WestJet. I'm not saying it is the best, only that I know it the best. I

It was developed off the fundamentals off the P2P program at AC. Which, incidentally is still a great program.

Ours is run fully by volunteer pilots, it is supported by Flt Ops and the WJPA. The confidentiality is paramount to the program. As an example we have a confidential 1800# as well as website.

At WestJet it is called the Pilot Support Network.

The cornerstone of the program was for addictions/abuse and has now evolved to include 3 other pieces.

The volumteers aren't the professionals, only resource finders.

The success has proven to other groups the viability of such a program and is being used as a map for growth in other areas of the company for other employee groups.

[J.O.]

We were trying to establish a pilot assistance program at our company when I attended a week long seminar on the subject. It was hosted by WestJet but had participants from several operators.

From what I learned, the programs at AC and WS are both excellent and something to be very proud of. I met several fine aviators that week, some of who are an example of the program's success. Their personal stories certainly gave me perspective on the so-called problems in my own life. I hope that any attempt to legislate greater oversight on mental health of pilots won't threaten these excellent programs.

[Don Hudson]

J.O., re, "I hope that any attempt to legislate greater oversight on mental health of pilots won't threaten these excellent programs."

Precisely.

Some thoughts...

The notions of "accountability", "accreditation", "audit", "standards" and even "communication" are imbued with specific instrumental meaning which by their nature express the antithesis of human processes which account for foibles, failures and calamities of an entirely human nature. Such notions work in an organization only because they set aside the human factor in favour of an auditable, accountable, standard process which attends to specific business and procedural goals. SMS is such a process.

I hasten to add that such processes are necessary in their own context and are dehumanized for a purpose which is recognizable and legitimized by most participants, and can never be mistaken for "caring and compassionate" processes; sometimes the demarcation between the two is blurred. It is why such P2P programs are quietly staffed by volunteers first, with access to specialists when/where invited/needed. It is a big step towards the acceptance of both physical and mental health as being on the same footing with equal requirements for appropriate, timely responses until one is better.

I also think such programs would go a very long way in respecting German privacy laws which are the toughest in Europe if I'm not mistaken, and which were apparently factors in missing cues that have lined up in hindsight as to why this tragedy occured. I am surprised that such programs are not more widely known and implemented, even as the gulf between instrumental and human processes are in some countries, too wide for acceptance.

[airbrake]

An individual from German Wings was at a forum for Pilot Assistance that was held a few weeks ago in North America. It's slow, but peer groups are making their way into those airlines.

Rushing a poorly run/organized/driven peer group is worse than having nothing.

They are doing it properly from my observation. They are looking at all other programs out there and then picking the pieces that work best for their structure. The collaboration of all the different structures is truely encouraging.

The challenge is not allowing politicking to infiltrate the structures when these external pressures arise.

All groups are unique and won't/can't support all specific structures as they have evolved in N.America. If fear and ego get to drive the reason, poorly organized and structured programs will be built and WILL fail in spectacular fashion.

Programs that work are boring and not very media friendly.

The hardest part is getting pilots to accept that having these conditions/maladies isn't a reflection on their ability to fly or be professional. In fact just the opposite is true. A truely professional person can and will accept we are not perfect (not easy for pilots) and there are numerous things in our lives that we are incapable of fixing without assistance (again a hard thing for pilots to admit to). Once we as a group can open up to these realities improvement will be easier to come for a large portion of our professional group who are effected. Stigmatizing mental illness and questioning why so and so was able to fly (while depressed as an example) continues to drive it under ground.

The tide is shifting, it will be slow and patience is required. I know we will all be healthier for it once it takes hold.

[J.O.]

This will fix everything. Why didn't we think of this years ago.

Turkish Airlines (THY) CEO Temel Kotil has recommended to all unmarried pilots, who were part of a group that completed its training, to get married at the earliest. Speaking to some 86 newly trained pilots, Kotil said on Thursday that pilots' lifestyle' was critical in preventing them from falling to destructive behaviour.

Referring to last month's Germanwings crash, Kotil said it 'taught' him some important lessons. "The accident is said to have occurred after the co-pilot who caused the crash broke up with his girlfriend. So, friends, please know that we advise single pilots to get married," Kotil said during the meeting.

"Therefore, I am guiding those who are single towards marriage from this podium," he added with a smile, reported Associated Press.

Andreas Lubitz, the Germanwings co-pilot who killed 150 people on board, was reportedly receiving psychiatric counselling till the day of the crash, following a break-up with his girlfriend, whom he was planning to marry next year.

Meanwhile, the investigators recently found the second black box from the doomed Germanwings Airbus A320. It confirmed that Lubitz repeatedly accelerated the plane's descent into the French Alps.

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/after-germanwings-tragedy-turkish-airline-ceo-advises-single-pilots-get-married-629564

[mo32a]

Yeah, divorce is so easy with no acrimony or hard feelings, everyone should get married right away.

[DEFCON]

Divorce & adultery are offences punishable by death under the rules of play of a certain religious persuasion.

[Lakelad]

.

Germanwings crash: Co-pilot Lubitz 'practised rapid descent'

Wed May 06, 2015 - BBC News

The co-pilot of the Germanwings plane that crashed in the French Alps in March may have practised a rapid descent on a previous flight, a report by French investigators has said.

The report said Andreas Lubitz repeatedly set the plane for an unauthorised descent earlier that day.

Lubitz is suspected of deliberately crashing the Airbus 320, killing all 150 people on board.

He had locked the flight captain out of the cockpit.

The plane had been flying from Barcelona to Duesseldorf on 24 March.

The alteration of the flight settings occurred on the plane's outbound flight from Duesseldorf to Barcelona on the same day, the preliminary report by accident investigation agency BEA said.

If Andreas Lubitz "practised a rapid descent" on the outward leg of the Germanwings flight, then the obvious question is why did no-one spot it and ground him in Barcelona?

The interim French investigation report explains that puzzle. Over the course of three or four minutes, Lubitz did indeed designate "100ft" as the selected flight level. He did this several times, while the pilot was out of the cockpit.

But this was just after the plane had already begun its descent. After each occasion that he chose "100ft" he then corrected himself and entered the correct flight level. The course of the plane was not altered at all.

The picture that builds up is of a man steeling himself for the challenge he has set himself, building up the courage but at each point pulling back - until finally the pilot re-enters the cockpit and normality returns.

'It was also reset on one occasion to 49,000ft, the maximum altitude.'




.

[blues deville]

I think a more accurate description would be the pilot selected various altitudes on the FCU during a controlled descent as per an ATC clearance.

Perhaps an attempt to test this auto flight function for possible alarms or warnings?

[J.O.]

No one can truly understand what is going on within a troubled mind ...

[Lakelad]

.

Germanwings pilot feared he was going blind, consulted with 41 doctors before slamming plane into Alps

Friday June 12, 2015 - Associated Press
Jamey Keaten

PARIS — Fearing he was going blind, the co-pilot who slammed a Germanwings jet into the Alps took sick days at work, upped his dosage of an antidepressant, and reached out to doctors, but they didn’t tell his employer they thought he was unfit to fly because of German privacy laws, a French prosecutor said Thursday.

Marseille prosecutor Brice Robin presented new details of his criminal investigation into the case after meeting in Paris with many grieving relatives of the 150 people who died on the Germanwings flight co-piloted by Andreas Lubitz.

The March 24 crash, blamed on Lubitz, has put a spotlight on possible mental health issues involving flight crews.

Robin announced he was handing over his initial inquiry to three investigating magistrates who will try to determine who — if anyone — can be brought to trial in an involuntary manslaughter case in which the main culprit died in the crash.

The news came as families have just started to receive the remains of their loved ones for burials in the coming days and weeks.

The investigation so far “has enabled us to confirm without a shadow of a doubt … Mr. Andreas Lubitz deliberately destroyed the plane and deliberately killed 150 people, including himself,” Robin told reporters.

Investigators say Lubitz locked the pilot out of the cockpit and flew the plane into a French mountainside after having researched suicide methods and cockpit door rules and practiced an unusual descent.

In a new development, Robin said information from Lubitz’s tablet PC showed he had also investigated vision problems, and “feared going blind,” which would have ended the 27-year-old’s aviation career.

Lubitz, who had a history of depression, had seven medical appointments in the month before the crash, including three with a psychiatrist, and had taken eight sick days off work, Robin said. Some of the doctors felt Lubitz was psychologically unstable, and some felt he was unfit to fly, but “unfortunately that information was not reported because of medical secrecy requirements,” the prosecutor said.

'In Germany, doctors risk prison if they disclose information about their patients to anyone unless there is evidence they intend to commit a serious crime or harm themselves.'

.

[Don Hudson]

July 17, 2015

https://www.easa.europa.eu/newsroom-and-events/news/report-task-force-germanwings-flight-9525-european-commission

"Today, the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) delivered the report of the Task Force on the crash of Germanwings Flight 9525. The Task Force, led by the Agency, was assembled in May 2015 at the request of EU Commissioner for Transport Violeta Bulc. It analysed the preliminary findings of the crash investigation to assess the adequacy of European air safety and security rules. In today's report, the Task Force issues six recommendations, primarily calling for better checks on crew members. The Commission will now thoroughly examine these recommendations before deciding on future steps. For more information, you can read the report and the European Commission Press Release."

Report

[Jaydee]

Written by a Flight Attendant.

http://reizendoordewolken.nl/2015/03/29/to-my-colleagues-in-the-cockpit-proud-and-thankful

[Guest]

 

Europe

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Germanwings crash: Pilot confidentiality 'should be relaxed'

•  

French investigators have called for medical confidentiality to be relaxed for pilots, in the wake of last year's Germanwings disaster.

Co-pilot Andreas Lubitz was urged by a doctor to attend psychiatric hospital weeks before he crashed the plane on 24 March 2015, but his employer was never alerted, their final report says.

All 150 people on board died as Flight 9525 hit a mountain in the French Alps.

Investigators believe Lubitz brought down the plane deliberately.

He had been suffering from severe depression, they said, but doctors had been unable to disclose this.

The report, by the BEA investigation agency, said confidentiality had to be balanced with the risk an individual might pose to public safety and that "clearer rules" were needed.

It was also critical of pilots being able to make self-declarations about their health, which allowed them to hide any illnesses.

---

Lubitz medical visits weeks leading up to crash

• 17 February: Doctor issues eight-day sick note not forwarded to Germanwings; second doctor refers Lubitz to psychotherapist and psychiatrist for outpatient treatment of psychosomatic disorder and anxiety disorder

• 22 February: Second doctor issues sick note for three days

• 9 March: Third doctor issues sick note, end date unknown, not forwarded to Germanwings

• 10 March: Second doctor refers Lubitz for psychiatric hospital treatment due to possible psychosis

• 12 March: Second doctor issues sick note for 19 days, not forwarded to Germanwings

• 18 March: Fourth doctor issues sick note for five days

---

The head of the investigation, Arnaud Desjardin, said Lubitz had in December 2014 begun to show symptoms that "could be compatible with a psychotic episode" but this information was not passed on to Germanwings.

The report also calls for more stringent medical checks for pilots - it recommends regular analysis to check for "psychological or psychiatric problems".

But it has not suggested any change to cockpit rules. Lubitz was able to lock the pilot out of the cockpit while he crashed the plane, taking advantage of a system designed to prevent hijackings by attackers elsewhere on board.

"A lockage system cannot be created to prevent threats coming from both outside and inside the cockpit," Mr Desjardin said.

Many airlines now require at least two people to be in the cockpit at any given time.

Both Germanwings and its parent company Lufthansa have previously said that Lubitz, 27, had passed all tests of fitness to fly.

Lufthansa has also acknowledged that it knew the co-pilot had suffered from severe depression in 2009 while training for his pilot's licence.

---

• 1. 09:30 - The plane makes final contact with air traffic control
• 2. 9:30:55 - Autopilot is manually changed from 38,000ft to 100ft
• 3. 9:31 - The aircraft begins its descent above the French coast
• 4. From 09:33 - Air traffic controllers try to contact the pilots, with no response
• 5. 09:40:47 - Last radar position of the plane registered at 6,175ft, just 2,000ft above ground
• 6 09:41:06 - Cockpit recording ends at the moment of collision

The final 30 minutes

[DEFCON]

It's kind of ironic isn't it that privacy requirements denied even the Regulator of the information that would have protected the lives of 150 people, but after the  perps passing the entire world becomes entitled to know every detail of his medical history and more?

Canadian pilots do not enjoy this kind of protection. Here, the confidentiality expected in normal Dr. / patient relationships is expanded by law into a tripartite arrangement with the Regulators reasonable inclusion in the mix.

If Canadian pilots are required to give up their privacy protections in return for a licence to practice their art, is it proper for Canada to allow foreign carriers to operate in its airspace when there's such an obvious disparity in licencing standards?