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Two Canadian Airlines Using Temporary Foreign Pilots


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Two Canadian airlines using temporary foreign pilots Air Line Pilot Association says there are Canadian Pilots who could be doing the work

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) – It’s not just fast food joints hiring temporary foreign workers in Canada. The Air Line Pilots Associationis hoping the federal government will change regulations as two Canadian airlines use hundreds of temporary foreign pilots every year.

“We don’t have the exact numbers, but we believe last season, the winter season, there was close to 200 foreign pilots at Sunwing, and approximately 25 to 30 at Canjet,” says Captain Dan Adamus. He adds the airlines are able to hire foreign workers because they require pilots to have ratings required to fly a Boeing 737-NG. Adamus says that training is generally provided by the company after hiring because it can cost up to $40,000. He says securing pilots who already have the required training is much more economical for the airlines.

Even so, Adamus says there are Canadian pilots with the proper rating. “We feel that there’s qualified Canadians who can do the work. And we’ve been lobbying the government for many years trying to make sure that happens. Canadians should be first in line for these jobs.”

The other part of the reason the two discount airlines aren’t hiring Canadian workers according to Adamus is they only employ pilots during peak travel periods, not year round like other similar discount companies.

The issue came to light when Press Progress released a memorandum dated October 28, 2013, to the Minister of Employment and Social Development Jason Kenney about the two airlines securing foreign pilots despite the association claiming systematic exclusion of Canadian counterparts. The memorandum states the 737-NG aircraft is not commonly flown in Canada, so most local pilots cannot apply for jobs, but stakeholders have confirmed to the government it is unusual to require a specific rating in applications.

The memorandum states the the government intended to issue a statement indicating all future applications for foreign applicants should be submitted six months before work commences, but it’s unclear whether that happened.

Adamus says he’s hopeful round-table discussions on the issue with Economic Social Development Canada several months ago will bring about changes. This as the federal government makes changes the Temporary Foreign Worker Program in light of recent abuses.

Neither airline returned calls or emails for comment.

http://www.news1130.com/2014/05/12/two-canadian-airlines-using-temporary-foreign-pilots/

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Let me get this straight...this "rent a pilot" scheme has been going on for years now but it takes a bunch of disgruntled fast food workers complaining to the press before ALPA gets off their a** and starts complaining themselves...pathetic

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It's probably more a matter of convenience for the government. The fast food worker issue is generally small potatoes and the Conservatives obviously calculated this out, and in the end it is 'convenient' (votes/economic) for them to deal with.

The TFW pilot issue isn't so.

Longtimer asked:

So where would the "surplus Canadian Pilots" work during the off season?

The current CPA between Jazz & AC sees a significant reduction in block hours during the winter months- always has. So often there are LOA's granted during the winter months, and everyone else sees the monthly blocking average drop to levels approaching min guarantee. That's how the Jazz/Thomas Cook arrangement worked so well from a staffing point of view. Several Jazz pilots were on LOA's this past season, and they went to Sunwing. Obviously not an even balance, but it was beneficial for everyone in the end.

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Let me get this straight...this "rent a pilot" scheme has been going on for years now but it takes a bunch of disgruntled fast food workers complaining to the press before ALPA gets off their a** and starts complaining themselves...pathetic

More like nobody gives a **bleep** what rich unionized airline pilots have to say. Jonny Bagadonuts on the other hand...oops sorry just realized I forgot to Check My Privilege.

Carry on

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Let me get this straight...this "rent a pilot" scheme has been going on for years now but it takes a bunch of disgruntled fast food workers complaining to the press before ALPA gets off their a** and starts complaining themselves...pathetic

Actually ALPA has been trying to get this changed for years.

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Hello all.

There are more than two, that's for sure and it really irks me... I would love to work winters and have summers off too.

In any case, here are a few posts that are verbatim off the "other forum". They are by a gentleman who has done a lot of good work on this issue. I won't include his name here but I suspect many of you are aware of his efforts and, like me, appreciate the time and effort he has devoted to this.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I received in the mail this morning this file from ESDC. I contains all LMO applications made by Canadian aircraft operators for importing Temporary Foreign Worker Pilots in 2013. Because I made the application in late Oct 2013, the applications received after that date by ESDC in 2013 do not appear.

(They inserted a few applications from before 2013 by mistake on the CD, so check the date and just ignore those)

In essence, several commercial operators, aircraft manufacturers, private operators, Training outfits, and the the Royal Canadian Air Force applied for hundreds of foreign pilots in 2013.

There are a bunch of Helicopter Operators that imported helicopter pilots
Many crop dusting outfits imported crop dusting pilots.
CAE imported instructors
The RCAF imported British pilots
Sky Regional imported an Embraer 195 instructor (no 195 instructors in Canada I guess)
We are even importing low time instructors and bush pilots.....

It's time that Canadian pilots stood up for their rights and defended their jobs. For every TFW pilot admitted into Canada, one Canadian pilot was denied a job that was rightfully theirs.......

You can view the file yourselves..........


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/105 ... 202013.pdf

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

This next one isn't really new, some of you may recall that Australia did the same thing during the FRP in 1995 and grabbed a bunch of qualified CF pilots... interesting non the less:

The fact that the RCAF pilots jobs were given to non citizens is allowed by the law. The Minister can allow it like I said. It's wrong but legal.

The LMO aspect of the thing is illegal in my view. To have an LMO approved, one must demonstrate that there are no qualified Canadians for the job. They must advertise for the position to demonstrate that they were unable to find qualified Canadian applicants.

Here is what the ad might look like:

"The RCAF is looking for pilots. Requirements: must have military background, be under 35, have at least 500 hours as PIC on supersonic jets operated by a NATO Member, must have flown one in the past 24 months"

How many Canadian applicants would qualify ? None, right, unless they were themselves recent ex RCAF pilots. So then the RCAF is cleared to employ those foreign pilots since the RCAF demonstrated that there are no qualified applicants in Canada. If this is legal, than soon, all RCAF pilots will be Czechs, Slovaks, Polish, British, Italian, Spanish, Latvian and from Malta.

In the same line of thought, if Air Canada, Westjet and all the other Canadian airlines began advertising for pilot position but asked as a pre-requisite that all applicants be already type rated and current on the type they operate, that would open the door for ALL commercial pilots in Canada to be TFWs.

So is it legal what they did ? You tell me.

The RCAF, as far as I am concerned, acted like Sunwing and the MND acted like Martin Eley, the DGAC at TC when he blindly gave all these foreign pilots FLVCs the regulations did not allow.

Edit: The exchanges were different. "Exchange" is the key word. A bit like "reciprocity". The pilots went to each others country to gain experience and learn the others' ways to learn to work together in cases they ever went to war together. But the exchange pilots remained at the employ of their respective Air Forces. The were there for a stage, period and often it was on a exchange basis. They were not taking anyone's job. They were not killing a local kids' chance of making it in
the RCAF.

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This is just such a gross perversion of the intent of the program, I would think. And the companies using the exemption on the airline side are not even using the cover of providing an essential service; remote community access, medevac etc. Rather, they are vacation airlines taking holidaymakers out of the country to spend money. Another ridiculous chapter in the CPC's ongoing Operation March Break policy platform.

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Guest longtimer

It seems that lots of folks are against the temporary use of foreign workers doing jobs that could be filled by Canadians. Does that extend to the very simplistic aim of preventing "non Canadian Citizens" from filling jobs that could be filled by Canadian Citizens, would landed immigrants be exempt?

Reason I ask is that although there are a large number of Canadian Citizens without work and now that the subject of temporary foreign workers has hit the press and raised public interest, is there any guarantee that qualified Canadian citizens would take the jobs? Some would be seasonal, some would be low paid etc. Should the legislation be drafted that all jobs must be offered first to Canadian Citizens, then landed immigrants and lastly others? If so I can not imagine how that would work.

So we would be left with, all jobs must be filled by Canadian Citizens and no one is interested, then the jobs would be left vacant and the businesses that required the workers would then likely go out of business. Is that the direction we are headed towards, is this what we intend?

Specific to the use of non Canadian pilots, would the jobs only be offered to type qualified pilots (have I got that right?) or would the airlines concerned be required to train the temporary pilots on the various aircraft types? If so what would be the entrance level etc etc etc?

Just curious.

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I was talking with a waitress that I know from the coffee shop. She works at an upscale place down the street. She was making some ( a little) sense about hiring cheaper labour and then made a statement:

IT WOULD NOT BE SO BAD IF THEY JUST HIRED EUROPEANS AS FOREIGN WORKERS

I quit listening at that point.

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?Specific to the use of non Canadian pilots, would the jobs only be offered to type qualified pilots (have I got that right?) or would the airlines concerned be required to train the temporary pilots on the various aircraft types? If so what would be the entrance level etc etc etc?Just curious.

The jobs are currently only being offered to type qualified pilots and big surprise there aren't any. But you know who does hire non type-qualified pilots and fully bears the cost of training them on type? Every airline but Sunwing and Canjet! Air Canada, WestJet, air Transat, Porter, and dozens and dozens of others seem to have no trouble finding pilots.

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Let me get this straight...this "rent a pilot" scheme has been going on for years now but it takes a bunch of disgruntled fast food workers complaining to the press before ALPA gets off their a** and starts complaining themselves...pathetic

Actually ALPA has been trying to get this changed for years.

Hi, airt - Curious. What pejorative adjective would apply to folk who make unfounded snap judgments? Yep, ALPA (and ACPA) have been hammering at this for years. One wonders: this having been a well-known issue for any pilots who pay attention to their industry, where have you been?

Cheers, IFG :b:

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Here is another verbatim post (last one) by the same gentleman. I find the bogus job adds particularly vexing and this year I'm planning to follow his advice (below).

Before a company can apply to import foreign pilots as Temporary Foreign Workers, they must legally advertise the jobs for 4 weeks on industry publications and on either Job Bank or on one of the similar Provincially run Websites.

Often these ads are fake, in the sense that these companies have no intention of hiring you. They have already decided to hire a foreigner for the jobs and sometimes already contracted the foreigner out. The ad is just published because it is a condition ESDC has for approving the Labour Market Opinion, the process by which these foreigners are hired.

As I write these words, Job Bank has 56 ads for pilots in Canada:


http://www.jobbank.gc.ca/job_search_res ... 271&sort=M


If you suspect you are qualified for a job posted here but were overlooked in favor of a TFW, ESDC want to hear from you.

http://www.edsc.gc.ca/eng/jobs/foreign_ ... ndex.shtml

Abuse of the Temporary Foreign Worker Program will not be tolerated. To report misuse or abuse, contact:

Service Canada Confidential Tip Line
1-866-602-9448

integrity@servicecanada.gc.ca
Anonymous tips can also be provided to the Employer Contact Centre: 1-800-367-5693

If you want to know if a particluar company made a request for a foreign worker, you have to fill out an access to information request and mail it to ESDC. It costs $5.

Here is how to do it:


http://www.esdc.gc.ca/eng/transparency/ ... uest.shtml

Before a company can apply for a TFW, it must run the add 4 weeks. So wait at least for 4 weeks after the ad was posted before sending in your ATIP request, or else your request may arrive before the ATIP application from the employer.

But don't wait for that to let ESDC know that you are qualified for an advertised job if you suspect that this company is planning to hire foreign pilots. I will later post here a list of all Canadian Companies that hired TFW pilots in the past.

Canadian flying jobs for Canadians.

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IFG

I have followed this situation and Gilles Hudicourt's fight from the beginning. I will grant you that information garnered from multiple internet sites is not always reliable and I am sure that there are things going on "behind the curtain" but from what I have seen and NOT seen , I have come to the conclusion that ALPA is giving this a very low priority.

Just one of many threads on the subject for your perusal is "Addressing all Alpa Canada MECs on FLVCs" over on AvCanada

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Guest longtimer

IFG

I have followed this situation and Gilles Hudicourt's fight from the beginning. I will grant you that information garnered from multiple internet sites is not always reliable and I am sure that there are things going on "behind the curtain" but from what I have seen and NOT seen , I have come to the conclusion that ALPA is giving this a very low priority.

Just one of many threads on the subject for your perusal is "Addressing all Alpa Canada MECs on FLVCs" over on AvCanada

Just curious, where are ACPA and the WestJet pilot's association on this subject?

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.

Union objects to Air Canada outsourcing three routes

As the airline received the first of 37 sparkling new 787 jetliners on Sunday, a union representing some employees is crying foul over the outsourcing of routes to another airline’s staff.


Mon May 19, 2014 - Toronto Star
Tim Alamenciak

As Air Canada celebrates the arrival of its much-anticipated Boeing 787 Dreamliner, the union that represents some of its employees is speaking out against the decision to outsource two jets and staff to a foreign airline because of manufacturing delays with the new planes.

A note from management sent to staff Friday outlined the company’s plans to replace flights to Madrid, Lima and Bogota with so-called “wet leases” — airplanes from EuroAtlantic Airways that come with foreign flight attendants and pilots. The routes would have been flown by the second and third newly minted Boeing 787 planes staffed by Air Canada employees, but the jets are delayed.

The company received its first of 37 Boeing 787 Dreamliner jets on Sunday. Before it landed at Pearson International Airport around 3 p.m. Michel Cournoyer, president of CUPE’s airline division, said Friday’s memo cast a shadow over the jet’s arrival.

“This was such a slap in the face. We were so disappointed Friday, especially when we were planning to go to this event. The 787 for us is the future of Air Canada, we’ve been waiting for this aircraft for years,” said Cournoyer.

"It’s a shame that Air Canada, our national carrier, is outsourcing to foreign workers."

.


.

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A six week delay until the boys and girls get to fly the routes themselves...Big Deal !!!

Now if the wet lease is extended for a longer period of time..........then it would be time to get angry.... :103::Furious:

In the meantime.....get over it. :glare:

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A six week delay until the boys and girls get to fly the routes themselves...Big Deal !!!

Now if the wet lease is extended for a longer period of time..........then it would be time to get angry.... :103::Furious:

In the meantime.....get over it. :glare:

Ah, it's been a while since I heard some good huffing and puffing from CUPE. (Must be contract negotiations on the horizon, time for CUPE to show its members it remembers they exist and that the union does more than just collect dues and spend them).

Maybe a CUPE member can answer this? Are any CUPE members being laid off as a result of this wet lease? I mean the airline spooled up staffing for on-time delivery of 787s #2 and #3. Given CUPE's outrage over such outsourcing, it must mean that the number of CUPE members needed to operate those flights are being laid off for six weeks.

Or is AC not laying off CUPE members, in which case no one can really argue credibly that the airline is outsourcing for financial gain, which is the usual reason for outsourcing?

Aside from not wanting to appear acquiescent to an outsourcing contract, I don't see CUPE's outrage here. If the delayed deliveries aren't replaced from outside the existing fleet which is entirely spoken for during the summer peak, Air Canada might indeed have to lay off staff and certainly forego profit. (You know what profit is, CUPE? It's the thing you refer to when looking for contract improvements.)

Boeing is possibly paying for the wet lease anyway, and the circumstances certainly fall within the usual parameters of force majeure.

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I think CUPE's posturing too, looking for a similar deal that, from what I hear, the pilot group got. That would be to bid on the wet leased flights and be displaced with pay if your seniority allows you to hold it. And they really have to put up some kind of fight so it doesn't look like they agree with the outsourcing, whether it's for a day or a year.

AC can't lay off at mainline if it's hiring at rouge, and/or without offering us jobs at rouge first, so they're a bit stuck there. We're being offered additional unpaid leaves instead of laying people off, but the pilots' solution would be better for all as we're already overstaffed. Unpaid leaves are the same as people taking a voluntary layoff, really, it just satisfies the no layoff clause.

rouge is growing and hiring while we're stagnant due to the late arrivals of the 787 and the quicker pace with which the rouge aircraft and routes are leaving mainline. Not using the wet lease to fly for rouge instead of mainline until the 787's arrive was the kicker, I think. It wasn't explained to us very clearly why, given that a wet lease needed to occur, the 767s that are going to rouge couldn't be kept at mainline and the wet lease applied to rouge flying instead.

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A 6-8 week wet-lease isn't a big a deal to me and is understandable under the circumstances, but my sense is that AC could have made more of an effort to protect the work for its own crews than it appears to have made. Management didn't even approach CUPE on the subject until the deal with Euro Atlantic had already been reached.

CUPE is, as Moeman suggests above, reacting as it has to. The usual suspects among our membership are in a frenzy and are howling and shrieking on the internal message board.

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Guest longtimer

Talking about CUPE. Some friends went down to PVR on AC (group of 14) on the way down, great service,. on the way back Saturday night, tired old surly crew...... What a way to turn off 14 full paying passengers. Evidently there were a number of passengers who were quite vocal re the lack of service and plentitude of attitude.

Too bad that a good experience was changed into a bad one, of course the bad experience will stick longer than the good one.

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Talking about CUPE. Some friends went down to PVR on AC (group of 14) on the way down, great service,. on the way back Saturday night, tired old surly crew...... What a way to turn off 14 full paying passengers. Evidently there were a number of passengers who were quite vocal re the lack of service and plentitude of attitude.

Are you sure you got the "cause" and "effect" attributed correctly?

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Guest longtimer

Are you sure you got the "cause" and "effect" attributed correctly?

Yes, at least according to members of the group (parents and children) so no drunks etc.
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I think CUPE's posturing too, looking for a similar deal that, from what I hear, the pilot group got.

Does CUPE have wet-lease language? Does CUPE have scope language?

A little late to complain after the horse has left the barn.

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