The Definitive Once-And-For-All Answer Of Why Some Say "air Canada's 844"


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Epenthesis is not required, obviously, and we can say the two words seperarated by a small pause. The reason we unconsciously choose Epenthesis and not just a small pause between the words is to continue the fluidity of our speech."

Hey! That's what I said in the other thread, "I think it's just because it's slightly more difficult to say Air Canada_ 301 than it is to say Air Canada's 301. The first way requires you to complete the "a" sound which actually stops the airflow and then restart it to enunciate the number while the second just flows right out - try it."

Thanks for taking the time to post the authoritative, definitive, once-and-for-all, final answer. :Clap-Hands:

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Great research, and a reasonable and acceptable explanation...........however.................... I think it also it also proves that there must be a few lazy pilots, (verbal skills), in Canada because of the many, many airlines that have call signs that end with a vowel, and even more specifically the letter "a", the only one I have heard in many years of flying that add a possessive 's' on the end of their company name is based in Canada. :Grin-Nod:

Further, the explanation certainly holds for transmissions made where the aircraft company name ends with a vowel and flight number starts with a vowel, but is the explanation valid for those that use a "s" after CANADA if the flight number does not start with a vowel??

Only two numbers start with a vowel...ONE and EIGHT :Grin-Nod::biggrin2:

......hard hat and respirator on...flame away/pile on :Grin-Nod:

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Great explanation, acsidestick. Thanks for that.

So... being the wonderer that I am...

Why doesn't Lufthansa do it? Or Asiana, or Air China? Could be a mother tongue thing, I suppose...

But then, ATC in Canada or the US doesn't do it either. Maybe a combination of your daughter's explanation and Kip's.

The human machine intrigues me way more than anything mechanical or electronic, but I can at least explain a bit of the latter(s).

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Inchman:

I would think that when English is a second language, the user "formalizes" its use there by eliminating the occurrence. In other words they don't add the s because they don't know they can.

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Missed the other explanation in another thread, but I think it is a possessive s, conscious or not, for many pilots. For some the linguistic explanation likely holds, but for many I hear it as "Air Canada's [flight] 443." Has to be! To me I find it easier to say it correctly, but I've always consciously tried to have good R/T as a point of pride. I even say 'niner' like a complete dork! And if you think Jazz is hard....try rouge. And try saying it without over emphasizing it; for some reason it always comes out as ROUGE xxxx.

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So now we know why some add the "s" to the AC call sign......stop doing it!! ;)

A one- or two-word call sign is a piece-of-cake to say. How can you say "Jazz" or "Rouge" is difficult?

Adding more syllables just makes the pronunciation less "fluid".

Remember back in the early days of our flying careers when we had to use the civil ident of the aircraft? Some registrations just did not flow together.

I recall a Piper Warrior I used to fly that was C-GARN. GOLF ALFA ROMEO NOVEMBER did not work very well.

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Missed the other explanation in another thread, but I think it is a possessive s, conscious or not, for many pilots.

When I did say it, that was kind of my context, as I recall.

I recall a Piper Warrior I used to fly that was C-GARN. GOLF ALFA ROMEO NOVEMBER did not work very well.

Then there was CF-BBD.... "Bee-Bi-Dee the beacon final"... comes off the tongue like an auctioneer.

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Adding more syllables just makes the pronunciation less "

.

I agree. the Phrase Air Canada xxxx has either 7 or 8 syllables. That could have something to do with it overall. The point about Jazz is a good one too. If you say it with a flight number, there is a tiny almost indicernable ez before the number.
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The explanation above is certainly articulate and elegant, but FWIW my own sense (only from hearing it, I'm not with AC) has been of a possessive "'s" as well. Perhaps it's just a common 'tic', and simply picked up by the sort of social osmosis that often spreads behaviour.

When I flew in the Caribbean, it was very common on the freq's for "the" to be tacked on to the callsign e.g. , "the LIAT XXX", "the West Indian XXX (BWIA)" etc., and damned if I didn't find myself saying "the Tropic-Air", and briefly later on "the LIAT", too.

So I've never called out my AC friends for their own little R/T 'tic' ... :cool:

Cheers, IFG :b:

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Kim,

Phonetically speaking, "One" starts with the consonnant "W". I only have to make an effort with the "8" series flight numbers and I get away with it by calling them "Triple 8". :Grin-Nod:

Flix

Jazz has a YYZ-YYB flight with its number as "7777". Top prize for worst call sign yet. 9 syllables in one go. Ridiculous.

Usually gets shortened to "Quad 7".

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Maybe acsidestick's daughter can set up some speech therapy sessions to help those that are having trouble saying it correctly. ;)

Can ya imagine: acsidestick's daughter teams up with another long-time, highly valued AEF'er, former RCAF pilot, spelling and grammar expert (widely acknowledged, I might add)?

We'd have Forum Poster Nirvanna! :icon_anal::Clap-Hands:

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I was hoping for someone to comment on my favourite "big airline pilot on the radio" impression which starts in the lower register "uhhhhhahhhh centre it's Air Canada 123 with you at three five oh". What could the linguistic explanation be for the ahhhhhhh....? :biggrin1:

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l always thought that sounded like the FO trying to find his best whiskey voice before continuing with his transmission.... mind you I was indoctrinated to radio in a taxi, so whiskey voices were common, and comparatively, pretty realistic. :ninja:

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I think some of that went back to the days where you would key the mike and it would take a second or two to come on line, a lot of guys picked up the habit of "warming up" the radio, otherwise you would get clipped transmissions.

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I think some of that went back to the days where you would key the mike and it would take a second or two to come on line, a lot of guys picked up the habit of "warming up" the radio, otherwise you would get clipped transmissions.

Particularly if you were on a landline patch.

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