Pilot Shortage Is Here

[Kasey]

11 minutes ago, rudder said:

Millennials don't think the same as baby boomers or Gen X. Take a look around. Conditions on Day 1 do matter. And pay on Day 1 matters because the price of getting to the start gate is significantly higher than it was for previous generations of prospective commercial pilots.

Not so, it cost every red cent you had in 1950,1960,1970,1980, 1990, 2000 etc, as it does today! Just bigger numbers, still the same blood, sweat and tears. Nothing changes, the mgmt stiffs want you to do it for nothing and always will. 

It's all about the "want to fly" syndrome and how much you are willing to give to get the seat!

[Zan Vetter]

Starting pay only matters to the point you can pay the rent, have a car, and a data plan. Its a red herring that this is "the" systemic problem. It is "a" problem when employees in any enterprise can't afford to keep the lights on at home. But I don't believe it to be the root cause of this systemic lack of interest in the career as a whole. And at risk of sounding glib, who gives a crap what millennials think? Is the tail wagging the dog here? Millennials aren't making some kind of advanced cost/benefit analysis of the starting pay vs cost of entry, they're seeing a decade and a half of bankrupt airline headlines. Their Dads and Moms burnt out, broke, depressed, laid off, gone overseas, pensions gone. Most airline kids born 1985-1995 lived through some pretty bleak times during the years when they were deciding what to do with their lives. Didn't airline kids used to be a fairly major source of fresh blood?

Poor starting pay is a result of CH.11 and CCAA consultants gone mad, and is being corrected slowly as CBAs open up in non-bankruptcy, non recessionary bargaining for the first time in over 10 years. But that isn't going to help attract pilots at the margin. The mom and pop, the tier III, or even medium sized CPA carriers can't be expected to lead the way for the whole industry on this. A bit of the lustre needs to be restored by the big boys with some headline grabbing across the board pay increases at major first-world airlines for the pendulum to start meaningfully swinging back to the other way.

[boestar]

The key word when they are looking for pilots is "QUALIFIED"  in order to reduce their costs, the airlines look for pilots who are already "qualified" on an aircraft type. If you already have 3000 hours in a 787 and the airline is looking for 787 pilots then their training curve is reduced since you already know the aircraft.  You see ads all the time for 737 pilots.  Entry level pilots are not "Qualified" therefore there is a shortage.  There are lots of pilots out there just none "qualified" to fly the right equipment.

 

[rudder]

'Qualified' is whatever it costs to get to an ATP certificate and the required level of education (whether that be diploma level or degree level). 

[rudder]

Porter Airlines First Officer Recruitment Program (PAFOR Program)

Porter Airlines and its partnering flight schools are excited to announce the introduction of the Porter Airlines First Officer Recruitment Program (PAFOR Program). 

Students selected by Porter Airlines for participation in the PAFOR Program will be paired with a Porter Airlines pilot who will act as a mentor to help provide guidance in their career development. Once a candidate from the PAFOR Program has accumulated between 1,000 and 1,500 hours and IATRA/ATPL written, he/she will be placed in an interview pool for a First Officer Position with Porter Airlines. 

Porter Airlines recognizes the value in getting some flying experience before joining an airline as well the importance of mentorship. Pilots will meet their mentors at the Porter Open House in June. The focus of the mentoring is to provide general guidance and not “how to get to Porter our way”. We want to help you put your best foot forward and guide you along a path that is suited to you, will make you happy and allow you to succeed at your best! 

Pilots graduating from one of the following schools and programs in 2016 or 2015 may apply to the PAFOR Program:
Brampton Flight Center - Integrated Airline Transport Pilots Licence Program
Waterloo Wellington Flight Center - Conestoga College Aviation General Arts and Science Diploma, University of Waterloo Aviation BES/BSc
University of Western Ontario - Commercial Aviation Management Program
Moncton Flight College - Mount Allison Bachelor of Science in Aviation, Diploma in Aviation Technology IATP, IATP/ICPC Program
Seneca College - Bachelor of Aviation Technology, Airline Pilot Flight Operations Program
Algonquin College - Aviation Management Program

Eligibility Criteria:
Graduating students from select flight schools may apply to the PAFOR Program online via the following link. https://portercareers.rivs.com/58-67-18/

The application portal will open May 1st 2016 and close May 31st. 
Students are required to self-identify and apply to the PAFOR Program. Students who have successfully completed their program (or are forecast to soon) may apply. Applicants that do not meet the criteria below may still apply but require a recommendation from the program delegate.

• Minimum GPA of 3.00
• Completion of program within the prescribed time frame
• No fails on TC Flight Test (partial passes are acceptable)
• No failed courses during program of study
• Recommendation from program CFI, DFO, Program Chair or senior instructor
• Demonstrated high level of professionalism and personal deportment while completing the Flight Training Unit (FTU) program of study. Attendance, punctuality, and conduct as would be expected from an aviation professional
• Demonstrated strong work ethic, and self discipline. Is friendly, courteous and displays leadership potential at the FTU and/or within the community
• Legally able to work in Canada and obtain a Restricted Airside Access Identification Card (RAAIC)


Application Process:

1. Complete application profile through this interview portal
2. Upload cover letter and resume
3. Proof of available flight test results required
4. Proof of available TC written exam results required
5. Copy of Academic Record required
6. Porter Airlines values safety-minded individuals who share our enthusiasm for delivering best-in-class customer service. In 2-3 paragraphs, tell us why you want to join the Porter team and how you would add value to our culture


Successful candidates will be invited for a preliminary interview to be completed at the Flight Training Unit or Porter Airlines.

For students that may not have completed the FTU’s training program by the application deadline, the CFI or Program head will be contacted about the candidate's application and he/she will be considered for the PAFOR Program selection on a case-by-case basis. 

[boestar]

1 hour ago, rudder said:

'Qualified' is whatever it costs to get to an ATP certificate and the required level of education (whether that be diploma level or degree level). 

Except when the specify in the job ads that they want B-737 QUALIFIED pilots only.

There are a few of those around granted but what if it said B-787 Qualified?  I bet you don't find any of those in the wild as yet

 

[Mitch Cronin]

6 hours ago, rudder said:

'Qualified' is whatever it costs to get to an ATP certificate and the required level of education (whether that be diploma level or degree level). 

I'm just guessing, but that whole quote tells me you aren't giving much thought to the 'education' one acquires while attaining that ATP licence....  you're not a pilot, are you? 

[DEFCON]

'Qualification' is a relative term that's based on a few parameters which include, a licence appropriate to the task, overall experience, time on a type, or similar and general time in rank.

Regardless, excepting the licence, demand would seem to be the most influential factor when it comes to determining the relativity of an applicants 'qualifications' for a given position.

 

[Wolfhunter]

 I would even take it a step further, the lack of a current PPC is a deal killer… on 3 occasions it has been for me anyway. In other words, you have the job if you’re willing to spring for the cost of proficiency based sim training leading to a fresh PPC.

 

So rudder, pilot yes or pilot no? If pilot yes you have a different windshield than me... same cockpit as Zan Vetter perhaps? Or, after 25 years or so, do you expect a bit more than rent money. Everyones circumstances are different I guess, for me, ya gots to beat the truck driver thing.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Wolfhunter

[rudder]

On May 12, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Mitch Cronin said:

I'm just guessing, but that whole quote tells me you aren't giving much thought to the 'education' one acquires while attaining that ATP licence....  you're not a pilot, are you? 

I am including the cost of training and the cost of education. Those investments alone are significant. Add whatever value you choose to assign the experience accumulated to achieve ATP certification. After all of that - does a job for $36,000 represent value for the investment? I think not.

[rudder]

18 minutes ago, Wolfhunter said:

 I would even take it a step further, the lack of a current PPC is a deal killer… on 3 occasions it has been for me anyway. In other words, you have the job if you’re willing to spring for the cost of proficiency based sim training leading to a fresh PPC.

 

So rudder, pilot yes or pilot no? If pilot yes you have a different windshield than me... Same cockpit as Zan Vetter ?

I don't know what posts you have been reading but the point that I am trying to make is that entry level compensation for commercial pilots with ATP certification and post secondary academic credentials is not on par with entry level compensation for any other professional vocation that invests $100k+ in accreditation.

[Wolfhunter]

On May 12, 2016 at 0:04 PM, rudder said:

'Qualified' is whatever it costs to get to an ATP certificate and the required level of education (whether that be diploma level or degree level). 

It was this post...

Yes or no?

Edited May 13, 2016 by Wolfhunter

[DEFCON]

Can anyone explain, or justify the supposed value, or relevance of a Bachelor of Commerce Degree for instance, to a potential employer, or even the individual pursuing a career as an air carrier pilot?

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

22 hours ago, DEFCON said:

Can anyone explain, or justify the supposed value, or relevance of a Bachelor of Commerce Degree for instance, to a potential employer, or even the individual pursuing a career as an air carrier pilot?

I guess it demonstrates a certain desire to learn but like you I am not sure what it would add to any vocation outside of commerce. But perhaps it would prepare a pilot to wisely spend his / her excess money that burns a whole in their pocket on their many days of,  we all have heard the tales of woe re pilots who thought they were businessmen..

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DEFCON]

I ask because airlines have from time to time over the years favoured candidates in possession of a degree, relevant to the field, or not.

If the air carriers are facing a very long & dry spell where they can't find ATP's, is it wise to be sending a message to high school age kids that degrees are favoured in the present environment knowing the wannabe will waste 3 or 4 years pursuing B.Comm's and the like before they enter the proper stream?   

[blues deville]

ILS/NPA confusion?

https://www.aeroinside.com/item/7573/china-eastern-a320-at-wenzhou-on-mar-20th-2011-clipped-trees-on-approach?utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=20160520

[Canoehead]

Quote

That's the second serious approach/missed approach accident for China Eastern in a couple of weeks

About 5 years apart no?

[Canoehead]

Even still... 5 years apart in similar incidents is pretty close!

[Guest]

Seems that the FAA may be taking another look at their Min. time requirement.  http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/news/2016/09/02/looming-pilot-shortage-has-faa-considering-lower.html

 

[Zan Vetter]

This is a bit like lowering approach minimums because of too many missed approaches. The minimums are there why? SMH

[J.O.]

Malcolm, FYI there should be a prompt to "remove formatting" when you paste text from another source. Makes it look a little cleaner.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, J.O. said:

Malcolm, FYI there should be a prompt to "remove formatting" when you paste text from another source. Makes it look a little cleaner.

Believe me, I removed all that I could. 

[Guest]

Thanks Don: I do know that process also but I was intent on removing the pictures and the captions that went with the pictures.  Thanks though for your suggestion.  I have fixed the original post (made it much smaller and tidy 

[Don Hudson]

1. 
2. On the FAA's minimum time, I always thought that that was using a sledge hammer to kill a gnat. There's much more to "pilot" than what "1500hrs" can do. I know guys who started flying transports at ~300hrs. They had the ability to think, take constructive criticism from experts, (now called "mentors" or "coaches" for heavens sake), and a solid understanding that aviation is dangerous because it involves high speed and being very high off the ground!

[GDR]

" being very high off the ground! ' but Don that's a good thing. It's that last foot above the ground that can be really troublesome.