It Has Been Noticed.............

[Kip Powick]

This is a piece of literature that was passed to me by a friend. I don't know who was the original author but hopefully she/he doesn't take issue with the fact that I have taken the liberty to modify the document to fit 'our forum' ...as I believe a lot of the content to be applicable to many of us that frequent AEF.

No matter what forum, blog, or website you enter - anytime there is an invitation for commentary you are going to encounter the many comments that you may agree or disagree with. What baffles me is when posters allow comments from people they do not agree with to really hit them on a personal level. Personal enough to enter defensive mode where they begin to form circular arguments, throw petty attacks and insults that are really not related to the original discussion and that make no sense to anyone. Whether it is a discussion on suicide, religion, race, aircraft, the government, the environment, aircraft performance, airlines….. whether they be Canadian or global,..... plus a myriad of other subjects that we see posted here, at one point someone is bound to take a non-personal comment personally and begin with character assassinations that are completely arbitrary and unfounded.

At times we see that…………….

If you voice your opinions based on fact - you're just wrong, ignorant and don’t understand the real issue (aka saying what they want to hear)

If you ask for evidence behind a serious discussion/argument - how dare you ask such a thing? Why are you trying to probe such a matter, when everyone else blindly agrees with me?!

If you suggest an alternative idea - you're disgusting and should be pitied about your existence.

If you support only what your airline is doing, you are a lemming, and have no regard for other ideas, even if they are valid and/or informative.

If you don't agree with a member who seems to be more conversant and perhaps better with prose, then you are clearly ignorant, shouldn't be allowed to post, and most likely are uneducated and most certainly uninformed.

If you don't feel empathy towards anyone committing suicide - than you are a sociopath that needs education on the matter.

The list continues. When we read such comments from an overly sensitive poster one thing still remains ………… their inability, or lack of interest, in discovering the truth behind an issue or idea. It seems they feel that........“ If you aren't with them than you must be against them”.

If you, as a poster, show any sign of questioning their experience this equates to you minimizing their experience which results in their justified verbal attack against you as an individual. We all understand that trolls do exist online, and they take pleasure in orchestrating such a mess however that reason alone doesn't answer the question……………..

Why are there many people online that are overly sensitive to the fact that there just might be someone out there that doesn’t agree with them? Why can't they accept that not everyone shares the same experiences, or views as they do and that fact is perfectly okay?

Ok, then should you engage with people who trigger you to behave, shall we say, "erratically"? Shouldn’t people be allowed to voice their opinions and ideas online through, this forum without being attacked, whether it be by ‘discrete?’ verbal innuendos or unwritten tangential lashes. Perhaps it is time to really consider what you are about to post, under the cloak of anonymity, and ask yourself…..would I really say this in front of all these people who do frequent this forum if they knew who I was? If nothing else…how about we all play fair??

[JL]

I find this forum, or any other forum, the opportunity to exercise one's skills in critical thinking. Richard Dawkins in a letter to his 10 year old daughter:

Next time somebody tells you something that sounds important, think to yourself: 'Is this the kind of thing that people probably know because of evidence? Or is it the kind of thing that people only believe because of tradition, authority or revelation?' And, next time somebody tells you that something is true, why not say to them: 'What kind of evidence is there for that?' And if they can't give you a good answer, I hope you'll think very carefully before you believe a word they say.

These forums also allow me to exercise my ability to change my thinking to realize I may have been wrong and that I have to do some reading! It's all good stuff...too bad emotions get in the way from time to time.

[Moon The Loon]

Wow, Kip. I suggest you "can" (movie talk for "save") your post for the "next" time. (Could certainly have used it the last 3x! )

[Mitch Cronin]

Damn! This forum tells me I've "liked" my quota for the day... otherwise I'd be liking this whole thread!

[Moon The Loon]

Damn! This forum tells me I've "liked" my quota for the day... otherwise I'd be liking this whole thread!

I got the same "rude" message from the Admin's as well, Mitch...

HEY, wait a minute....!!!!!

[Mitch Cronin]

...I'll bet Alt* and Pilot's Wife don't have quotas... maybe we should start a petition?

[Mizar]

I know exactly what you are talking about Kip. I have had people put up a troll cartoon in response to a reasoned argument. When I posted factual information about aerodynamics backed up by official report from an accident investigating agency, I was hinted at several times to be dangerous and mocked by others all on a thread about aviation safety not a political one. I have seen posts where a factual statement leads to a response of spring-loaded toward racism.

There is nothing wrong with opinion and disagreement, it is just how you do it.

But we do have moderators, so I guess they are making sure we stay within limits.

[mrlupin]

On the Troll topic,

A U of Manitoba study just came out on Trolls...

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/climate_desk/2014/02/internet_troll_personality_study_machiavellianism_narcissism_psychopathy.html

Internet Trolls Really Are Horrible People

28.6k 4.4k 455

Narcissistic, Machiavellian, psychopathic, and sadistic.

By Chris Mooney

The Internet is sadists' playground.

Medioimages/Photodisc

In the past few years, the science of Internet trollology has made some strides. Last year, for instance, we learned that by hurling insults and inciting discord in online comment sections, so-called Internet trolls (who are frequently anonymous) have a polarizing effect on audiences, leading to politicization, rather than deeper understanding of scientific topics.

That’s bad, but it’s nothing compared with what a new psychology paper has to say about the personalities of trolls themselves. The research, conducted by Erin Buckels of the University of Manitoba and two colleagues, sought to directly investigate whether people who engage in trolling are characterized by personality traits that fall in the so-called Dark Tetrad: Machiavellianism (willingness to manipulate and deceive others), narcissism (egotism and self-obsession), psychopathy (the lack of remorse and empathy), and sadism (pleasure in the suffering of others).

It is hard to underplay the results: The study found correlations, sometimes quite significant, between these traits and trolling behavior. What’s more, it also found a relationship between all Dark Tetrad traits (except for narcissism) and the overall time that an individual spent, per day, commenting on the Internet.

In the study, trolls were identified in a variety of ways. One was by simply asking survey participants what they “enjoyed doing most” when on online comment sites, offering five options: “debating issues that are important to you,” “chatting with others,” “making new friends,” “trolling others,” and “other.” Here’s how different responses about these Internet commenting preferences matched up with responses to questions designed to identify Dark Tetrad traits:

E.E. Buckels et al, "Trolls just want to have fun," Personality and Individual Differences, 2014.

To be sure, only 5.6 percent of survey respondents actually specified that they enjoyed “trolling.” By contrast, 41.3 percent of Internet users were “non-commenters,” meaning they didn’t like engaging online at all. So trolls are, as has often been suspected, a minority of online commenters, and an even smaller minority of overall Internet users.

The researchers conducted multiple studies, using samples from Amazon’s Mechanical Turk but also of college students, to try to understand why the act of trolling seems to attract this type of personality. They even constructed their own survey instrument, which they dubbed the Global Assessment of Internet Trolling, or GAIT, containing the following items:

I have sent people to shock websites for the lulz.

I like to troll people in forums or the comments section of websites.

I enjoy griefing other players in multiplayer games.

The more beautiful and pure a thing is, the more satisfying it is to corrupt.

Yes, some people actually say they agree with such statements. And again, doing so was correlated with sadism in its various forms, with psychopathy, and with Machiavellianism. Overall, the authors found that the relationship between sadism and trolling was the strongest, and that indeed, sadists appear to troll because they find it pleasurable. “Both trolls and sadists feel sadistic glee at the distress of others,” they wrote. “Sadists just want to have fun ... and the Internet is their playground!”

The study comes as websites, particularly at major media outlets, are increasingly weighing steps to rein in trollish behavior. Last year Popular Science did away with its comments sections completely, citing research on the deleterious effects of trolling, and YouTube also took measures to rein in trolling.

But study author Buckels actually isn’t sure that fix is a realistic one. “Because the behaviors are intrinsically motivating for sadists, comment moderators will likely have a difficult time curbing trolling with punishments (e.g., banning users),” she said by email. “Ultimately, the allure of trolling may be too strong for sadists, who presumably have limited opportunities to express their sadistic interests in a socially-desirable manner.”

[Mizar]

Good article Mr Lupin. Unfortunately, some people think that having information posted that proves a point is trolling. But it is not, as I'm sure you well know.

Sort of like the racism accusation when a politically incorrect but accurate statement is made.

[Moon The Loon]

At the risk of being labeled (libeled?) same, perhaps a timely article in the TG&M?

Online ‘trolls’ show signs of being sadists, psychology study finds

Michael Babad

The Globe and Mail

Published Tuesday, Feb. 18 2014

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/top-business-stories/online-trolls-show-signs-of-being-sadists-psychology-study-finds/article16930003/

The 'everyday sadist'

Internet “trolls” appear to have some extreme personality issues, based on the results of a new study.

They show signs of being sadistic and Machiavellian, says the recent study by Erin Buckels, a University of Manitoba psychology graduate student, and psych professors Paul Trapnell of the University of Winnipeg and Delroy Paulhus of the University of British Columbia.

[Don Hudson]

Anonymity in combination with the power to communicate with millions of people at once brings a new dimension to the reasons behind civility in personal exchanges.

While almost everyone here would quite quickly recognize "something different" in any face-to-face communication with a person who was expressing the kinds of serious issues described in the articles, online masks and performance-anonymity prevent such traditional human recognitions and the accompanying wariness. We tend to give a larger benefit of the doubt online than we otherwise might, (lest, perhaps, we be judged ourselves, but it's also about basic decencies).

I must admit when my flags go up, they do so more quickly now than they used to and I simply set aside all communication with those so flagged in order to focus on those I know can and will engage in earnest discussion. Tolerance for disagreement is different than tolerance for dismissal.

Eventually, my Dad would say, people prove themselves in one way or another. I think he provided good advice for the growing boy.