Why So Few Women Pilots

[Kip Powick]

I would say that we are post-feminist in aviation, for the most part. Competence rules. Regarding your statement that confidentially most male pilots will "admit" that females are smoother? Have you ever met a pilot? Admitting something like that, even about another male pilot, is not in the DNA. Sounds good but sorry, not true.

If I count, then Mitch has met 'a' pilot and I would think he has met many, especially in his trade.

Wow !!! If I read this correctly you have never complimented a fellow driver on his/her skill, (including smoothness).... or............................. you have never been complimented on your own skills...... That, my friend is a very sad, sad statement,(if I am reading it correctly).

Good grief, I was a QFI/check pilot, on different types, for about a total 9 years and met many a pilot who I considered smoother than me, and made the notation of such in their training files....any pilot who feels he is the smoothest in the aviation field has let ego overrule common sense.

[Mitch Cronin]

Kip..... I'm pretty sure he meant that as a joke.... sarcasm. (maybe not though... I guess we'll see?)

[Guest rozar s'macco]

Good grief. Yes, compliments are positively flying around everywhere all the time. But no, I've never heard anyone say that women are categorically smoother. I think that's a ridiculous statement, actually. As you say, there is a wide variety of humanity occupying the pilots seats of commercial aircraft. That would be no different than saying that jews make better landings, or gays sure can shoot an ILS pretty good. Ridiculous.

[Mitch Cronin]

But no, I've never heard anyone say that women are categorically smoother. I think that's a ridiculous statement, actually. As you say, there is a wide variety of humanity occupying the pilots seats of commercial aircraft. That would be no different than saying that jews make better landings, or gays sure can shoot an ILS pretty good. Ridiculous.

Crikey, if that is what I said then I'd agree that's ridiculous! What I meant to say, or should have said(?) is that if there was anything I could say that has been notably repeated among pilots I've talked with about this particular subject, it would be "they seem to fly smoother than men". Sorry if I exaggerated that?

[Mitch Cronin]

I'd ask where the hell are all the women on this board, but Gatekeeper would be all over me for that.

[Mizar]

I suppose in the end, the skill level is probably similar but having flown with so few(less than 1% of all pilots that I have flown with), I cant make a reasonable judgement. But it does confirm what the initial post said, very few females are attracted to this activity. On the other hand, there seems to be female ATC all over the place(I prefer because higher pitch voice is easier to understand). The medical profession is attracting a large number of female doctors.

Why, because they think differently and this affects what they want to do. So, good paying jobs in construction and working in sewers just dont attract females in the same numbers as males. Expanding further, it appears that politics in some circumstances does as we have half our premiers as females. Personally, I think that a job such as ATC where you are helping others, doctors where you are helping others, politician where you are helping others explains why the higher percentage of females. Sweaty, dirty jobs or mechanical-electrical stuff just doesnt fit with average female thinking.

Which takes us to CEO. As a business person, you are typically investing your own money for your own return. Typically, long hours are required in management at the sacrifice of family life. But that is a choice, like so many other things in life. So we choose what profession we want based on how we feel it will affect us. Sure there are other considerations as well. But, the reason there are much less females as CEOs and BOD members in public companies has almost nothing to do with a so-called glass ceiling and almost everything to do with, females on a much larger scale are not interested in this type of career as men.

So when the social engineering types come up with ideas or policies that are designed to give one gender an unfair advantage or force a company to hire unqualified people onto their BOD, it is bigotry based on the mindless assumption that all people regardless of gender have the same career desire and that discrimmination can be the only the reason for the skewed gender ratios instead of the reality of how different genders think.

[boestar]

Why does it make a difference whether the pilot is male or female? I know female pilots that are excellent at it and I know male pilots that should not be flying airplanes. Without any quantifiable evidence everything is just personal opinion. My first flying instructor at Brampton was female and a very capable pilot. She has now moved into flying big planes somewhere and I am sure is doing very well. I know she taught me well.

[DEFCON]

"I know female pilots that are excellent at it and I know male pilots that should not be flying airplanes"

Me too!

[Kip Powick]

And "thru the mill" came a few female pilots that shouldn't have been flying as well...(some were the first females out the end of the DND pipeline and someone, in their wisdom, decided their first tour should be C-130s).

[Kip Powick]

Rich,

It is more complicated than "should the females have been treated differently". I can not speak for their 'treatment' during their pilot training, (I was not there) and they were definitely not treated any differently from their male counterparts while undergoing C130 conversion.

When the ladies arrived, it was that time in the CF where different Commands were complaining about the fact that they always got 'pipe-liners' and were also complaining that the C130 Squadrons never got 'newbies', they always got pilots who had at least one tour on another aircraft type to garner experience and flight hours. Someone in Disneyland North decided to change the rules and the C130 Squadrons got their first pipe-liners and conversion became a more trying experience for all concerned and much to 'political.

From experience, there were a few male pipe-liners that should not have been sent to the C130s as well....but again...there was politics at play. You also have to realize this tour, immediately on C130s, for females was also a PR phase for 'equality' in the CF. You may remember that one of the first females to get into pilot training was on Front Page Challenge and the Press was following her every footstep.

You can imagine the pressure on the COs and Squadron Commanders to ensure everything looked fine.

I was there during their C130 conversion as a check pilot/ICP and suffice to say there was a lot of interference from the others in the system that were determined to ensure these selected individuals 'met the standard'.

I think a couple of these, individuals, (females), are still around so I certainly will not go into detail about the 'interference' but I can say a few of us were not popular with the upper echelon when we stated that the "standard" had not been met during different phases of their C130 conversion.

Certainly there are excellent female pilots in DND but in the case of the initial females on the C130s, it was a rush-rush decision to institute training the first few without having a larger pool to select from.

As a personal note, I think it is very unfair to ask any Military pilot to pop out of the training mill and become a worldwide qualified Captain on a multi-motor machine with a crew of 5 or 6 in the normal time of 18-24 months, (which is the normal time for a pilot who has had a previous flying tour on another aircraft type. "Other" statistics support my statement as well.

Should you want more specifics concerning 'what really happened', PM me.

[boestar]

Kip: What you are saying then is that there should be no difference between female and male pilots so long as both are run through identical training regimes. I am sure that if the initial females were "rushed" through the training then the standard of training was insufficient to enhance skills before being released to the Herc. I assume that in the hierarchy of the military this would, at the same time, placed them in a command position which they may also have not received the requisite training.

[Kip Powick]

Kip: What you are saying then is that there should be no difference between female and male pilots so long as both are run through identical training regimes. I am sure that if the initial females were "rushed" through the training then the standard of training was insufficient to enhance skills before being released to the Herc. I assume that in the hierarchy of the military this would, at the same time, placed them in a command position which they may also have not received the requisite training.

Well, uh..OK ,

I think what you said is a fair assessment of the past situation but the 'standard' was met by all pilot graduates but as we all know, some individuals 'meet the standard' at a much lower level than others and that is true in every profession, no matter what the gender.

As you stated, the rush to get these people through was probably a contributing factor in addition to their lack of proficiency, (met....... but at the low end of "the standard"), but the main factors that were the most contributing to this situation was the PR factor and again, in my opinion, the lack of candidates to choose from coupled with a lack of actual flying experience.