Sunwing Delay At Yyc

[blues deville]

Perhaps rather than compare how well WS manages passenger complaints to other carriers, such as Sunwing in this case, just relay the news articles and let the readers make their own assessment of the situation. I know for a fact that WS had its growing pains too like any other successful business, but to constantly tell forum readers of how your favourite airline "does it" seems to get people going.

I am positive WS has some great policies when it comes to dealing with customers and complaints. I know for a fact you don't have to wait very long to speak with a WS rep when you call up. I think that's always been the situation. My last experience to cancel a ticket and get a partial refund was well handled by the WS agent. They also fully refunded a seat selection charge which completely surprised me.

No doubt Sunwing has their work cut out for them when it comes to contract ground handlers. It's an long time airline industry problem. And no one really and truly gives a crap when it's not their airline's name of the side of the plane.

The last quality charter airline is this country was Wardair. Not sure why no one wants to even try to be as good as they used to be.

[Thebean]

Perhaps rather than compare how well WS manages passenger complaints to other carriers, such as Sunwing in this case, just relay the news articles and let the readers make their own assessment of the situation. I know for a fact that WS had its growing pains too like any other successful business, but to constantly tell forum readers of how your favourite airline "does it" seems to get people going.

I am positive WS has some great policies when it comes to dealing with customers and complaints. I know for a fact you don't have to wait very long to speak with a WS rep when you call up. I think that's always been the situation. My last experience to cancel a ticket and get a partial refund was well handled by the WS agent. They also fully refunded a seat selection charge which completely surprised me.

No doubt Sunwing has their work cut out for them when it comes to contract ground handlers. It's an long time airline industry problem. And no one really and truly gives a crap when it's not their airline's name of the side of the plane.

The last quality charter airline is this country was Wardair. Not sure why no one wants to even try to be as good as they used to be.

Maybe because no one wants to end up like they did.....

[blues deville]

Well the only really big mistake poor Max did besides landing his brand new Fox Moth on a partially closed Kenora runway, was becoming a scheduled carrier. C3 should have known better too. Fatal errors in judgement.

[Mitch Cronin]

"Poor Max"? [chuckle] I'm not so sure... He ran his little operation from bush-league to big-time, had fun doing it for a bunch of years, and walked away with a pocket full of $multi-million$.... So, Beanie-boy ..... I don't think there'd be too many who wouldn't want to end up like that.

[blues deville]

Ha ha. Poor Max.....the one who lost his great airline.

Not the one who left the scene with $75M.

[Thebean]

Ward's greatest feat was undoubtedly selling a near bankrupt airline to Rhys Eyton, closely followed by some fortuitous trading of aluminum he didn't really want at a time when others did.

Those are the stories I want to know about, and not the careful revisionist history versions, thank you very much.

The airline itself, though immensely popular from a customer service perspective, largely because of the much lower fares offered compared to the incumbents, was, from everything I've seen, not particularly profitable. I don't think you'd find many case studies on Wardair, other than how they managed to run themselves into the ground. With all due respect, a compelling case can be made that C3000 was as successful as Wardair during the period they were in business.

Wardair got it's first B727 in 1966, a B707 in 1968 and a 747 in 1973. For much of the 80's they had 2 DC10's and 4 747's. That's it. They had 7 tails in 1987, tried to expand quickly and were done within 2 years. Yes, Wardair had been around since the early 50's, but by most peoples definition of an airline today, they had a 21 or so year run. To put this in perspective, WJ is about to celebrate it's 18th birthday.

Without question, Max Ward is one of Canada's true aviation pioneers. But lets not let nostalgia get in the way of reality.

[Gumbi]

To put this in perspective, WJ is about to celebrate it's 18th birthday.

.

...and Transat/AT its 27th...despite all the curves thrown at it!

[blues deville]

Wardair got it's first B727 in 1966, a B707 in 1968 and a 747 in 1973. For much of the 80's they had 2 DC10's and 4 747's. That's it. They had 7 tails in 1987, tried to expand quickly and were done within 2 years. Yes, Wardair had been around since the early 50's, but by most peoples definition of an airline today, they had a 21 or so year run. To put this in perspective, WJ is about to celebrate it's 18th birthday.

Sorry what was that about WS? Just kidding.

You have to remember that most of Wardair's lifespan was in a pre-deregulated time. They had to have groups of people form crazy clubs in order to book charter flights to here and there. A much different time compared to what we have today.

[deicer]

Holy Excrement Batman

Does nobody else see what I see here?????

A hole thread urination match and not once is AC brought in as the bad guy!

I've been on this board a long time, and this, my aviation friends is a first!!!!

Thank you WestJet for achieving maturity and taking some of the load

[Kip Powick]

When I joined WD he had just got the A310's, in fact I flew one that had 12 hours on it.

Max also wanted to build his own terminal on the south side or west side of the main runways. TC said "no".

Max was also reported as making one of the smartest financing arrangements in the history of aviation for the acquisition of the MD 80's he had on order.

His error, in my opinion was in attempting to go against AC and CP as a third major carrier in Canada...but he, personally, still came out a winner - $$$$ wise.

I have never met an individual passenger who said they had a bad flight on WD...IMO had he wanted to pursue the industry as the best and only 1st class charter company in Canada, WD would probably still be here.

I only had 3 years there, before we were punted to CP, but it was a great organization to fly for with really great people .

[blues deville]

Holy Excrement Batman

Does nobody else see what I see here?????

A hole thread urination match and not once is AC brought in as the bad guy!

I've been on this board a long time, and this, my aviation friends is a first!!!!

Thank you WestJet for achieving maturity and taking some of the load

Wait for it.

[Kip Powick]

Holy Excrement Batman

Does nobody else see what I see here?????

A hole thread urination match and not once is AC brought in as the bad guy!

I've been on this board a long time, and this, my aviation friends is a first!!!!

Thank you WestJet for achieving maturity and taking some of the load

A hole thread????? Happy New Year Robin !!! :Grin-Nod:

[inchman]

"Poor Max"? [chuckle] I'm not so sure... He ran his little operation from bush-league to big-time, had fun doing it for a bunch of years, and walked away with a pocket full of $multi-million$.... So, Beanie-boy ..... I don't think there'd be too many who wouldn't want to end up like that.

Interesting how one man who threw his employees under the bogies and walked away with millions is worshipped while another who makes less while trying to keep an airline alive and keep people employed is vilified.

[Kip Powick]

Interesting how one man who threw his employees under the bogies and walked away with millions is worshipped while another who makes less while trying to keep an airline alive and keep people employed, is vilified.

You had to be there. and I don't think he threw his employees under the bogies...he saw what was coming and the vast majority of us went with the flow.

[Mitch Cronin]

In fact, Inchman, unlike oodles of others before and since, he made sure the employees who'd purchased shares weren't hosed. Besides, who's worshipping him? Some of us just want to make sure Bean and his ilk aren't out there re-writing history.

[Thebean]

Show me some bonefide P&L's of Wardair's operation over its final dozen years that show consistent profitability, and therefore, sustainability, and I'll buy into your argument.

I've never met Max, but from what I've heard, he is most definitely not the sort of person who would have sold his company to a rival had his company been highly profitable. Max was old school. He cared about his people and wanted to ensure they had a future. He was smart enough to know they had no future if he didn't throw in the towel and sellout, and do it before the cash dried up.

It is a testament to Max's abilities that he was able to extract what he did from all the power suited MBA types running PWA at the time. I'd love to hear the unedited version of THAT story.

Max was 68 when that deal was done. Say what you will about Clive, but he turns 68 next year and knowing him, if he was the sole shareholder, I don't believe there is a chance he'd sell his baby out if he knew the business was viable, sustainable and had the ability to continue to grow.

[Thebean]

As alluded to earlier, even Ryanair has figured out that they can no longer brazenly pi$$ off their passengers without it impacting their bottom-line, and that's in a market at least 10x the size of the sandbox Sunwing plays in.

DUBLIN, Ireland - Ryanair will roll out a series of measures to improve its customer service over the coming year, chief executive Michael O’Leary has said.

Mr O’Leary acknowledged earlier this year that the airline had an image problem and said he would work to improve customer service.

In a new year message on YouTube, he said Ryanair will move to “significantly improve your customer experience”.

This will include a new Ryanair.com home page, a simplified booking process, a My Ryanair passenger registration service and country-specific websites.

Greater understanding

There will also be a 24-hour grace period for minor errors on bookings, a second, free, small carry-on bag, lower boarding card reissue fees and lower airport and baggages fees.

From next week, the cost of turning up with a bag to be put into the hold of the aircraft will be cut from €60 to €30.

In addition, allocated seating will be made available to all customers from February 1st, with improved family and business services in the spring.

A new booking service via smart phone and smart phone boarding passes will be available from April, with a new Ryanair app in May.

Mr O’Leary encouraged customers to get in touch with the airline via its Twitter account or the Ryanair website if they had other ideas to improve the airline’s service.

[Thebean]

Bean re Ryanair, I draw you attention to: http://theairlinewebsite.com/topic/402032-getting-ready-for-westjet-connections/

Yup. That's where I saw the story. Thx.

It fits into this thread as I have made the statement that at some point, Sunwing is going to have to take Customer Service a little more seriously than it does now. You can only abuse a finite customer base for so long before your reputation starts to impact earnings.

I still don't see WJ and Ryanair cooperating on any level other than maybe a spare parts pool.

They are as different as chalk and cheese on almost every level imaginable.

One of WJ's challenges in attracting Irish originating passengers will be to convince people who are used to Ryanair-type abuse that WJ has a very different way of doing things from a customer service perspective.

Europeans will be very surprised to discover WJ has a "first bag flies free" policy, with a 23kg limit.

Virtually every Euro LCC I've flown on charges through the nose for bags, with a paltry 15kg limit.

[CanadaEH]

I doubt Westjet will be offering that first bag free for very long.

[Thebean]

I doubt they'll be the ones to announce the change first.

It's someone elses turn.

[Super 80]

I was on a United A320 recently where at least four overhead bins were placard inoperable and taped shut empty, one of which popped open on landing and the seatback pocket at my seat was torn on one side. Obviously from an enormous "personal item" have been stuffed there.

I was on another flight, also United where about twenty passengers connecting to Houston missed their connection because it took damn near half an hour to get all the carry-ons that got past the gate agent stowed or gate checked, in another instance, this time Delta they had to bring the jetbridge back because a number of passengers had ridiculously large carry-ons at their feet that had gone unnoticed by the cabin crew.

I just roll my eyes, cabins are being beat to **bleep**, delays are being incurred or turn times extended.

[Thebean]

I was on a United A320 recently where at least four overhead bins were placard inoperable and taped shut empty, one of which popped open on landing and the seatback pocket at my seat was torn on one side. Obviously from an enormous "personal item" have been stuffed there.

I was on another flight, also United where about twenty passengers connecting to Houston missed their connection because it took damn near half an hour to get all the carry-ons that got past the gate agent stowed or gate checked, in another instance, this time Delta they had to bring the jetbridge back because a number of passengers had ridiculously large carry-ons at their feet that had gone unnoticed by the cabin crew.

I just roll my eyes, cabins are being beat to **bleep**, delays are being incurred or turn times extended.

Unintended consequences.....

[Thebean]

It'd be interesting to quantify the total cost, (in every respect), of charging for the first bag vs leaving it gratis.

I saw a stat years ago where United quantified what every minute of a delay cost them. It was staggering.

For example, what is the economic cost of having to increase turn times by 5 to 7 mins to deal with slower loading / unloading due to all the cabin baggage? What is the wear and tear on the aircraft? What are the implications on morale by turning f/a's into baggage cops? Does it become a straw that breaks the camel's back?

I'm not sure these sorts of things are considered when thrown into the equation.

[Guest rozar s'macco]

I'm sure they're not, because it seems like at most airlines each department fights for its budget amongst each other, budget dollars are based on performance, and delays are pinned on the easiest, but not necessarily the most accurate, target.

Too many carry ons is a pandora's box, in terms of who's "fault" delays are, and what the total cost is. To get accurate data on how turn times are affected, you'd need to compare a full year of data pre- and post-charging, because turn times are seasonal. A year is too a long time, during which time probably several dozen other operational and business policy changes would have taken place as well.

My guess is that this is a "what the CEO wants" issue, and a revenue issue primarily, because the total costs are way too hard to pin down. Also, CEO's and C-suite bonus is based (partly) on growing top line revenue, which the market likes, which drives up share prices. Shaving 5 mins off a turn time and making your FA's happy...I doubt very much that is a consideration at all.

[Super 80]

I think the baggage fees are mostly a reflection that the airlines imposing them recognize they have no brand equity left to lose. Sort of like the US regional cable monopolies, knowing that they couldn't be perceived any worse empowers them to be worse.

"Well, did you like us before the baggage fees?"