Sunwing Delay At Yyc

[chockalicious]

@HST, not missing the ham fisted attempt at making a point at all. It is obvious all airlines have IROPs. It is also important how an airline recovers from them.

That being said why engage in a tit for tat including linking to some other website? Can't make a point without attacking something else?

[Guest]

Lots as there were also for other carriers but re YYC Westjet had the advantage as that is where the majority of their aircraft overnighted , I suspect that would not have been the case for SunWing. Ice storm would have screwed up the SunWing operation ex yyz more than it hit the Westjet operation.... good old rolling delays and of course staff not making it into the airport.

1) the majority of the WS fleet doesn't overnight in YYC. Maybe 15-20% of the fleet. At my last check, YYZ had the most RON aircraft

2) WS biggest operation is YYZ, so the impact of the ice storm was significant

[Thebean]

As I said in an earlier post....

Fertilizer happens all the time in the airline business. What separates the good from the great is how these sorts of incidents are handled.

As an example I recall in the early days that it was WJ's policy to have their best airport people at the lost bag counter to deal with those issues rather than sending the new kid on the block to deal with problems. Those people were given very very wide discretion to make things right. It was a simple, but effective solution to deal with understandably annoyed guests and turn lemons into lemonade.

Sunwing contracts out everything so when their customers lose bags, they are talking to contract people likely making minimum wage who have extremely limited latitude to find out of the box solutions. They operate by rigid "policy, guidelines and procedures" manuals. If it isn't in the manual, the world grinds to a halt. The bottom line is they don't give a tinkers cuss and it shows.

One learns very quickly how to separate the chronic whining stories on the endless review sites from legitimate issues, regardless of the airline reviewed. After separating the wheat from the chaff, it is also a fairly easy task of to categorize the nature of the fails.

There is a hilarious letter purportedly written by Herb Kelleher in response to a whining customer complaining about everything that basically suggested they fly on another airline the next time.

As a long time observer of the industry, Sunwing's problems are remarkably consistent.

[blues deville]

As an example I recall in the early days that it was WJ's policy to have their best airport people at the lost bag counter to deal with those issues rather than sending the new kid on the block to deal with problems.

I have an example I'd like to share.

Perhaps the memo didn't make it out of Calgary because on December 24th, 2003, the Westjetter in Toronto dealing with my lost bag didn't have a clue about customer service. That was after I had waited for 30 minutes at the baggage level office for someone to show up and assist me. After getting nowhere with the first agent, I was directed to the T3 departure level and waited again to speak to another Westjetter. By this time my wife had arrived to collect me (sans suitcase packed with Xmas gifts) and witnessed their 2nd attempt at locating my lost bag. It's a good thing she was there to keep me grounded because after the red-eye flight I was starting to lose my patience with the westjet staff.

Over 24 hours later a soaking wet suitcase was delivered to my door at midnight.

What I really needed one of those "best airport" people but I guess they hadn't arrived yet.

[chockalicious]

I can hardly wait for more 10 year old customer service failure stories, maybe some links to other websites as well.

[blues deville]

I can hardly wait for more 10 year old customer service failure stories, maybe some links to other websites as well.

Do you have a problem hearing about how poorly WS has handled things in the past? We've just been told about your early days of customer service strategy.

With your attitude, hopefully you don't have direct contact with customers.

[chockalicious]

No problem at all, as mentioned, every airline has IROPs. I look forward to more 10 year old stories and hopefully more links to other websites.

[Seeker]

I look forward to more 10 year old stories and hopefully more links to other websites.

Strange to hear this from a Westjetter. It's Air Canada that gets constantly accused of having a dismissive attitude towards their customer's (rare) service issues.

Let me help you out, the correct response to a customer's retelling of a previous bad experience goes like this: I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with us in the past. I can't explain what happened on that day but I can assure you that we take customer satisfaction very seriously - after all we are owners you know! Blah, blah blah, etc, etc. and so on......you see I could be a Westjetter too!

[chockalicious]

@ Seeker, I would think you would be weeded out at the WS interview process however you can always aspire for the brass ring.

[blues deville]

@ Seeker, I would think you would be weeded out at the WS interview process however you can always aspire for the brass ring.

Holy crap. Remind me not to ask for your help when I check-in for my next WS flight.

[Seeker]

@ Seeker, I would think you would be weeded out at the WS interview process however you can always aspire for the brass ring.

Au contraire my friend, I had a choice between WS and AC. I have at least half a dozen of the chosen who could, and would, have vouched for me if I had aspired to be a Westjet pilot.

[Flying Phoenix]

My mother had a very similar experience with Sunwing and will never fly them again. Her 7 day package was really only 5 days the way the departure and arrival times worked out. I was a little annoyed with her, first for not consulting me before booking with them, but moreover as a very seasoned traveler, for not working out in her own mind what she was actually getting.

[blues deville]

One of Sunwing's VP's is a former CP accountant who dealt with aircraft leases. He really knows that end of the business which helps out their seasonal aircraft importation.

However, what they really need now is someone equally good in flight operations to clean up problems such as the one being discussed here.

[Seeker]

However, what they really need now is someone equally good in flight operations to clean up problems such as the one being discussed here.

From my understanding the Thompson family has had lots of good people pass through all departments who have told them exactly what's been needed to fix the problems but they just don't care.

[blues deville]

From my understanding the Thompson family has had lots of good people pass through all departments who have told them exactly what's been needed to fix the problems but they just don't care.

Too bad. I guess that explains it all.

Happy new year seeker.

[Guest rozar s'macco]

Doesn't surprise me. Isn't buying a charter package ultimately your tacit acknowledgement that once you've paid you're on your own anyway? You assume the full risk of major delays and a fubar'd vacation in exchange for the cheapest price. You get what you pay for. Easy to forget that in between the buying decision and the going-on-vacation part though, which can be several months apart. And then people 'forget' tht again the next year. Eventually you will be burned, that's a guarantee.

[Kip Powick]

Doesn't surprise me. Isn't buying a charter package ultimately your tacit acknowledgement that once you've paid you're on your own anyway? You assume the full risk of major delays and a fubar'd vacation in exchange for the cheapest price. You get what you pay for. Easy to forget that in between the buying decision and the going-on-vacation part though, which can be several months apart. And then people 'forget' tht again the next year. Eventually you will be burned, that's a guarantee.

Perhaps, however I have travelled extensively, every winter to the south, on Air Transat and have received nothing but great service but.................... because we go for a lengthy time we ALWAYS buy really good insurance, (excluding medical), just in case of delays, luggage etc. I don't think there is anything of importance that our policies don't cover.

Unfortunately Air Transat only flies to 'our' destination with the A310 during the time we do not want to go so for the past two years we have been on Canjet B-800, courtesy Air Transat, and their service has been pretty good but we do miss Club Class.

Then again ,being retired, delays etc. really don't bother us but I can certainly understand people that only have so many 'vacation' days to have fun getting PO'd if things go off the rails...but I can not emphasise the importance of GOOD INSURANCE.

[Thebean]

For the sake of discussion, let's take a look at all the Skytrax reviews posted since Decemer 1st 2013.

Let's keep in mind that WJ has about 110 aircraft in it's fleet and Sunwing has something around 28 operating at this time of year. If all things were equal, and completely ignoring Sunwing's considerably longer asl and therefore proportionately fewer seats in the marketplace per aircraft flown and consequently, proportinately far fewer opportunities to screw up, one would expect WJ to have roughly 4x the bad reviews of Sunwing over this period.

WestJet has 5 reviews. Two were positive, three were negative.

Of the negative reviews, one is fundamentally due to a customer who missed the cut off time on a flight who is venting.

One is for someone complaining about a delay due to freezing rain and the lack of vegetarian meals on an airline that has never offered meals per se in 17 years of ops. There's some discussion about people who likely paid less for a connecting flight wanting to switch to a non stop flight, likely for free and a "friend" having a bag delay. I wish I had a friend who would post reviews on my behalf. Nonetheless, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on the bag. As for delays out of CUN, that's pretty much par for the course there. It's Mexico and on busy days, it can be a gong show.

One is for a flight cancellation issue at YYZ on Dec 22nd, which places it right smack dab in the middle of Toronto's worst ice storm in a decade or more. Again, venting from people trying to get home for the holidays.

Let's take a look at Sunwing's reviews over the same period. There are 13 reviews, and if you read them they are all fundamentally negative. Of the 13, I'd categorize one or perhaps two are people venting at perceived injustices.

The rest of the reviews fundamentally deal with Sunwing's corporate policy of over promising and under delivering.

This is evident by the multiple reviews refering to Sunwing's chronic policy of selling "non stop" flights and then consolidating them into one stop flights. This has been going on for years. It results in pi$$ed off customers, not to mention confusion and mayem it at airport down the line. Consoidating flights may be good for Sunwing's bottom line, but Sunwing has never bothered to invest in an appropriate level of infrastructre to ensure that such a practice is all but transparent to it's customers.

It'd be one thing if Sunwing had it's own dedicated customer service people at their stations to deal with issues caused by their overt "bait and switch'' flight consolidation policy, however, they contract it all out and leave customer service resolution matters entirely up to contract people making minimum wage and who's only real concern is when their shift is over. Is it any wonder Sunwing's customer service failures are near legendary?

You can only fool some of the people most of the time for so long in a customer service industry. Even Ryanair has begun to figure this out.

[Kip Powick]

C'mon Bean...Give it a rest !!

Anyone who has been on this forum knows that you stand up and face the WJ flagpole, ( no matter where you are in the world) and salute........... ...we get it............ WJ-- "good"...everyone else-- "bad"

I believe your constant harping about how WJ is the premium carrier in the Great White North is beginning to wear thin with other industry participants and may just cause a few, guests/customers/passengers, and non WJ employees, to think twice about leaning toward WJ.....if you are constantly raving about your previous employer.

Oh..yeh ..have a Happy New Year.

[Guest]

C'mon Bean...Give it a rest !!

Anyone who has been on this forum knows that you stand up and face the WJ flagpole, ( no matter where you are in the world) and salute........... ...we get it............ WJ-- "good"...everyone else-- "bad"

I believe your constant harping about how WJ is the premium carrier in the Great White North is beginning to wear thin with other industry participants and may just cause a few, guests/customers/passengers, and non WJ employees, to think twice about leaning toward WJ.....if you are constantly raving about your previous employer.

Oh..yeh ..have a Happy New Year.

what am I missing here? Beside the 20 or so usual aviation enhusiast posters and the odd reporter who lurks after a plane crash looking for tid bits, no one from the general public is coming here for anything. They'd probably kill them selves after reading the idiocy that guaranteed when airline employees share their opinions.

[Thebean]

C'mon Bean...Give it a rest !!

Anyone who has been on this forum knows that you stand up and face the WJ flagpole, ( no matter where you are in the world) and salute........... ...we get it............ WJ-- "good"...everyone else-- "bad"

I believe your constant harping about how WJ is the premium carrier in the Great White North is beginning to wear thin with other industry participants and may just cause a few, guests/customers/passengers, and non WJ employees, to think twice about leaning toward WJ.....if you are constantly raving about your previous employer.

Oh..yeh ..have a Happy New Year.

Who's raving?

It was simply an exercise taking a critical look at reviews of two airlines posted on a web site referenced by others in an earlier post over a recent, finite period to see if any conclusions could be drawn. Don't shoot the messenger.

And for the record, the last time I checked a bag on WestJet, and dare I say, between Vancouver and Victoria, it was delayed about 15 hours, arriving the next morning.

I was notified by phone it had arrived in YYJ at 11:30 in the evening and I asked for it to be delivered to my address after 8:30am and before 10am the next day. I had it at 9:30am.

No fuss, no muss. $hit happens and it was dealt with appropriately. Had it been dealt with inappropriately, the story would have likely been passed on to a dozen or more people around the supper table or at the pub, which is not good for business. Deal with it appropriately and the story is either not recounted or if it is, the story ends up making WJ look good.

It's all about how customer service organizations deal with issues when the inevitable happens.

[Kip Powick]

what am I missing here? Beside the 20 or so usual aviation enhusiast posters and the odd reporter who lurks after a plane crash looking for tid bits, no one from the general public is coming here for anything. They'd probably kill them selves after reading the idiocy that guaranteed when airline employees share their opinions.

And you know this how????

There is no need to be a registered member of this AEF forum to come here and read whatever catches your fancy.......how do you think the Press get a few quotes from this forum, and lastly look at the lengthy MEMBERS list...not all members post...many are just readers.

They'd probably kill them selves after reading the idiocy that guaranteed when airline employees share their opinions.

What does the above line mean..I can't follow it

If you feel there is nothing of value,(idiocy) ,is all this forum is about...why come here ???. There are many great posts that enlighten many readers and , in my opinion, there is an excellent quantity and quality of useful aviation, as well as other knowledge as well as valued opinions on this forum. Regular members know " how to sift the wheat from the chaff".

[mrlupin]

Who's raving?

It was simply an exercise taking a critical look at reviews of two airlines posted on a web site referenced by others in an earlier post over a recent, finite period to see if any conclusions could be drawn. Don't shoot the messenger.

If one were to summarize your posts, one would see a great example of what is not a critical look at the various airlines. Your Westjet bias is way too obvious for you to claim you are critically evaluating airlines. I am sure you would be able to perform those evaluations but you certainly don't use that ability here on the forum. You'r tattoed Teal bean...

You do a fine job of promoting Westjet and pointing out their strong points. Lets leave it at that.

[Guest]

And you know this how????

There is no need to be a registered member of this AEF forum to come here and read whatever catches your fancy.......how do you think the Press get a few quotes from this forum, and lastly look at the lengthy MEMBERS list...not all members post...many are just readers.

They'd probably kill them selves after reading the idiocy that guaranteed when airline employees share their opinions.

What does the above line mean..I can't follow it

If you feel there is nothing of value,(idiocy) ,is all this forum is about...why come here ???. There are many great posts that enlighten many readers and , in my opinion, there is an excellent quantity and quality of useful aviation, as well as other knowledge as well as valued opinions on this forum. Regular members know " how to sift the wheat from the chaff".

I come because 1 out of every 100 posts actually provides some intelligent information one can learn from.

The rest of the time, this place is like a Tim Hortons, where people go to tell exaggerated tales and share opinion based as if it was fact. I've worked on initiatives during my time at AC and WS that were discussed on this forum and level of expert commentary that was fabricated and/or grossly absurd is significant. Yet, for the most part, it's accepted as the "wheat" coming from "respected" posters. These days, this place is becoming a smaller version of AvCanada, which is a total farce.

Frankly it's ridiculous how airline employees battle against each other based on company lines, yet 99% of us do it and should be embarrassed. If the public were coming on this site to help make a decision about what carrier they should choose for their travels (which they are not), then I suspect the'd make the decision to drive instead of fly.

[Thebean]

If one were to summarize your posts, one would see a great example of what is not a critical look at the various airlines. Your Westjet bias is way too obvious for you to claim you are critically evaluating airlines. I am sure you would be able to perform those evaluations but you certainly don't use that ability here on the forum. You'r tattoed Teal bean...

You do a fine job of promoting Westjet and pointing out their strong points. Lets leave it at that.

How about you take a look at the same reviews over the same period and post your observations and conclusions?

http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/sunwings.htm

http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/westjet.htm

Is it unreasonable to look at reviews over the past calendar month to make a general assessment, or do you think I've waited years to observe a window where WJ's reviews are clearly better than a competitors in the previous 28 days in order to prove a point?

The very nature of these review sites is such that it shouldn't be surprising to most that 90% of reviews posted are negative.

The very fact that WJ, with at least 5x the seat capacity of Sunwing, has 296 reviews and Sunwing has 330 reviews is enough to suggest that there are most certainly some endemic problems at Sunwing.

Like I said, don't shoot the messenger. It's not as if I have any control of how either airline manages its business. That course was set many moons ago.

I wasn't particularly pleased WJ lost my bag on a 39 mile flight with a legal connection and I freely admit to having a good chuckle in the past when Big Red would lose my bag on the same route. How on earth is that possible? I guess it is. Touche'

$hit happens but it's how airlines deal with the aforementioned $hit that separate them.