Jump to content

Asiana Crash Landing At Sfo Saturday

dagger

By dagger
in Airline Aviation Forum

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 252
  • Created
  • Last Reply
Don Hudson

Don Hudson

Posted
Posted

The video is entertainment, not "evidence". It is a cartoon.

While extremely well done in terms of "being realistic", it is based on a viewing of the video of the accident and as such is a visual assessment of (sort-of) how the airplane (kind-of) went down the runway and pirouetted about it's nosewheel.

I think it is an excellent cartoon but it's fiction even if it looks exactly like (we think) it should.

I've done enough videos of events from flight data to know that one can get it really wrong, and can dangerously "assist" others into drawing incorrect conclusions from such fictions, especially ones that are as well-done as this one. Even if this looks exactly like what we saw in the video, we don't know what was going on in the cockpit except what has been released.

Everyone's now getting their ducks in line - that's what this is about.

I think it is a growing, serious problem that lawyers, judges and juries are being confronted with this kind of nonsense and that for purely "I want to win" reasons would take such cartoons as "real" and as "evidence". No flight data has been released and the bits and pieces one can get from the internet showing flight paths isn't worth examining. This "animation" has as much veridicality as the animation created by (yet another) expert witness in the Zimmerman trial which showed "exactly" how Martin struck Zimmerman. What?! Says who? Says Mr. Zimmerman and his lawyer, of course.

I missed whether the trial judge ruled the cartoon in or out of evidence but such animations are figments of someone's (biased) imagination.

If someone is making judgements of serious import which will have material effects upon others based upon such cartoons, I think that would demonstrate a disturbing level of credulity in a legal system. Doesn't mean it doesn't occur, and it doesn't mean the glove doesn't fit either. It doesn't mean anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bryon Mask

Bryon Mask

Posted
Posted

As Don has pointed out you can make a video show anything you want by altering the flight path etc. with the modeling tools you have available with your software. You need the real FDR parameters to construct the replay and even then you have to be very careful how you reconstruct the sequence of events. You can make a B-777 land on an aircraft carrier and make it look real, depends on your audience. Be very careful with animations that display the "truth"

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Moon The Loon

Moon The Loon

Posted
Posted

Yes amazing animation. Yet another good tool for reviewing aircraft ( or any event I suppose) accidents.

My question is: why did they not correct their sink rate as they passed thru the normal profile (see the beginning of video/ghost jet) or immediately afterwards.

Outside view, a set of all red PAPIs, and an unusual runway view.

Inside view, a VNAV path deviation (if they programmed it for the approach), and a VS rate higher than normal for an approach.

Even some frequent flyer passengers have reported they were much closer to the water than what they are used to seeing.

I would suggest the questions are rhetorical.

We're all going to have to wait for the initial NTSB findings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Don Hudson

Don Hudson

Posted
Posted
The NTSB does not release or confirm the names of crewmembers or people involved in transportation accidents to the media. We work hard to ensure that only appropriate factual information regarding an investigation is released and deeply regret today's incident.

Appropriate actions will be taken to ensure that such a serious error is not repeated.

Accountability. I like it. It brings a measure of integrity to the process.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
hollywud

hollywud

Posted
Posted

I am 'pretty sure' of only one thing; the pilots did not intentionally crash the aircraft. While we may not comprehend how this accident could have happened, we should try to remember a couple of things: (1) it was an ACCIDENT and (2) that the flight crew probably have wives, children, parents etc. and that they may face life imprisonment (or worse) back in Korea. Do they deserve such a fate? Does a bus driver with a long history of safe driving who gets into an accident (perhaps he fell asleep at the wheel) which causes a lose of life deserve the same treatment? I for one sympathize deeply for the flight crew. I can't imagine the nightmare they are living through right now. We know how flawed the system in Korea is and sadly the crew are simply products of their flawed environment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
vanishing point

vanishing point

Posted
Posted

Well said, hollywud.

185 posts on this. Maybe it's time to let the authorities do their jobs and we all move along.

If what they learn prevents something like this happening again, it will be worth it. I can't imagine what the crew is going through.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
blues deville

blues deville

Posted
Posted

.....we should try to remember a couple of things: (1) it was an ACCIDENT and (2) that the flight crew probably have wives, children, parents etc. and that they may face life imprisonment (or worse) back in Korea.

I am not sure I could be as understanding if my wife, child or parent were seriously injured on this Asiana flight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
blues deville

blues deville

Posted
Posted

Asiana To Beef Up Pilot Conversion Training

"The pilot in charge of landing the plane was in training on the 777, while seated next to him was a pilot on his first flight as an instructor. Both were experienced pilots, although they had not flown together before, the US National Transportation Safety Board said.

"We will bolster our training programme... when a pilot converts to a jet from a different manufacturer," Asiana said in a presentation to the government, which was shown to reporters."

-This to me, along with human factor and fatigue issues, is a major point. The PF (captain in training) had flown as Captain on A320/321 for over 5 years and this as we now know was a transition to the 777. These airplanes are similar in that they are both fly by wire, but that's where the similarities end. I know that after flying 757s for 13 years, I had a tough time switching to the A320. For me it was mainly my poor attitude but fortunately I had a sim session with a retired AC instructor (Don Simmons) who gave me one great piece of advice.

"Wrap your head around this airplane and forget about Boeing".

That did it for me and once I stopped translating things from Boeing to Airbus I seemed to understand the airplane better and enjoy it. For others transitioning from type to type can be a breeze and I've seen it first hand in the sim and aircraft. Asiana's plan to change their training program is probably a good start. I would be curious to know how many other Captains have completed this same transition at Asiana.

"The new measures will include enhancing training for visual approach and automated flight and conducting flight inspection on airports which are "vulnerable to safety."

-Sounds good but a couple of hours in the sim practicing visual approaches may not improve a basic skill developed my most pilots early on in their flying careers.

"Meanwhile, the carrier said on Monday that it planned to sue US television station KTVU for reporting racially offensive fake names for the pilots of the Asiana 214. "The KTVU report that not only disparaged Asians in general through the use of racially charged epithets, but also severely damaged the reputation of Asiana Airlines," it said."

-I bet this reporter had a Communications degree from UCLA or someplace similar but that didn't help her realize she'd been hoaxed. Americans probably won't even notice this racial TV new report error since the Zimmerman trial has now ended fueling a hot summer protest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
boestar

boestar

Posted
Posted

Reporters and broadcasters today are Lazy. Whether it was an intentional hoax or not is the question. They likley got the names from the internet on The Onion ir something like that. It seems today that journalists just google for information or pick up snippets here and there but don't do any real research.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockalicious

chockalicious

Posted
Posted

From what I read on another forum the names were confirmed by an intern at the NTSB.

However station manager Jack Mehoff was unavailable for comment. His second in command, Mike Hunt was vacationing with I.P. Freely so the final confirmation was provided by Hugh Jorgan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
rudder

rudder

Posted
Posted

The original video of the crash posted by Rudder, well above, has a couple of large technical mistakes that jump out at you right away.

Apparently technical mistakes not obvious enough to prevent the announcement of sweeping changes by Asiana to flight operations policy and training well before any interim or final finding of cause has been announced.

There will be several peripheral causal factors identified in the final NTSB report but it would seem that Asiana has already seen enough to realize that this could happen again if they do not act immediately on modifying internal practices.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
props2you

props2you

Posted
Posted

From what I read on another forum the names were confirmed by an intern at the NTSB.

However station manager Jack Mehoff was unavailable for comment. His second in command, Mike Hunt was vacationing with I.P. Freely so the final confirmation was provided by Hugh Jorgan.

Is Mehoff still there? I thought Peter Goesinya had taken his place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Johnny

Johnny

Posted
Posted

When the media is on a feeding frenzy, they'll rush to publish anything. It will be interesting to see what the Korean Government does with these four Pilots.

We certainly remember what happened to Captain Barry Woods.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing


×
×
  • Create New...