Thebean Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 http://finance.yahoo.com/news/air-canada-rouge-expands-more-181200708.htmlThis is getting a little confusing.From the public's perspective, isn't Rouge supposed to be the Air Canada "low cost brand"? True, industry people understand the difference between "low cost" and "low fare", but ask the general public and it's a whole different situation. In their minds, the terms are inter changable.Example: The lowest mainline fare to Tampa in the post January peak period is $242.The lowest Rouge fare to Sarasota, an hours drive from TPA in the post January peak period on the same day departing at virtually the same time is $316. A family of four can pocket $296 savings by flying to Tampa on the higher cost Mainline flight with all the amenities and service they know and have come to expect from Air Canada rather than flying on Rouge.This isn't a one off. There are lots of anomalies like this across the network.One would assume the strategic goal would be to differentiate Rouge's product and stingier seat pitch to the superior mainline product in the only way that matters to Joe Lunchbucket: Price. If this sort of thing isn't corrected quickly, it may cause all kinds of brand confusion and unfulfilled expectations. I'll bet 95% of travel agents will tell their clients their Rouge flight is really an Air Canada flight, which is further cemented in their brains the nano second the customer sees the aircraft at the gate with the Air Canada logo clearly visible, or earlier, given the number of times during the booking and airport process when they are "touched" by Air Canada people in an identical fashion to those that are flying mainline.At that point, the brain kicks in to all the Air Canada ads they've seen on TV over the years of spacious aircraft, award winning, luxury service with good meals and fine wines etc etc; expectations that can not possibly be fulfilled when they step on board. It's like the beauty shots and expectations of a juicy fast food burger on the posters in the window compared to the lump of mystery meat on a bun with a couple of slices of tomatoes and some wilted lettuce that appears on your plate. It's only natural to be disappointed, which is not an emotion you want your customers to express!I think Scoot was quite clever in keeping the Mother ship's brand off their product. A strategy of under promising and over delivering is far easier to succeed with then the potential of over promising and under delivering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanishing point Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 I think it falls under the category of "low cost to the company", not "low cost to the consumer".Most passengers don't look at the aircraft itself. Even if they do, they'll most likely think AC has a new updated paint job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FA@AC Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 I think it'd be harder to keep Rouge separate from AC in the way that SQ is doing with Scoot since existing AC people in AC uniforms will be performing check-in and other functions for Rouge. It is likely to confuse some customers.As for higher pricing for an inferior product, I suspect AC thinks that Rouge will extract a nonstop premium in certain markets.The other thing that strikes me after looking at Rouge's summer schedule is that fleet utilisation on the Rouge 319 will be pathetic at least initially. From what I gather, there will be many days when an aircraft does YYZ-VRA-YYZ and nothing else all day. I wonder, too, how the operation will recover when one of the 2 319s or one of the 2 767s goes mechanical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 80 Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 The branding people behind Rouge pitched that they could position Rouge as a "trendsetting lifestyle brand" rather than as simply a discount one. Which in fairness is something JetBlue did quite successfully at one time and Porter to some extent. I wouldn't bet the loose change in my pocket on it, but this is a world where people buy forty dollar t-shirts that say Fcuk on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FA@AC Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 wouldn't the folks who fly on Encore suffer the same sort of brand confusion or is the product (except for the seat pitch and the whirly things on the wings) going to be identical?No different from flying AC mainline vs. Express I'd imagine.AC customers who fly, say, MUC-YYZ on the high density 777 and then connect to Rouge are in for quite a different experience from what they might expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 No different from flying AC mainline vs. Express I'd imagine.AC customers who fly, say, MUC-YYZ on the high density 777 and then connect to Rouge are in for quite a different experience from what they might expect.Yeah, they'll be squeezed in like sardines on both flights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dork Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Rouge is already a success. It's purpose was to contain and reduce mainline pilot salaries, circumvent contract duty regulations and bleed a mainline pension plan dry by outsourcing the flying.I would 't worry about what makes sense about running an airline, there is more money to be made by not honouring pension plans.Take A little peek at Jetstar for a glimpse. As for intent.. Sky Regional only wanted to have a few Q400's out of Billy BishopTo compete with Porter....The true face Rouge has 't even begun to lift it's mask..DorkPilots get branded...or rebranded for life...it's career cost is expensive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebean Posted June 26, 2013 Author Share Posted June 26, 2013 I think it'd be harder to keep Rouge separate from AC in the way that SQ is doing with Scoot since existing AC people in AC uniforms will be performing check-in and other functions for Rouge. It is likely to confuse some customers.In a few months, it would be interesting to poll Rouge passengers at the baggage carrousels, asking them "what airline did you just fly"?. After presumably having booked on the AC website or talked to AC reservation staff, checked in at AC counters with uniformed AC personnel, boarded at gates manned by AC personnel, watched all under wing being performed by AC personnel and boarded an aircraft with a very visible Air Canada logo on it, flown by in many cases, Air Canada pilots and be collecting bags at carrousels largely exclusive to Air Canada, I would imagine most people would instinctively respond "Air Canada" rather than "Rouge". I'm pretty sure Scoot/SIA's intention is that in the same scenario, their customers would say "Scoot" and absolutely not not "Singapore Airlines"As for higher pricing for an inferior product, I suspect AC thinks that Rouge will extract a nonstop premium in certain markets.If there's that sort of percentage yield premium in markets operated by Rouge that are yet to be operated by WestJet, I would imagine it won't be long before that scenario changes. Fat yields in leisure markets attract LCC's like flies to sherbert.The other thing that strikes me after looking at Rouge's summer schedule is that fleet utilisation on the Rouge 319 will be pathetic at least initially. From what I gather, there will be many days when an aircraft does YYZ-VRA-YYZ and nothing else all day. I wonder, too, how the operation will recover when one of the 2 319s or one of the 2 767s goes mechanical.Summer is always a busy time for any airline in Canada. One has only to see the dramatic seasonal increase in ASM production at AC to realize there aren't many airplanes sitting in the weeds looking for something to do as is often the case in the winter months. In the immortal words of Luigi Vercotti, "phings break".... however, one would imagine that AC will make use of it's larger fleet and network to protect their passengers in the event of an irop. It's a bit of a two edge sword as, but ultimately it's the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FA@AC Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 In the immortal words of Luigi Vercotti, "phings break".... however, one would imagine that AC will make use of it's larger fleet and network to protect their passengers in the event of an irop. I'm sure there's some kind of plan in place, but pulling an aircraft from mainline AC might not be easy. I believe Rouge will use a different OC (not sure how much that matters), and it's using a completely separate pool of front end and cabin crews which is likely to make scheduling inefficient and costly. In the case of FAs, we can't work on Rouge aircraft nor can they work on ours. I don't know where ACPA is on that one. There's also the matter of seat capacity. A mainline 319/767 can't accommodate a full Rouge load.As for the stuff about brand identity--or whatever the marketing term is--I guess AC has decided that confusion around what is Rouge and what is AC proper won't affect the bottom line. It may not, but my sense is that they have neglected to consider a number of other factors that will affect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rozar s'macco Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Tampa isn't a rouge destination, is it? FWIW, the stated plan is to segregate the destinations ie no mixing. A destination is either "Air Canada" or "rouge." As I'm led to believe they won't be doing an 0800 AC flight number, followed by a 1030 rouge, and a 1300 AC... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 80 Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 I'm sure there's some kind of plan in place, but pulling an aircraft from mainline AC might not be easy. I believe Rouge will use a different OC (not sure how much that matters), and it's using a completely separate pool of front end and cabin crews which is likely to make scheduling inefficient and costly. In the case of FAs, we can't work on Rouge aircraft nor can they work on ours. I don't know where ACPA is on that one. There's also the matter of seat capacity. A mainline 319/767 can't accommodate a full Rouge load.I was told there are potentially some issues with route authorities being transferred to Rouge that would in some instances complicate things, but no specific examples were given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transat310 Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 There is no confusion with the pricing on Rouge. You have to assume that there are competent people at Air Canada. The individual(s) tasked with pricing were probably instructed to make it profitable or breakeven and they did their job. To make it work the pricing is not going to be low .... they won't be able to sustain a fare war and aren't planning on it. Maybe some stategic sales to create some excitement but that will be it. They will attract the segment of the population that assumes AC is the only way to go until they get on and experience the 29 inch pitch on a 9 hour North Atlantic flight. Eventually they will steal from the mainline and it will all get confused internally and rouge will become a fare level... much like tango. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thor Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Transat310, I think that you're right. BTW, I enjoy travelling on Air Transat to Europe. Really like the new configuration on the 330s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebean Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 http://finance.yahoo.com/news/air-canada-rouges-inaugural-flights-172600607.htmlhttp://finance.yahoo.com/news/air-canada-rouges-inaugural-flights-173000586.htmlInteresting pictures in the press releases, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Interesting pictures in the press releases, eh? Too much excitement for one day. I think I need to sit down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebean Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 Take a closer look at pilot uniforms and gate / flight identification at the podium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I think the only change made to the pilot uniform was a reddish tie. It's hard to tell from the photo but I think they're wearing them. Gate signage obviously a detail forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudder Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Plus ca change ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Plus ca change ....... That's too bad. I would have thought someone would have made an effort. Wait.....its a holiday Monday. That may explain the lack of enthusiasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebean Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 I think the only change made to the pilot uniform was a reddish tie. It's hard to tell from the photo but I think they're wearing them. Gate signage obviously a detail forgotten.Do you think Joe Traveler will be able to differentiate the uniforms and the gate podium from Air Canada mainline 20 feet away?The devil is always in the detail......This is what I'd have been aiming for:https://www.google.ca/search?q=scoot+pictures&client=firefox-a&hs=YyQ&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=I97RUbbiB8qFiALel4HoAQ&ved=0CC4QsAQ&biw=1280&bih=859The goal should be to be visibly unique and easily contrasted to mainline operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.O. Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Some of the flights being operated by Rouge will have an AC flight number. I heard this the other day but the person who related it didn't know the exact reason for it. It could have something to do with airport slot allocation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 The Scoot project has some serious investment behind it. Angus Kinnear at C3 was a details person. Everything from aircraft lav locations on new aircraft to the color of red lipstick worm by the FA's. When C3 moved into the old T1, all the check-in counters were redone in C3 colors and other carriers in the terminal referred to the C3 ground staff as "Barbies and Kens". Aircraft interiors, check-in counters, signage, and people all had to look good..Michael Friisdahl is not a details person. When I read that AC had hired him my first thought was " oh, that's too bad". Perhaps the Disney training will win over their customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fido Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 VP of Customer Experience Renee Smith-ValadeShe certainly gets around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 VP of Customer Experience Renee Smith-ValadeShe certainly gets around.Never heard of her before. What's her background? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.O. Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 She was VP Communications for VANOC but has worked in the airline industry in the past.http://www.voanews.com/content/vancouver-organizing-committee-faces-olympic-questions-head-on-85369342/113129.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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