dagger Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1152951/pilot-fatigue-and-faster-approach-led-to-january-2012-runway-overrun-in-fort-nelson-british-columbia The crew was not following the descent path indicated by the instrument landing system, which led to a faster approach. The faster approach and the autothrottle being left on for the touchdown contributed to the overrun. In addition, the investigation uncovered that the captain did not get sufficient sleep in the 24 hours before the flight. Fatigue adversely affects judgement and the ability to adequately evaluate and manage operational risks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airband Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 .TSB Investigation Report A12W0004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rozar s'macco Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Runway 6400' long. No, a B737-700 is not a CS100 but...I still think 5100' for jet service off YTZ (to L.A!) is a fairly tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadairguy Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Does the A/T have to be manually disengaged on the 737? If it remains engaged, does it really try to maintain airspeed after touchdown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pivot Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Does the A/T have to be manually disengaged on the 737? If it remains engaged, does it really try to maintain airspeed after touchdown?No. When the 737NG first came out we did not have to manually disengage the A/T before landing. It is still acceptable to leave it engaged to touchdown for autoland.But new SOP is to manually disengage it for all other landings. Just like you might not get instant ground spoiler deployment on touchdown, you might not get idle thrust from the A/T if it is still on. If the power levers come up then you can't select reverse until you have pulled the power back yourself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILB Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Does the A/T have to be manually disengaged on the 737? If it remains engaged, does it really try to maintain airspeed after touchdown?From the report: At the time of touchdown, the A/T system was in MCP SPD mode with the AFDS set up for ALT ACQ. This configuration does not allow the A/T system to enter retard mode during the flare as this setup is used for a go around situation. The A/T system will retard thrust levers to idle in single autopilot mode only if the AFDS is in approach mode and the aircraft descends through 27 feet radar altitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Some documents relevant to overruns...http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CE8QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nlr-atsi.nl%2Fdownloads%2Fdevelopment-of-a-landing-overrun-risk-index.pdf&ei=mUl8UY-BJYeSrAHngoHABQ&usg=AFQjCNFioHUE9cU_qbfNPEjKmlQqQPvJ5Q&sig2=aveN63TGB5stpsd5HI8KGA&bvm=bv.45645796,d.aWMhttp://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CFgQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nlr-atsi.nl%2Fdownloads%2Frunning-out-of-runway.pdf&ei=mUl8UY-BJYeSrAHngoHABQ&usg=AFQjCNFLT1CZuv9QY_FBP2rrizedxlUvrA&sig2=-Hj6hNLCvd9uoSMj2hNW6Q&bvm=bv.45645796,d.aWMhttp://www.nlr-atsi.nl/news/getting-to-grips-with-overrun-risk.htmlhttp://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CEwQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fflightsafety.org%2Ffiles%2Fiass%2F2011-proceedings%2FFabregas.pdf&ei=t0p8UfvQCMLbrAHw_IDABg&usg=AFQjCNFi_iltE4uv1AqE8WzJxTzCLU6dcw&sig2=Kmu54X49P7E3mOFHIJCqPg&bvm=bv.45645796,d.aWMhttp://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CD4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.caa.co.uk%2Fdocs%2F33%2FReport201201.pdf&ei=8Up8UeTpKoehqwHjp4GIDA&usg=AFQjCNEgnth7pqvvGFQSNRMBkXr4TiCQtw&sig2=QcUqRdSK8BZUCYA4F0sLqQ&bvm=bv.45645796,d.aWMToday there are FDM derived parameters which calculate runway remaining at touchdown, required deceleration rates to calculate risk of overrun, altitude over the threshold and a really interesting one, - runway remaining from the t/d point at a nominal 0.2g longitudinal deceleration rate.From these and other parameters and using / applying the information in these documents (plus others), a carrier can make a very detailed risk assessment of overrun risk both in terms of trends, and individual flights.Determining the actual t/d point has always been a challenge when operating non-GPS aircraft but the algorithms are better than ever, especially if the approach was an ILS.Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JL Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Further to Don's post above, anyone here have operational experience with Airbus's ROW/ROP system? http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pressreleases/press-release-detail/detail/easa-certifies-brake-to-vacate-btv-and-runway-overrun-warning-and-prevention-rowrop-systems/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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