Homeland Security Eyes Vehicle, Pedestrian Fees For Us Entry

[Lakelad]

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U.S. border fee proposal to be 'vigorously' fought by Ottawa

Homeland Security wants to charge every vehicle, pedestrian a fee to enter U.S.

Apr 22, 2013 - CBC News

Ottawa "will vigorously lobby against" a proposal to charge every vehicle and pedestrian a fee to enter the United States at any land border crossing, says a spokeswoman for Canada's Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade.

The Department of Homeland Security wants Congress to authorize the study of a fee that could be collected from everyone who enters the U.S. at land crossings bordering Canada and Mexico.

Canada's Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade thinks a fee to simply enter the U.S. would be bad for business between the two countries.

"Canadian officials will vigorously lobby against this proposal," department spokeswoman Emma Welford told CBC News in an email.

"We believe that any fee on travelers crossing the Canada-U.S. border would be bad for travelers and bad for the economy," .

Welford said Canadians spend more $21 billion annually in the U.S.

Chrysler alone, for example, makes more than 1,600 customs entries in Windsor-Detroit every day.

The 2014 Department of Homeland Security budget proposal seeks increases in existing fees charged for services, including fees that air and sea travellers must pay when they enter the country.

But the agency also wants to study the feasibility of collecting a land border crossing fee for pedestrians and passenger vehicles along the northern and southwest borders of the United States.

No fees have previously been imposed on those who enter by car, bus or train.

'Hopes that 'sanity will prevail'

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[Maverick]

No fees have previously been imposed on those who enter by car, bus or train.

'Hopes that 'sanity will prevail'

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What? A level playing field for the roach airlines like Allegiant and Spirit?

I really don't want to see this but it would certainly help the airlines that actually serve Canada.

[Super 80]

This has been proposed a number of times over the years and always died a quick death at the hands of the border state delegations.

Originally it was proposed as a way to subsidize militarizing the Border Patrol back in the Newt Gingrich days.

[J.O.]

This time it's all about money and it just may have legs.

[Don Hudson]

It may just be, J.O. But if it's all about money and who's department 'wins' at the expense of another government department, perhaps the Department of What Canadians Spend in the U.S. doesn't share data with the Department of Homeland Security? It wouldnt' be the first time that government departments didn't share information but if the "US$21b that Canadians spend in the U.S." is all from cross-border / vacation trips and U.S. business begins asking where their profits went, (back north, if anyone is asking), perhaps the two Departments may agree to talk?

[deicer]

It quietly happened just a few years ago that U.S. Customs also started to enforce the 1 bottle duty free limit. Before, you could load up at the boarder crossings and they would allow it. No longer

[Seeker]

I think it's great - lets make it an even $100/person each way for a surface crossing - get more people flying and stamp out the leeches in Bellingham, Platsburgh etc. Maverick has it right.

[Kip Powick]

I think some of you have tunnel vision and are only looking as a way to level the field for the airline industry.

What about the folks that just want to drive across the border for lunch, take in a show, go fishing for the day, or to an amusement park??

What about those Canadians that have relatives in the US and drive down once a month to see them.

It's more than just about the airline industry and I hope this asinine proposal never sees the light of day.

Here is an odd factoid for you///////////////////

My buddy and I go over to Clayton New York in our boats. We both clear into the USA via video phone at the town docks....No one comes to check the boats.. He is told to have a nice day and I am told I will get a bill for $25.00USD.

Why????????????

Because his boat is less than 30 feet long and mine is longer than 30 feet. I fought that crap up to a senator and was told the reason boats are charged if they are over 30 feet is because it is "on the books" !!! A regulation that was formul;ated back in the 1800s. (Maybe they are still PO about the war of 1812?)

We do NOT charge Americans who come up to our waters, regardless of the size of their boat, and have never done so.

If this X border charges for cars and pedestrians takes root I will be leading the charge to charge Americans two or three times what we have to pay !!

[Seeker]

What about the folks that just want to drive across the border for lunch, take in a show, go fishing for the day, or to an amusement park??

It's simple; eat your lunch in Canada, watch your show in Canada, go to the amusement park in Canada - more money spent here means more jobs, more tax revenue, better services. I've posted before that I think it's the cross-border shopping mentality that's the problem anyways - people drive across the border, spend their money and then when they come back complain about things in Canada costing more and about how there are no jobs for their kids.

Those things are related you know, and we definitely should not charge Americans to cross into Canada (same reasons as above).

[Kip Powick]

It's simple; eat your lunch in Canada, watch your show in Canada, go to the amusement park in Canada - more money spent here means more jobs, more tax revenue, better services. I've posted before that I think it's the cross-border shopping mentality that's the problem anyways - people drive across the border, spend their money and then when they come back complain about things in Canada costing more and about how there are no jobs for their kids.

Those things are related you know, and we definitely should not charge Americans to cross into Canada (same reasons as above).

Really..I mean really...you think x-border shopping has caused Canada to loose jobs?? Which country has higher personal income taxes?? Where is free trade?? Jobs that have been lost in Canada are NOT the result of a few Canadians going across the border to pick up some bargains.

People x-border shop because many things cost less on the other side of the 49th. Our country has higher import taxes on many goods, the same goods sold in USA, that are not made in the USA and not made in Canada..

Example...DVR (same model number-made off-shore) In Canada $269.00 plus 13% tax in ON......In the USA $184.00 ( includes taxes)

Why do so many people, (who can afford to do so), move when retired, to USA or points further south....?....one big reason is our taxes.

Don't get me wrong, I love this country, will not leave it, but let's be realistic when it comes to talking about people slipping across the border to watch a play, visit relatives, or even have a lunch along the south side of the St Lawrence, the idea of charging them is pure BS and just an American tax grab.

You could wall up the USA/Canada border and not one job will materialize up here because shopping/entertainment/dining, etc. in the US is not taking jobs away from Canadians............. that will magically appear up here.

[Super 80]

I think it's great - lets make it an even $100/person each way for a surface crossing - get more people flying and stamp out the leeches in Bellingham, Platsburgh etc. Maverick has it right.

Oh please,

Is there supposed to be a gentlemans agreement here not to exploit such an opportunity?

Under the present policy I don't think there is really much of a leakage, I suspect much of the travel simply wouldn't happen otherwise, and a Harper stooge told me last year that the policy as it stands is not open for negotiation and they will entertain no further discussion of the subject.

So, given I have no reason to believe that bozo didn't speak for the cabinet, where are we?

[Super 80]

This time it's all about money and it just may have legs.

It has always been about money, or more specifically creating a slush fund for immigration authorities to lavish on republican donors.

The border state senators and congressmen will go nuclear on it again and kill it until it is proposed again at some point in the future.

[CanadaEH]

What? A level playing field for the roach airlines like Allegiant and Spirit?

I really don't want to see this but it would certainly help the airlines that actually serve Canada.

If anyone wants to help the airlines it's our own government. And so far they couldn't give a rats ass.

[Seeker]

If anyone wants to help the airlines it's our own government. And so far they couldn't give a rats ass.

Right. Let's see how that would go. The government suddenly decides to give the airlines a tax break, or cut an existing tax, or stop charging airport rent, or whatever. There is now less money available to the government and they would need to raise a tax somewhere else to compensate and make up the shortfall - and then the cross-border shopping crowd says, "I need to buy all my crap in the USA because everything is sooooo expensive in Canada, the taxes are toooooo high and why doesn't the government do something about it." Yeah, that would work.

[Seeker]

Really..I mean really...you think x-border shopping has caused Canada to loose jobs??

You could wall up the USA/Canada border and not one job will materialize up here because shopping/entertainment/dining, etc. in the US is not taking jobs away from Canadians............. that will magically appear up here.

Come on Kip, if you wanted to argue about how many jobs had been lost I'd indulge you but to claim that no jobs have been lost - that's just silly. The millions of single day trips made by Canadians every year amounts to a huge number of Canadian jobs lost.

[Kip Powick]

Come on Kip, if you wanted to argue about how many jobs had been lost I'd indulge you but to claim that no jobs have been lost - that's just silly. The millions of single day trips made by Canadians every year amounts to a huge number of Canadian jobs lost.

Well I would like to discuss the whole "job loss" issue but based on a previous thread I am a bit leery about a discussion where we toss around stats etc., cause I'm afraid that I might receive a PM from you stating that to further our discourse and garner your opinion I am required to send a "Tim's" card or some other appropriate item..

(actually, my boat is calling...time to prep the bateau for summer fun)

[J.O.]

I'm told that since our dollar got to at or near par with the US buck, there has been a large number of retail business closures in border towns. Seems they couldn't compete against US competition that didn't have to pay taxes for pesky nuisances like health care.

[inchman]

Right. Let's see how that would go. The government suddenly decides to give the airlines a tax break, or cut an existing tax, or stop charging airport rent, or whatever. There is now less money available to the government and they would need to raise a tax somewhere else to compensate and make up the shortfall - and then the cross-border shopping crowd says, "I need to buy all my crap in the USA because everything is sooooo expensive in Canada, the taxes are toooooo high and why doesn't the government do something about it." Yeah, that would work.

If the CBSA simply enforced the official taxation rules at the border, that would increase government coffers substantially. I have been back and forth on daily trips quite often and am rarely pulled over to pay the appropriate HST due unless I/we have substantial purchases or have purchased alcohol, which seems to be the primary trigger for some reason (although I have heard that a case of beer is almost always waived through,,,, probably penalty enough that someone would actually have to consume a US brew (couldn't find an emoticon with beer the colour of horse piss). Part of the problem might possibly be the tremendous overhead in the administration at the border. If they streamlined this process, and could collect relatively small amounts of HST efficiently (drive thru?) , it would help out the retail operations on the Canadian side of the border without having to increase taxes further for everyone. A retailer has to collect the 13 cents on a pack of gum, but the CBSA can clear you through without paying when you owe $20 or $30 (or more) in HST and, in some cases, even more in duties for products not produced in the Americas.

I don't like paying taxes any more than the next guy, but if I KNEW I was going to pay the tax and it was fast and easy to do, I would like it better than the current system. At least I know, when I do have to pay taxes, that everyone is subject to the same rules, not subject to the subjectivity or luck of getting the right CBSA officer. Drives me crazy when I bring a few bottles of wine back from Chile and they make me pay tax, when everyone tells me that they regularly bring back 12 bottles and rarely pay.

All that being said, and back to the thread subject, I would LOVE to see a charge for Canadians entering the US. It would keep more money in Canada, in the retail, airline and tax environments.

If more DVRs were sold to Canadians in Canada, instead of Canadians going to the US to buy them, maybe the price would actually be lower in Canada due to lower distribution costs per unit, or maybe being able to bypass US middlemen as Asian products might be shipped directly here. We create our own problems sometimes.

[Seeker]

Part of the problem might possibly be the tremendous overhead in the administration at the border.

This is definitely the main issue - it takes three people and 15 minutes to collect a few bucks in tax and duty. I'd like to see a CBSA service charge implemented to cover the costs associated with processing an entry into the country. Free entry into the country if you have nothing to declare, twenty dollar service charge to process any tax or duty, and a five hundred dollar fine and confiscation of the items for any false declaration. That'd clean things up nicely.

[Seeker]

Well I would like to discuss the whole "job loss" issue but based on a previous thread I am a bit leery about a discussion where we toss around stats etc., cause I'm afraid that I might receive a PM from you stating that to further our discourse and garner your opinion I am required to send a "Tim's" card or some other appropriate item..

(actually, my boat is calling...time to prep the bateau for summer fun)

Haha, good one. For you Kip, my opinion is provided at no charge!

I hear you about the boat calling, still too cold here though to be doing any prep yet but someday soon I hope.

[inchman]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/story/2013/05/10/wdr-border-fees-banned-by-senate.html

The U.S. won't be introducing border crossing fees at land ports of entry.

The Department of Homeland Security had wanted the U.S. Congress to authorize the study of a fee that could be collected from everyone entering the U.S. at land crossings bordering Canada and Mexico.

But the Senate's judiciary committee on Thursday voted to amend the Immigration Reform Bill to ban the fee altogether.

...

The U.S. Senate's judiciary committee also voted Thursday against a fence proposed to be constructed on the Canada-U.S. border.

[Windsor West NDP MP and border issues critic Brian] Masse said a fence would be the beginning of the “militarization of the border.”

"There are several of these nonsensical proposals that keep emerging all along the northern border," Masse said.

He called the U.S. Department of Homeland Security "one of the biggest bureaucracies on the planet."

So, it looks like Canadians will continue to flock to the subsidized US border airports unfettered.