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Air Canda Changes Travel For Employees


wizard

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For my two cents I've often wondered how Jazz on their own would do against AC and even WJ. If they up and decided to go it alone they'd be a formidable competitor I would think. Certainly more than any newcomer would be with a ready pool of qualified staff and an established infrastructure.

Are you under the impression that Jazz is actually an airline? Jazz flies airplanes but it's not an airline. I do agree with the qualified staff comment though.

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Are you under the impression that Jazz is actually an airline? Jazz flies airplanes but it's not an airline. I do agree with the qualified staff comment though.

So true ! Imagine now the identity crisis when, as a pilot, we have to explain to Joe Public for wich airline company you fly for :closedeyes:

I gave up few years ago and just say i am semi-retired and fly for pleasure few days a month :biggrin1:

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For my two cents I've often wondered how Jazz on their own would do against AC and even WJ. If they up and decided to go it alone they'd be a formidable competitor I would think. Certainly more than any newcomer would be with a ready pool of qualified staff and an established infrastructure.

I'd rather they not go that route. I'd rather they stay within the AC INC umbrella with interchangeable passengers, gates, facilities, suppliers etc and to that end get treated the same as any other employee within the AC INC umbrella.

Oh, I don't know. No one to guarantee a 12% yield? Might be a little tougher for Mr Randall to run an airline that actually has to go out and compete! Used to be a guaranteed yield of 14.09%, reduced to 12.75 I believe. Then has the nerve to brag about how Jazz has made $660 over the past 7 years......I'll tell you how....AC has lost at least that much!

Lucrative CPA given by then restructuring officer/henchman/ one third owner of Genuity who owned a large portion of the Income Trust....and now the chickens have come home! Sky Regional was started to put pressure on Jazz to compete. They will be the new Jazz....and just watch what happens over the next few years as the whip saw increases and Buddy Joe has to actually compete for business. My bet? Chorus will be gone in 2020!

Pass priority should be the last thing guys there should be worrying about!

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Are you under the impression that Jazz is actually an airline? Jazz flies airplanes but it's not an airline. I do agree with the qualified staff comment though.

Indeed I am.

Haven't you ever wondered why AC doesn't drive a harder bargain on the CPA?

All it would take would be for Chorus/Jazz to tell AC they don't want to renew the CPA.

They'd then be in a pretty lucrative position to usurp WJ and Rouge.

Jazz would already have had their 737s on order.

The have a fairly cooperative and I daresay more motivated employee group.

They'd work for the same pay, maybe even less.

The cost structure would be lower.

They wouldn't be held to the ACPPA

They even have a well established reputation and brand courtesy of AC. People wouldn't think twice about switching to Jazz.

AC would have to scramble to replace the feed and also deal with a substantial new competitor all at once. How long do you think AC survive under those circumstances?

I expect they could even hire Milton to really rub it in.

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Indeed I am.

Haven't you ever wondered why AC doesn't drive a harder bargain on the CPA?

All it would take would be for Chorus/Jazz to tell AC they don't want to renew the CPA.

They'd then be in a pretty lucrative position to usurp WJ and Rouge.

Jazz would already have had their 737s on order.

The have a fairly cooperative and I daresay more motivated employee group.

They'd work for the same pay, maybe even less.

The cost structure would be lower.

They wouldn't be held to the ACPPA

They even have a well established reputation and brand courtesy of AC. People wouldn't think twice about switching to Jazz.

AC would have to scramble to replace the feed and also deal with a substantial new competitor all at once. How long do you think AC survive under those circumstances?

I expect they could even hire Milton to really rub it in.

I have no doubt of the aptitudes of the employee group but your idea minimizes the importance of many facts.

While past results are not garant of future results, look up Atlantic Coast Airline (or independance air). They tried to do it alone after failing to renegotiate their contract with United. It's quite a change to go from providing airlift to running an airline.

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Maybe so. Maybe not.

We (AC folks) have a lot more in common with the Jazz folks than we have differences and the travel benefits should reflect that.

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The "J" SA passes(3) are VERY unlikely to convert to actual "J" seats for MOST pass travelers. I believe that there was opposition to a "Pay for "J"" plan (without "enhanced" priority) because it was "elitist"---- a benefit for employees "of means".

I don't understand why retirees get the same enhanced pass travel as active employees. Yes--I know that the upgradeable pass isn't fee-waived for retirees but the upgradeable aspect is tied to years of service which necessarily means that the 10 year; 15 year; hell---25 year active employee will be using that pass to sit in the back while a retiree is in "J" enjoying a benefit that wasn't available "back in the day".

Point of clarity----I do not question the earned right of retirees to pass travel. I am only referencing the privilege of SA access to "J". Basically, you have 3 fee-waived passes. However, with the significant reduction in the fee, the waiver is of limited value. It is the SA upgrade that is important (to me, at least) and I anticipate that the benefit in that regard will most likely be enjoyed only by retirees and long-service employees.

That is essentially acknowledged by the company's reference to the enhanced positive space program to be unveiled in April.

Okay---I admit. I'd be more than happy to pay an upgrade fee for "J"---$150? Isn't that "revenue positive" for the company? One proviso----if there is no room upfront, then I take a seat in "Y" at the "Y" rate.

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I find the whole Jazz/Chorus "debate/discussion" so very depressing. As some on this forum know, an entire horde of AC pilots in 1995 jumped on the anti-Picher bandwagon without expending any real effort or brainpower on an analysis of the decision and its limited impact. Guys in the left seat of the 747 were signing petitions and drafting letters in the belief that an Air BC pilot with more years of service would bump him (her) out of the seat. Truthfully. And did anybody even pause to ask how many regional pilots had 15 or more years of service? Nope!!

So here we are again with posters outraged that a Jazz flight attendant----a lowly flight attendant, by God----could board an AC flight in priority to an AC pilot because she had worked for Jazz (and Air Nova or the like) since 1986. Believe me----there are not a whole raft of Jazz flight attendants with that level of perseverance.

And---as an aside---for at least 14 years of that service, that Air Nova/ACR/Jazz flight attendant was actually employed by the "common employer"--Air Canada.

That said----I was in Victoria one time trying to return to YYZ. The flights were all full. The Jazz staff expended a real effort on my behalf (and without my knowledge) getting approval for me to ride the JS in the belief that I was an AC pilot. Unfortunately, I had to confess that my demeanour notwithstanding, I only THOUGHT I was a pilot and I continued my wait for a cabin seat.

I remain thankful, however, that those Jazz employees were NOT saying to themselves; "Oh, to hell with him. He's with mainline!"

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Upperdeck: re senior and retired employees. Think of it as a reward for many years of service building an airline that has a "J" product that can be used for pass travel and of course an airline that offers a steady paycheque in a time when many others have failed and closed their doors. :icon_anal:

Hmmmmmm! Nope----I tried REALLY hard and just couldn't accomplish the assigned task. I'm thinking that the retired employee WAS rewarded for their effort and hard work with pay and passes and earned the continuation of those pass privileges beyond retirement. I'm not convinced that they also earned benefits that are allegedly intended to reward current employees for their ongoing contributions.

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but they don't, current employees get the passes free. Retirees have to pay for them. :biggrin1: and of course "J" access once granted always included retirees so why should this change to suit relative "newbees"?

Tell me (if you don't mind)---if, as a retiree, you have the luxury of choosing your dates of travel without regard to the necessity of being at the office "on Monday", is it too burdensome to have to plan your travel for days when loads are the lightest?

And---do you happen to know off-hand when Air Canada first extended to employees the benefit of access to "J" on a space available basis?

Any opinions on the reasonableness of extending to friends (up to four) of the employee/spouse access to the aircraft based on the employee's service date?

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but they don't, current employees get the passes free. Retirees have to pay for them. :biggrin1: and of course "J" access once granted always included retirees so why should this change to suit relative "newbees"?

Wrong.....current employees pay service charges, AIFs, security, and Immigration/customs fees!

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UD,

Tell me (if you don't mind)---if, as a retiree, you have the luxury of choosing your dates of travel without regard to the necessity of being at the office "on Monday

If you are simply going to visit friends/kids etc. on an Ad Hoc basis then travel can certainly be flexible but I think the calendar will often get in the way.

I suspect that most everyone, (retirees included), when they have a purpose for travel will very often have some sort of time/date constraint involved in their plans.

From hotel or condo packages (that may well be paid in advance), to cruise ship departures or say weddings, funerals and christenings and so on, being flexible in your timing may not always be an easy option.

We have opted a number of times to go outbound full fare if our priority and the space looks iffy, and try coming home on a pass if it looks good. On one route we travel annually we have given up on pass travel and pay full fare like like every one else, we don't want to lose any of the time we have the condo for by not getting out and once I am packed and ready to get home I want to get home.

Returning home as you say may not have the same Monday at work pressures but I hope you can understand that "not getting on", having to retrieve your bags, find accommodation, etc, etc, not to mention the costs that entails, make me reluctant not to use the travel priority that I have under the system in place.

The problem I had with the C1 was that on a tight route you ended up spending the money for it simply to protect your boarding priority, knowing that all too often you were not going to get in J anyway, and the company kept the money. They sold you back your own seniority in other words.

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I like to remember that retirees get more junior every day while I get more senior.

I haven't used a pass in years. Not worth the hassle, to me. What I really like is the the 20% off of any fare you can find for confirmed travel. That's going to save me and my family some money, and no stress when traveling to boot.

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One comment of choosing travel, as a retiree my travel is mostly to accommodate a fixed date and thus most of my travel is done using full revenue tickets. That being said , being bumped when one is a retiree does not result in a job penalty but it does result in additional unforeseen expenses that must be paid for out of a "non indexed" limited pension.

Before I go any further on this subject, I need to know where you are coming from.

1. Active Junior AC employee

2. Spouse of active Junior AC employee

3. None of the above.

Betting on 3. :Grin-Nod:

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Malcolm....

I would hope that my posts (questions) on the subject were recognized as inquisitive rather than combative. Certainly, I have opinions but they are not fervently held and I appreciate reading contrary opinions based on experience.

I 'm reasonably certain that if I enjoyed a benefit of employment whether active or past, I'd be inclined to defend the continuation or enhancement of that benefit. Nothing is quite so hard to rescind as something given.

And in response to your "preliminary" question-----the answer is wholly dependent upon your definition of "junior". Less than 25 years? Then (to Kip's surprise), I fall within the "junior" category.

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Sorry, Malcolm but I don't understand your response;

"I know of a number of spouses who use their partner's travel benefits to supplement their own personal travel more so than when the family is moving as a group, that tends to cloud their viewpoint regarding boarding priorities."

Never mind----it really isn't that compelling a subject and I'm certain you have better things to do with your time than respond to my questions about your travel arrangements.

Have a good one....

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I've never got my head around the passes for multiple friends. Isn't an airline in business to move people in return for profit? I don't know of any friends with employers that will provide me with the same benefit their active employees may be entitled to.

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I've never got my head around the passes for multiple friends. Isn't an airline in business to move people in return for profit? I don't know of any friends with employers that will provide me with the same benefit their active employees may be entitled to.

Defcon....

Aren't you friends with any farmers? I'm reasonably certain field hands get access to produce and what kind of friend wouldn't share the same bounty with his buddy?

Are we at page 5 yet?

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Since I retired at the end of 2008 I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I have travelled on benefits, Of course I did not retire from AC or Jazz.

(Almost there....)

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Is buying a revenue ticket rather than using a pass the same as buying seniority?

No way..(by purchasing a revenue ticket one becomes "Joe pax/guest" :biggrin1: ).It just means you want to guarantee you get on the flight and ensure you get to your destination at the time you want.

Scuba02 and I have used "passes" about 4 times in the past 10 years, always mid week ......YYZ-DEN(OAL)-SLC(OAL)-DEN-YYZ

The rest of the time, twice, we have bought full fare tickets...(A).didn't want to miss my high school 50th reunion and ( B) once for a funeral out west

*(edit to add)...WhooooHooo.......... here I am on page 5 :Grin-Nod::Grin-Nod: :Grin-Nod: :Grin-Nod:

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