internet Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 What monopolies can do....Sorry to Calgarians that you don't have a Bellingham or Buffalo to revert to.http://m.calgarysun.com/2012/12/05/calgary-airport-authority-ups-improvement-fee-from-25-to-30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavok Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 What monopolies can do....Sorry to Calgarians that you don't have a Bellingham or Buffalo to revert to.http://m.calgarysun....e-from-25-to-30How then do you propose they raise the money for their airport development plan?The airports operate on a cost recovery model. The money has to come from somewhere.I personally believe that the government should be funding large infrastructure projects that benefit the general public, but we drank our poison when people in this country decided that flying is a sin, and should be taxed accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airband Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 .Improvements don't come cheap.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innuendo Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 The idea of airports becoming art galleries is out of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebean Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 The YYC airport authority must thank the Gods every night that Great Falls isn't 90 minutes away.With the appropriate runway length, ILS, and an ultra competitive suite of airport charges including cheap parking and a $5-$7 aif and Red Deer starts to look very interesting for leisure flying.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 How then do you propose they raise the money for their airport development plan?The airports operate on a cost recovery model. The money has to come from somewhere.I personally believe that the government should be funding large infrastructure projects that benefit the general public, but we drank our poison when people in this country decided that flying is a sin, and should be taxed accordingly.What exactly is YYC building, and does it really need it?I've found with these fees that they stimulate a vicious circle. The availability of secure funding leads to the building of Taj Mahal terminals. It's like an opiate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
internet Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 Doubling the size of the terminal with a new US/International wing and a new parallel runway.Any airport authority operate with variable pricing? That is to say they charge airlines higher fees for departures at peak times when the gates are all full, and less at times when the 12 gate concourse has two airplanes parked there? Maybe stimulate demand when the airport has capacity? Instead of building 12 more gates that would be used for 2 hours a day?I wonder if this system of supply and demand / or yield management could work in this crazy aviation business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 What exactly is YYC building, and does it really need it?The expansion of the terminal is shown in black and the new runway and taxiway system is shown in red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebean Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 What exactly is YYC building, and does it really need it?I've found with these fees that they stimulate a vicious circle. The availability of secure funding leads to the building of Taj Mahal terminals. It's like an opiateIt's a self- fulfilling prophecy.LAA's have become construction companies.If they don't build something, somewhere, a significant proportion of high paying LAA jobs disappear.The system is completely, utterly and hopelessly a$$ backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 The expansion of the terminal is shown in black and the new runway and taxiway system is shown in red.You answered the first part of my question, but how about the second part: Is it really needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airt Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 You answered the first part of my question, but how about the second part: Is it really needed?I think so.YYC used to be one of the best airports in Canada to operate out of...now it's probably the worst. Delays galore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Worse than the CDF (central delay facility) in YYZ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Airport Authorities are NON PROFIT organizations. All the money raised needs to be spent. hence high paying jobs, art in the terminals and ongoing (seemingly usless) construction. They gotta spend it if they make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airt Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Worse than the CDF (central delay facility) in YYZ? I think the YYZ CDF has improved dramatically and runs efficiently as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
internet Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 Airport Authorities are NON PROFIT organizations. All the money raised needs to be spent. hence high paying jobs, art in the terminals and ongoing (seemingly usless) construction. They gotta spend it if they make it.That's the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fido Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 YYC needed the new parallel runway 20 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropzone Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 If you can, fight back....fly from a US airport... ....maybe someday the idiots in charge will get the message.........but probably not...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
better4me Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Both the parrallel runway and the new terminal are needed at YYC.The runway is needed for obvious reasons. That said it will be a total gong show when the cross wind runway has to be used due to chinook winds.The International terminal is needed because the central processor stuff (post security retail, lounges, customs facilities, security facilities) is grossl;y over capacity. While it can be argued that more gates are not required, atleast not 22 more gates, the fact is that this move will obliterate AC and WS ability to use swing gates. There will now be dedicated gates for international, transborder, and domestic. n Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 80 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 If I were a very wealthy man I would be going into business with Indian bands and building these on Tsuu T'ina, Enoch and other reserves near major cities too far from the US border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airt Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 If I were a very wealthy man I would be going into business with Indian bands and building these on Tsuu T'ina, Enoch and other reserves near major cities too far from the US border.What a great idea. The Feds are so scared ****less of rocking the "Aboriginal canoe" , they would probably get away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 80 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I think INAC would love it. Tangible economic development on-reserve without the messy administrative matters associated with oil and gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon The Loon Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Can't say I disagree, BUTWill the new runway be Cat II or better still Cat IIIa capable? Or in this post-modern, PBN world, LPV or LNAV/VNAV cabable? Or even better still, what WestJet has been able to develop for many of the airports they serve??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W5 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 If I were a very wealthy man I would be going into business with Indian bands and building these on Tsuu T'ina, Enoch and other reserves near major cities too far from the US border.Didn't the Enoch propose that very idea as an alternative in response to the closure of CYXD (Edmonton Muni, or whatever it is called these days), as well as an alternative home for the Alberta Aviation Museum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNoFlyZone Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Both the parrallel runway and the new terminal are needed at YYC.The runway is needed for obvious reasons. That said it will be a total gong show when the cross wind runway has to be used due to chinook winds.The International terminal is needed because the central processor stuff (post security retail, lounges, customs facilities, security facilities) is grossl;y over capacity. While it can be argued that more gates are not required, atleast not 22 more gates, the fact is that this move will obliterate AC and WS ability to use swing gates. There will now be dedicated gates for international, transborder, and domestic. nDefinately not 22 gates. let's not forget that YYC is mostly a domestic airport (9 million domesic pax/year). This new terminal building will sit idle for most of the day. YYC only handles 1.3 million international passengers and 2.5 million transborder ones each year. 22 gates are not needed for only 3.8 million passengers a year.Can't say I disagree, BUTWill the new runway be Cat II or better still Cat IIIa capable? Or in this post-modern, PBN world, LPV or LNAV/VNAV cabable? Or even better still, what WestJet has been able to develop for many of the airports they serve???CATIIIA.Thenoflyzone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavok Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Firstly, allow me to apologize and for posting to this thread and not checking back until now.I know the forum. I've been reading it for years. I've been reading the same points being made by the same people for years.If the expansion of YYC needed? I think so. So do the airlines that operate there.Does the building need art? Probably not, but we're talking about a very, very small amount of money in the big picture. So, instead of a $2 billion dollar project, it can become a $1.995 billion project. Why does WJ have in flight TV and leather seats? Why not simple plastic benches that cost less money? Millions of people spend millions of hours a year in terminal buildings. A little art isn't going to hurt anyone. Especially if the art is carefully placed to co-exist with places to eat and relax. The more inviting a terminal building is, the earlier people show up for flights. The earlier they show up for flights, the more money is generated in non-aeronautical revenue by the airport authority. The more non-aero revenue is generated, the lower the landing fees becomes. This is called a single-till environment and is how AAs in Canada are structured. Shopping, amenties (and even art) all play a role in generating that extra money to offset the fees that airlines pay.Let's think about this from another perspective. A well designed and efficiently operated airport with room to grow is very beneficial to airlines. How successful would Air Canada be if we were still operating out of the old T1/T2? Would they be growing connection activity as they have been in the past few years?WJ has quite a few new aircraft coming on line in the next few years, how much can they grow at an airport with intersecting runways? WestJet's expansion over the next decade will almost surely be focused on transborder and international flights and I predict that terminal will be full pretty quickly.The perspective I never see on here is that a well designed airfield/terminal can be an enabler to the success of the airlines that operate from it. Was Lou Turpin a stubborn ass of a man that made enemies of everyone in Toronto? Yes. Was building the terminal the right decision? Looking back on it today, I can say unequivocally that it was. It took some testicular fortitude on the part of the airport authorities to tell the airlines what they needed when the airlines said they didn't need it. Over the past two years, Air Canada press releases have contained nothing but praise for the GTAA regarding the world class facilities and operational efficiencies at YYZ, including the cost efficiencies that have enabled the reduction of rates and charges year over year.Airport authorities, love them or hate them, operate on a completely different planning horizon than airlines. While Air Canada and WestJet can't see more than two years out, airports are planning decades in to the future. In YYC, airlines will complain about costs and AIFs for years, but in ten years, when those gates are filled with WJ aircraft, they'll be singing a different tune. Just as Air Canada is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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