Pilot Sick In Rumour Starts In Yyz

[dagger]

I'll bite.

Removal of CR by the BOD and a replacement with someone less confrontational and more attuned to the employee's concerns.

This can't continue much longer without someone's head rolling.

I can think of 97 heads that could roll, too.

[Dork]

Dag..that number represents 97%. Just a correction on the number you are using. Nothing more implied.

Dork

[FA@AC]

This can't continue much longer without someone's head rolling.

But it won't continue much longer anyway. Either things will end at the hand of the CIRB or the job action will fizzle out on its own. In a few days this will have blown over one way or the other.

I think it's high time that Calin and his team be replaced by people who have ideas other than the formation of AC's umpteenth LCC to turn the business around, but I fail to see how a sickout will do anyone any good.

[dagger]

I'll bite.

Removal of CR by the BOD and a replacement with someone less confrontational and more attuned to the employee's concerns.

This can't continue much longer without someone's head rolling.

Ya, and then when the successor can't satisfy your demands, I guess his or her head will roll, too. You can't fool anybody with this nonsense. I've watched this union for too long to know otherwise. Did getting McLelland's head in 1998 make you more amenable in 2000? Not at all. You actually had the nerve to demand parity with UA pilots.

Would you accept parity with UA pilots today? How about their pension, plan, too?

I say, let the pilots BUY Air Canada.

After all, if you are Air Canada, like you claim, you should own it, and fund, and pay for new planes. Heck, just firing a few executives ought to do it, right? I mean their salaries combined will get you, what, a few dozen tires for the 777s?

Come on, man, put your money where your mouth is.

The stock is at 84 cents. You could all buy AC with your per-diems.

[DEFCON]

You really have to appreciate a real leader like American's G.A. How refreshing to note, there's an honest broker out there.

This story, like so many others, demonstrates the failure that current bankruptcy law is. Today's MBA slurp has used the protection of the law to cover his tracks and provide himself with huge financial gains while 'sticking it' to all the other stakeholders that were stupid enough to follow his lead. Sadly and only because this law wasn't well thought out, or was it; the failed organization re-emerges and becomes an instant infectious agent to all other healthy, well run & led competitors?

Is bankruptcy law, ‘good business’ , or something else designed and developed to serve the select few?

[airt]

But it won't continue much longer anyway. Either things will end at the hand of the CIRB or the job action will fizzle out on its own. In a few days this will have blown over one way or the other.

I think it's high time that Calin and his team be replaced by people who have ideas other than the formation of AC's umpteenth LCC to turn the business around, but I fail to see how a sickout will do anyone any good.

I was refering to what "appears" to be a series of rotating sickouts. This one will blow over but how long before the travelling public clues in and stops taking the chance of getting caught up in the next one.

There are rumblings out there of those looking for CR's head.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-canada-aeroplan/1335500-rovinescu-fix.html

As dagger says , it's highly debatable as to whether it would make any difference anyway but at some point the BOD will have to be seen to be doing somethiinngggg , anything.

[FA@AC]

As dagger says , it's highly debatable as to whether it would make any difference anyway but at some point the BOD will have to be seen to be doing somethiinngggg , anything.

Perhaps having obtained the CIRB ruling will be seen as sufficient. If not, it's probably more likely that the "doing somethiinngggg, anything" will result in coming down even harder on ACPA than bringing about Calin's ouster.

In more good news for the travelling public, I just noticed that the FLIGHT STATUS function on AC's website is now down.

[airt]

Perhaps having obtained the CIRB ruling will be seen as sufficient. If not, it's probably more likely that the "doing somethiinngggg, anything" will result in coming down even harder on ACPA than bringing about Calin's ouster.

In more good news for the travelling public, I just noticed that the FLIGHT STATUS function on AC's website is now down.

Coming down harder on ACPA has so far not worked out very well. Maybe AC management can beat them into submission but it's not looking good so far.

As I've stated before , I admire CR in many ways but it would be far from the first time that the boss was sacrificed at the alter to appease the troops.

[FA@AC]

Coming down harder on ACPA has so far not worked out very well.

No, but it isn`t yet over. Of course, even if this ends with AC getting everything they want, that may not work out well for them either. It`s proably too early to say.

On the flip side, how do you think that ACPA`s tactics have worked out so far?

[airt]

No, but it isn`t yet over. Of course, even if this ends with AC getting everything they want, that may not work out well for them either. It`s proably too early to say.

On the flip side, how do you think that ACPA`s tactics have worked out so far?

It looks to me like no one is going to come out ahead in this "War of the Roses".

So far it looks like the CSA's , Flight attendants and engineers have accepted their fate. ACPA's tactics have kept them in the game ...so far.

[FA@AC]

I'm not sure that being headed for final offer arbitration after a rebuke from the CIRB (which could become worse if AC decides to dust off its files about the alleged sickout in YUL last month) is the kind of game I'd want to be in.

[airt]

I'm not sure that being headed for final offer arbitration after a rebuke from the CIRB (which could become worse if AC decides to dust off its files about the alleged sickout in YUL last month) is the kind of game I'd want to be in.

Man , I hear ya.

If it wasn't for the Cons interference I think this would work out much better for the pilots but now it's just a matter of how bad it's going to be.

[Dork]

I'm not sure that being headed for final offer arbitration after a rebuke from the CIRB (which could become worse if AC decides to dust off its files about the alleged sickout in YUL last month) is the kind of game I'd want to be in.

Perhaps another legal thought on the matter...

http://www.yorku.ca/ddoorey/lawblog/?p=5136

Dork

[DEFCON]

There was a plan created long ago and at about the same time CR first showed up on scene to assist in 'breaking-out the value' in AC. Their game is well underway and now employs the unwitting government as simple suckers brought in to support the process. When they've finally all got their 'ducks-in-a-row', the real hell will begin. But, it's all the fault of the employees anyway and not the self-greasing wheels that are supposed to know how to run an airline.

A bankruptcy lawyer playing the CEO of an international airline....come on, really?

[Dork]

There was a plan created long ago and at about the same time CR first showed up on scene to assist in 'breaking-out the value' in AC. Their game is well underway and now employs the unwitting government as simple suckers brought in to support the process. When they've finally all got their 'ducks-in-a-row', the real hell will begin. But, it's all the fault of the employees anyway and not the self-greasing wheels that are supposed to know how to run an airline.

A bankruptcy lawyer playing the CEO of an international airline....come on, really?

Bravo..Bravo..best post all day.

Dork

[FA@AC]

If it wasn't for the Cons interference I think this would work out

So do I. I think that most employees understand that the best case scenario for us after a second CCAA filing is huge concessions, substantial reductions to pension benefits, substantial job losses due to downsizing or outsourcing or both, and that liquidation wouldn't be out of the question. It might even be likely as I can't imagine why anyone would invest in an airline that had been forced into CCAA by strike action, whether legal or not.

For that reason, I have always believed that had this government stayed out of things, the parties would have had to bargain under higher stakes and cooler heads would have won over in the end. I have never thought that any of our unions would be dumb enough to blow its own brains out, but I'm now having second thoughts in the case of ACPA.

[moeman]

Do you think it's an ACPA problem or more of a problem with certain ACPA members? Might be time for the rest of the membership, the silent majority, to take control of the situation before irreparable harm is done.

[blues deville]

http://blogs.canada.com/2012/03/21/dear-air-canada-im-breaking-up-with-you/

[FA@AC]

Do you think it's an ACPA problem or more of a problem with certain ACPA members?

I think it's a problem with a small minority of ACPA members, but that it starts, unfortunately, with JMB. His memo of a few weeks back about booking off leads me to conclude that he has far more ego than brains.

[DEFCON]

I just can't understand how this sort of lawful 'presumption' can exist in a supposedly free and democratic country?

37. For the purposes of this Act, the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers and the Air Canada Pilots Association are deemed to be persons.

[J.O.]

It's my understanding that a corporation is also deemed as a person in law. It is so they can be held to the same principles of law as can a person.

[props2you]

http://blogs.canada....ng-up-with-you/

Its worthwhile posting that outright, for all those who won't click on the link. Might make all the hotheads think twice about the inevitable result of their actions today (and other days), and how the person who really pays your salary thinks

Dear Air Canada:

This is a hard letter to write. We’ve been together a long time. We’ve seen Vancouver and Ottawa together. You took me on my first trip to Newfoundland (and got me home in one piece after I had been “screeched.”) Those were good times.

But those times are gone, Air Canada...

...You see, Air Canada, I have to be strong and accept that ours was an abusive relationship. You took advantage of me, Air Canada. Sure, things started out great. You were easy to get along with, happy to see me and spend time with me. You were quick to laugh and smile. But then I started to see your surly side. Your snippy side. Your “I don’t give a crap” side. You held me hostage with threats of strikes and led me on with promises of doing better. But you never really tried. I tried to deny that you were hurting me. Even when my friends called me crazy and told me to be strong, to move on, I defended you. I said: Air Canada’s trying REALLY hard. I’m going to give it one more chance.

But after what you did on Sunday – not just to me, but to thousands of others – I finally faced the truth. You just don’t care about me. How could your pilots call in sick en masse, leaving Canadians stranded and unable to get home from March Break on one of the busiest travel weekends of the year? How could you cancel flights with 20 minutes’ notice and not even apologize? How could you be smug and entitled about your behaviour when you made me spend an extra $800 to get to where I was going?

No, I can’t hear any more excuses. I need a clean break.

[blues deville]

Its worthwhile posting that outright, for all those who won't click on the link. Might make all the hotheads think twice about the inevitable result of their actions today (and other days), and how the person who really pays your salary thinks

Good idea. Thanks. Part of it did not copy so here it is in full.

Dear Air Canada:

This is a hard letter to write. We’ve been together a long time. We’ve seen Vancouver and Ottawa together. You took me on my first trip to Newfoundland (and got me home in one piece after I had been “screeched.”) Those were good times.

But those times are gone, Air Canada.

I wanted you to be the first to know: I’m leaving you.  I didn’t want you to learn it from someone else, or to hear it whispered that I was spotted here in Calgary slipping onto a West Jet flight to Toronto.

You see, Air Canada, I have to be strong and accept that ours was an abusive relationship. You took advantage of me, Air Canada. Sure, things started out great. You were easy to get along with, happy to see me and spend time with me. You were quick to laugh and smile. But then I started to see your surly side. Your snippy side. Your “I don’t give a crap” side. You held me hostage with threats of strikes and led me on with promises of doing better. But you never really tried. I tried to deny that you were hurting me. Even when my friends called me crazy and told me to be strong, to move on, I defended you. I said: Air Canada’s trying REALLY hard. I’m going to give it one more chance.

But after what you did on Sunday – not just to me, but to thousands of others – I finally faced the truth. You just don’t care about me. How could your pilots call in sick en masse, leaving Canadians stranded and unable to get home from March Break on one of the busiest travel weekends of the year? How could you cancel flights with 20 minutes’ notice and not even apologize? How could you be smug and entitled about your behaviour when you made me spend an extra $800 to get to where I was going?

No, I can’t hear any more excuses. I need a clean break.

But please know that, just because I’m leaving you, I am not insensitive to what you’re going through. I know you have family issues you’re dealing with and you’re under a lot of pressure. I know you’re unhappy. But I just can’t get caught in the middle anymore.

I hope you get things sorted out but, in the meantime, I’m going to be exploring my relationship with West Jet.

If you take just one thing from this rejection, please remember: It’s not me. It’s you.

Sincerely,

Rachel Sa

[chockalicious]

Nice work gatekeeper, what you posted was not by a WS employee, but stikr out like a 3 year old. Anything to avoid looking in the mirror I guess.

[blues deville]

Not an employee but I predict WS will have some record breaking load factors over the next few months while AC and their employees sort out this mess.

AC employees should remember that several foreign airlines operate daily into every major Canadian city. Westjet's got most of the country now covered domestically. Other smaller operators connect the remote parts of the north.

If you really want to shut down your own airline, keep it up. You will be another page in Canadian aviation history and life will go on.

Believe me.