Iamaw Members Reject Contract Offer...

[rudder]

Sorry dagger, you are wrong on this one.

The parties already tried to bury the negative response to the TA from the AME's within the broader bargaining unit. That failed for both the IAM, AC, as well as all of the other parties to the process including Justice Otis and the Minister of Labour.

Know the definition of insanity? Well, ignoring the reality of this situation is simply deferring the problem. The Minister does in fact have the power to do almost anything. At least that is what she has represented this far. I do not see why an application during the open period could not be considered.

The Minister just put ACPA on ice for 6 months. She could do the same with the IAM.

[mrlupin]

Sorry dagger, you are wrong on this one.

The parties already tried to bury the negative response to the TA from the AME's within the broader bargaining unit. That failed for both the IAM, AC, as well as all of the other parties to the process including Justice Otis and the Minister of Labour.

Know the definition of insanity? Well, ignoring the reality of this situation is simply deferring the problem. The Minister does in fact have the power to do almost anything. At least that is what she has represented this far. I do not see why an application during the open period could not be considered.

The Minister just put ACPA on ice for 6 months. She could do the same with the IAM.

6 months on ice... during that time, the window is open for raiding from other unions and/or ousting the IAM.

The decertification process is quite simple. AC has done most of the grunt work. By selling off AVEOS, the airline has created a distinct maintenance group. This time, it would not be able to fudge the numbers by increasing the maintenance group size. That number is now easily determinable. A simple canvassing would easily get over 50% of the members to agree to change. Most employees now despise the IAM. Maybe that avenue is worth further investigation now. It all depends on the time available.

There are problem associated with decertification but in these times, they are more related to choosing a proper replacement then removing the present union.

[Maverick]

Hey GateKeeper... No apologies required. French form France but Canadian now and forever. Only trying to understand this mess.

You do know the French take Union's and Strikes very seriously. I still can't understand how having one union for two professions. One will naturally try and take care of themselves and family which may not be advantageous to the other.

All kidding aside, speaking from an ex-IAWAW shop steward's POV it was one of the most frustrating things I've ever dealt with. In fact it was one of the primary reasons I ultimately quit and moved on. I felt at the time (correctly as it turned out) that the AME's would never have their profession properly recognized, ether by the union or the company.

I truly mean no disrespect to the rampies but their needs are so different from ours that there is no way we ever should have been lumped together in the first place.

Water under the bridge for me but I feel for my brethren that are still there.

[boestar]

I believe the application to decertify the union has to be submitted to the board 6 months PRIOR to the expiration of the contract in force in order to move forward. Now since there is currently no contract in force as the current contrat has expired there could definately be an avenue for this. I would expect that this is in fact something the company would like to see happen. The IAM on the other hand would not as it would mean many thousands of dollars in revenue lost. It would be a bitter battle.

[Guest]

I've been hearing that urban legend for 25 years now, don't know if there's any truth to it. Doesn't matter now anyway.

There could be a silver lining in this cloud. I was told by one of our negots guys that Madame Otis was dismayed that Maintenance was included in the Airports group for the vote, and that she believes strongly that we should be separate. Perhaps she will include this information in her report to Labour Minister Raitt.

I asked my father this question when I was a teenager as he was an AC employee from back to the TCA days, he said that back then they did have the choice, they opted to go with the IAM as in those days they were actually a strong union and at the, strenght in numbers for dealing with a crown corp meant something. In todays world, one side restricts the other

[Guest]

I believe the application to decertify the union has to be submitted to the board 6 months PRIOR to the expiration of the contract in force in order to move forward. Now since there is currently no contract in force as the current contrat has expired there could definately be an avenue for this. I would expect that this is in fact something the company would like to see happen. The IAM on the other hand would not as it would mean many thousands of dollars in revenue lost. It would be a bitter battle.

Part of the OTIS report is that the unit must be broken into two separate units.

[boestar]

You can only apply to decertify the union during an open time period. Also, unless the CIRB agrees, you cannot apply during a legal lockout.

The open time periods are:

Where a collective agreement is in force

• If the Collective Agreement is for 3 years duration, or less: during the last 3 months of the collective agreement.
  
• If the collective agreement is for greater than 3 years: during the last 3 months of the third year, during the last 3 months of each year thereafter, or during the last 3 months of the collective agreement.
  
• If the employer voluntarily recognized the union: at any time during the first year of the collective agreement. After the first year of the collective agreement, the timing rules set out in (a) and ( above apply.
  
• If a collective agreement is for 3 years or less and if the collective agreement has expired and if a new collective agreement has not been negotiated, a decertification application may be filed.
  

Where a collective agreement is not in force

• If it has been 1 year since the union was certified by the CIRB, and if the Board is satisfied that the Union has not made reasonable efforts to reach a collective agreement.
  

I would say it is time to make the move according to the above ...

[skyline]

Since it looks like the Minister might be successful in a six month extension, can AC afford the time?

[dagger]

Since it looks like the Minister might be successful in a six month extension, can AC afford the time?

Isn't the better question whether the IAM can afford the time?

If maintenance wants to mount a dicert drive, it's in the IAM's best interest to force this to a conclusion ASAP. Go in, sign a second TA, have it rejected, minister labels situation dysfunctional like she did with CUPE, has CIRB impose contract. All in time for March break.

Like I said, wash, rinse, repeat.

[FireFox]

You can only apply to decertify the union during an open time period. Also, unless the CIRB agrees, you cannot apply during a legal lockout.

The open time periods are:

Where a collective agreement is in force

• If the Collective Agreement is for 3 years duration, or less: during the last 3 months of the collective agreement.
  
• If the collective agreement is for greater than 3 years: during the last 3 months of the third year, during the last 3 months of each year thereafter, or during the last 3 months of the collective agreement.
  
• If the employer voluntarily recognized the union: at any time during the first year of the collective agreement. After the first year of the collective agreement, the timing rules set out in (a) and ( above apply.
  
• If a collective agreement is for 3 years or less and if the collective agreement has expired and if a new collective agreement has not been negotiated, a decertification application may be filed.
  

Where a collective agreement is not in force

• If it has been 1 year since the union was certified by the CIRB, and if the Board is satisfied that the Union has not made reasonable efforts to reach a collective agreement.
  

I would say it is time to make the move according to the above ...

I can't believe some of you armchair quarterbacks are buying the BS Robert is peddling.

You sound like an AC employee...check the AC Family Forum & see the reaction to the vote.

[boestar]

I WAS an AC Employye. The whole situation with the IAM has ALWAYS been bad for engineers.

How can I check the forum when I am not an employee......

[Guest]

I can't believe some of you armchair quarterbacks are buying the BS Robert is peddling.

You sound like an AC employee...check the AC Family Forum & see the reaction to the vote.

Ask yourself this, if it was not for tagging on the coat tails of maintenance, why else to you think you as a station attendant are aprox 20k ahead of your nearest competitor.

[FireFox]

Ask yourself this, if it was not for tagging on the coat tails of maintenance, why else to you think you as a station attendant are aprox 20k ahead of your nearest competitor.

Bullcrap.

Back that up with some factual statements that can be verified.

Your attempt at deflection is amateurish at best.

[UpperDeck]

I WAS an AC Employye. The whole situation with the IAM has ALWAYS been bad for engineers.

How can I check the forum when I am not an employee......

Boestar...

You don't have to be "active" to belong to that forum. At least---you didn't when last I was there.

[boestar]

you need an employee number and since I cannot even remember my employee number it doesnt mean much.

[Guest]

Bullcrap.

Back that up with some factual statements that can be verified.

Your attempt at deflection is amateurish at best.

This is the AC scale right from the CA

PERIOD

JULY 1, 2009/MARCH 31, 2011

AIRPORTS & CARGO OPERATIONS

WEEKLY RATE

HOURLY EQUIV.

MONTHLY EQUIV.

1.75%

Lead Cargo Rating Unit Specialist

$1,143.18

$ 30.48

$4,970.78

Cargo Rating Unit Specialist 3

$1,095.10

$ 29.20

$4,761.73

Cargo Rating Unit Specialist 2

$1,063.73

$ 28.37

$4,625.32

Cargo Rating Unit Specialist 1

$ 985.06

$ 26.27

$4,283.23

Lead Customer Service Agent - Airports

$1,085.80

$ 28.95

$4,721.26

Customer Service Agent - Airports 2

$1,019.45

$ 27.19

$4,432.78

Customer Service Agent - Airports 1

$ 979.85

$ 26.13

$4,260.56

Lead Customer Service Agent - Weight & Balance

$1,085.80

$ 28.95

$4,721.26

Customer Service Agent - Weight & Balance 2

$1,019.45

$ 27.19

$4,432.78

Customer Service Agent - Weight & Balance 1

$ 979.86

$ 26.13

$4,260.61

Lead Customer Service Agent - Cargo

$1,059.57

$ 28.26

$4,607.22

Lead Customer Service Agent - Baggage

$1,059.57

$ 28.26

$4,607.22

Lead Customer Service Agent

$1,059.57

$ 28.26

$4,607.22

Central Baggage Performance Agent

$1,014.37

$ 27.05

$4,410.66

Central Baggage Tracing Agent

$1,004.43

$ 26.78

$4,367.45

Customer Service Agent 2

$ 994.48

$ 26.52

$4,324.19

Customer Service Agent 1

$ 930.99

$ 24.83

$4,048.12

Customer Service Agent - Part Time

N/A

$ 16.97

N/A

Lead Station Attendant 2

$ 977.13

$ 26.06

$4,248.74

Lead Station Attendant 1

$ 952.22

$ 25.39

$4,140.46

Station Attendant 9 (Full-time)

$ 887.94

$ 23.68

$3,860.93

Station Attendant 8 (Full-time)

$ 809.56

$ 21.59

$3,520.11

Station Attendant 7 (Full-time)

$ 731.69

$ 19.51

$3,181.53

Station Attendant 6 (Full-time)

$ 653.37

$ 17.42

$2,840.99

Station Attendant 5 (Full-time)

$ 575.10

$ 15.34

$2,500.66

Station Attendant 4 (Full-time)

$ 526.72

$ 14.05

$2,290.30

Station Attendant 3 (Full-time)

$ 477.20

$ 12.73

$2,074.94

Station Attendant 2 (Full-time)

$ 404.89

$ 10.80

$1,760.56

Station Attendant 1 (Full-time)

$ 340.96

$ 9.09

$1,482.58

[Guest]

This is the AC scale right from the CA

PERIOD

JULY 1, 2009/MARCH 31, 2011

AIRPORTS & CARGO OPERATIONS

WEEKLY RATE

HOURLY EQUIV.

MONTHLY EQUIV.

1.75%

Lead Cargo Rating Unit Specialist

$1,143.18

$ 30.48

$4,970.78

Cargo Rating Unit Specialist 3

$1,095.10

$ 29.20

$4,761.73

Cargo Rating Unit Specialist 2

$1,063.73

$ 28.37

$4,625.32

Cargo Rating Unit Specialist 1

$ 985.06

$ 26.27

$4,283.23

Lead Customer Service Agent - Airports

$1,085.80

$ 28.95

$4,721.26

Customer Service Agent - Airports 2

$1,019.45

$ 27.19

$4,432.78

Customer Service Agent - Airports 1

$ 979.85

$ 26.13

$4,260.56

Lead Customer Service Agent - Weight & Balance

$1,085.80

$ 28.95

$4,721.26

Customer Service Agent - Weight & Balance 2

$1,019.45

$ 27.19

$4,432.78

Customer Service Agent - Weight & Balance 1

$ 979.86

$ 26.13

$4,260.61

Lead Customer Service Agent - Cargo

$1,059.57

$ 28.26

$4,607.22

Lead Customer Service Agent - Baggage

$1,059.57

$ 28.26

$4,607.22

Lead Customer Service Agent

$1,059.57

$ 28.26

$4,607.22

Central Baggage Performance Agent

$1,014.37

$ 27.05

$4,410.66

Central Baggage Tracing Agent

$1,004.43

$ 26.78

$4,367.45

Customer Service Agent 2

$ 994.48

$ 26.52

$4,324.19

Customer Service Agent 1

$ 930.99

$ 24.83

$4,048.12

Customer Service Agent - Part Time

N/A

$ 16.97

N/A

Lead Station Attendant 2

$ 977.13

$ 26.06

$4,248.74

Lead Station Attendant 1

$ 952.22

$ 25.39

$4,140.46

Station Attendant 9 (Full-time)

$ 887.94

$ 23.68

$3,860.93

Station Attendant 8 (Full-time)

$ 809.56

$ 21.59

$3,520.11

Station Attendant 7 (Full-time)

$ 731.69

$ 19.51

$3,181.53

Station Attendant 6 (Full-time)

$ 653.37

$ 17.42

$2,840.99

Station Attendant 5 (Full-time)

$ 575.10

$ 15.34

$2,500.66

Station Attendant 4 (Full-time)

$ 526.72

$ 14.05

$2,290.30

Station Attendant 3 (Full-time)

$ 477.20

$ 12.73

$2,074.94

Station Attendant 2 (Full-time)

$ 404.89

$ 10.80

$1,760.56

Station Attendant 1 (Full-time)

$ 340.96

$ 9.09

$1,482.58

Now this link is to the IAM cetral region website where it holds a number of CA's for other airlines and the SA's including wages

http://www.iamaw2413.org/main.htm

I will scan First Air who pays $17 top wage for their SA's and if some one has handlex please post it

[boestar]

LOL.... I started at AC as a Station attendant right out of High school in the late 80s. Back then my starting wage was $9.10. Today it is $9.09. It lost one cent in 20 odd years.....Talk about stagnant.

A lead Station Attendant gets more that some of our Mechanics. thats just wrong.