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mrlupin

A Map of Organized Climate Change Denial

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Man made? Natural?

I don't know which but this is January in Toronto for goodness sakes and somethings definitely wonky.

The ice rink still hasn't frozen enough for the kids to skate on it.

I've only missed 3 or 4 days of biking since the start of December and I Just got back from a nice ride about an hr ago along the lake. The trails were full.. Due to the lack of shore ice there were even surfers in Lake Ontario for Goodness sakes. In January?!?

There's barely a hint of snow on the ground in the shaded spots and after the 30K on the trails today I probably hit a twenty ft stretch where ice was a concern.

The money I just spent on new Winter tires (new car) sure hasn't been of any value yet.

And I think I'm actually going out into the yard to get a head start on spring cleaning.

In January - sheesh!

The deicing folks at YYZ must be bored to death.

post-2422-0-05914000-1325882305_thumb.jp

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“And I think I'm actually going out into the yard to get a head start on spring cleaning.”

That idea’s actually on my mind as well?

I too am tired of all the debate on the science of climate change. Sure, there are natural forces at work through which climate evolves, but to deny the human collective isn’t providing an influence, is just pure nuts.

Seven billion and counting and all our politicians can do is promote the continuation of the ‘growth’ model?

Edited by DEFCON

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What's that old saying about letting sleeping dogs lie? Yes it's been mild so far but it isn't over yet!

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Paybacks are hell. The storm is comming just wait.

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Waiting for the SandMan is a bit$h. But don't worry, T.O., you'll get your 2 inches of snow and a military infusion to help you navigate through the cruel snow-flakes. Speaking of flakes, how's your mayor? :Grin-Nod:

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Waiting for the SandMan is a bit$h. But don't worry, T.O., you'll get your 2 inches of snow and a military infusion to help you navigate through the cruel snow-flakes. Speaking of flakes, how's your mayor? :Grin-Nod:

Wow - Mid march and I'm putting the air conditioning on. I'm even contemplating sunscreen ( a first) and the other day one of our friends asked if I was opening the pool soon. ( I was actually considering it). The snow blower hasn't been used once this past winter. The tulips are pushing up. and on the weekend I gotto go dismantle some skating rinks we put up that were liquid for most of the winter.

Man am I glad I didn't buy new skis this winter. Must be some great deals out there though.

PS - the mayor's fine. Losing weight I hear. Sticking to his guns on wanting subways instead of LRT. I expect they'll still be debating it 20 yrs from now.

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I'm sitting here in southern Ontario today where they're expecting it to be 85 again...and it's only mid-March? 'Global climate change' anyone?.

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PS - the mayor's fine. Losing weight I hear. Sticking to his guns on wanting subways instead of LRT. I expect they'll still be debating it 20 yrs from now.

Actually, he's back up to his pre-diet weight. The stress of losing the subway battle in council is causing him to once again load up on the Haagen Dazs and Doritos at bedtime. The harsh reality he has yet to accept is that the Mayor can bleat and blather all he wants about his agenda, but at the end of the day he has no more power during a vote than any other councillor.

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Can someone please look up the difference between 'climate' and 'weather'? Thanks.

I had the pleasure only yesterday to help out with a science experiment in my daughter's class(grade 2). With about 5 kids per group, and only one group at a time, they were shown about 20 small objects(eraser, paperclip, styrofoam, cork, sponge, piece of cloth, short length of string, piece of wax crayon, etc) and were told to make a prediction whether each object would float in water or sink. Each child had their own chart to keep track of their predictions, and also to chart what actually happened when each object was dropped in a bucket of water.

I found their behaviours during the experiment the most fascinating. Whenever they were proven wrong when the observed object did the opposite of their prediction, most were visibly upset and were quick to voice their displeasure. Some wanted to change their prediction so as to make it align with the observed effect. At this point, I explained to them that science isn't about being right, it's about being honest. A good scientist admits they made the wrong assumption and that the prediction isn't what's important. A good scientist reports the true findings of their experiment, regardless of their prediction or of the outcome or the experiment.

When they were right about their findings, there was big cheers and congratulating each other on being 'right'. I also observed that the loudest and/or A-type child in the group would announce their prediction with 100% confidence, and it affected the other children's predictions as well. I observed some kids would wait until A-Type made their announcement, then use the same answer, others even changed their answer to what A-Type announced. Fascinating.

I went through 5 groups of kids, and it was a real eye opener how each group, minus maybe 1 individual per group behaved in this way. I reminded each group several times throughout the experiment that being right was not important, and that's not what science is about... as a group I don't think they ever understood what I was getting at.

I thought I'd share this little learned wisdom I picked up from a class of 8 year olds. Science should not be about ego, emotion, or the mighty dollar. Science research should not be influenced by these things yet I highly doubt something as controversial as man made climate change can keep these undermining factors out. When I understand the science is done properly, ie, peer reviewed, and experimented on by other scientists to the same outcome, THEN I have a lot more faith in the science.

IE: anyone following the Faster than Light Neutrino experiment that threatened to turn the physics world upside down? Some might jump to the conclusion that bad science played a part. I submit that the opposite happened. The scientists that made the announcement went public with their findings because they did NOT believe the results they got, and they wanted other scientists to examine their experiment to find what they missed. Turns out it was a loose wire in one of the computers which threw off their calculations. The world can relax, Einstein hasn't been proven wrong, yet... ;)

Cheers all, shiny sides up!

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"What Weather Means

Weather is basically the way the atmosphere is behaving, mainly with respect to its effects upon life and human activities. The difference between weather and climate is that weather consists of the short-term (minutes to months) changes in the atmosphere. Most people think of weather in terms of temperature, humidity, precipitation, cloudiness, brightness, visibility, wind, and atmospheric pressure, as in high and low pressure.

In most places, weather can change from minute-to-minute, hour-to-hour, day-to-day, and season-to-season. Climate, however, is the average of weather over time and space. An easy way to remember the difference is that climate is what you expect, like a very hot summer, and weather is what you get, like a hot day with pop-up thunderstorms. "

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/noaa-n/climate/climate_weather.html

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it was a real eye opener how each group, minus maybe 1 individual per group behaved in this way. I reminded each group several times throughout the experiment that being right was not important, and that's not what science is about... as a group I don't think they ever understood what I was getting at.

Are you talking about school kids or politicians?

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Can someone please look up the difference between 'climate' and 'weather'? Thanks.

I had the pleasure only yesterday to help out with a science experiment in my daughter's class(grade 2). With about 5 kids per group, and only one group at a time, they were shown about 20 small objects(eraser, paperclip, styrofoam, cork, sponge, piece of cloth, short length of string, piece of wax crayon, etc) and were told to make a prediction whether each object would float in water or sink. Each child had their own chart to keep track of their predictions, and also to chart what actually happened when each object was dropped in a bucket of water.

I found their behaviours during the experiment the most fascinating. Whenever they were proven wrong when the observed object did the opposite of their prediction, most were visibly upset and were quick to voice their displeasure. Some wanted to change their prediction so as to make it align with the observed effect. At this point, I explained to them that science isn't about being right, it's about being honest. A good scientist admits they made the wrong assumption and that the prediction isn't what's important. A good scientist reports the true findings of their experiment, regardless of their prediction or of the outcome or the experiment.

When they were right about their findings, there was big cheers and congratulating each other on being 'right'. I also observed that the loudest and/or A-type child in the group would announce their prediction with 100% confidence, and it affected the other children's predictions as well. I observed some kids would wait until A-Type made their announcement, then use the same answer, others even changed their answer to what A-Type announced. Fascinating.

I went through 5 groups of kids, and it was a real eye opener how each group, minus maybe 1 individual per group behaved in this way. I reminded each group several times throughout the experiment that being right was not important, and that's not what science is about... as a group I don't think they ever understood what I was getting at.

I thought I'd share this little learned wisdom I picked up from a class of 8 year olds. Science should not be about ego, emotion, or the mighty dollar. Science research should not be influenced by these things yet I highly doubt something as controversial as man made climate change can keep these undermining factors out. When I understand the science is done properly, ie, peer reviewed, and experimented on by other scientists to the same outcome, THEN I have a lot more faith in the science.

IE: anyone following the Faster than Light Neutrino experiment that threatened to turn the physics world upside down? Some might jump to the conclusion that bad science played a part. I submit that the opposite happened. The scientists that made the announcement went public with their findings because they did NOT believe the results they got, and they wanted other scientists to examine their experiment to find what they missed. Turns out it was a loose wire in one of the computers which threw off their calculations. The world can relax, Einstein hasn't been proven wrong, yet... ;)

Cheers all, shiny sides up!

Great story Miles. Spot on on all counts.

I am getting a kick out of watching television "weather men" (& women) now referring to themselves as "climatologists" rather than the traditional "meteorologist".

Fer gawd's sake!

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In actual fact most are neither. Most are just pretty faces (male or female) reading material provided to them. :biggrin1:

Not all.

There is one on Global Edmonton that just makes stuff up.

The prize Nicholism was "Let's look at the satelitte photo taken from 10 thousand feet in the air".

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Nobody ever talks about over population

Why is that

Do you think that adding billions of people is not gonna stress this planet

Big business wants more people,and what big business want they get,especially governments

Ours is a real good example of big business running the show

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LngTimerV this is my first post to this great site. I read, research and learn. All the people on this planet will fit in the province of Ontario with 1000 square feet around them. So say hi to your neighbour. The population growth on this planet is slowing and "should" ( yes I know I said should ) stop growing around 2050. There is only one reason for the slight warming and thats the sun. Correct me if I'm wrong, since 1997 the planet has cooled. Everyone needs to stop spreading fears, keep asking questions and use common sense.

Edited by cb737

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.... I read, research and learn. All the people on this planet will fit in the province of Ontario with 1000 square feet around them. So say hi to your neighbour. The population growth on this planet is slowing and "should" ( yes I know I said should ) stop growing around 2050. There is only one reason for the slit warming and thats the sun. Correct me if I'm wrong, since 1997 the planet has cooled. Everyone needs to stop spreading fears, keep asking questions and use common sense.

Far be it for me to say that you're wrong, and some will argue with the data and methodology, but just to suggest that your statement about temperature trends since 1997 is not agreed science (http://data.giss.nas...temp/graphs_v3/)....

Fig.C.gif

Welcome, '37 - Keep reading & learning, but perhaps a shade more skepticism could be in order about the "science" that's published in the popular press (& yes, the drivel flows both ways :Furious: ). Common sense would be great if good sense was a little more common ;)

BTW, not sure of your point about all the folks in the world occupying Ontario. I doubt that 10x10 metres of land mass would support a human being for very long ....

Cheers, IFG :b:

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YES! A contest! 7 billion human beings in Ontario.

Physical area of Ontario is about 1,000,000 km/sq. ( www.ubcpress.ca/books/pdf/chapters/ecology/chapter2.pdf );

1 square kilometer = 10 763 910.4 square feet ( http://www.metric-conversions.org/area/square-kilometers-to-square-feet.htm );

x 1,000,000 = 10,763,910,400,000.0 square feet or 10 trillion, 763 billion, 910 million, 400 thousand square kilometers;

Divided by 7 billion = (the easy way - do it in two parts: 10,763,910,400,000 divided by 1,000,000,000 = 10,763 THEN 10,763 divided by 7 = 1,537.6) or 50% more land than suggested by our Newest Poster!

Not a bad starting average considering the accuracy of some of the crap we've all posted here!!!

Welcome, cb737 :tu:

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My point about the worlds population is to keep things in perspective and how we could fit everyone on this planet into Ontario with still lots of room around us. I want people to stop spreading fears. The population should stop growing as more people move into middle class. As for the temperature graphs, the slight warming we have seen in the past is from the sun. Not sure of the solution for that one. From what I read the activity of the sun has slowed. Lastly the next big fear mongering is water. I don't now were to start on this one. We are drinking the same water that the dinosaurs drank, that was brought here by astroids. As a member of this aviation community that burns fuel and a byproduct of fuel is water, burn baby burn.

Keep things in perspective.

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Actually cb737, the sun follows an eleven year cycle. We are close to the peak of this cycle right now. This site explains it fairly well:

http://science.nasa....3/17jan_solcon/

As far as total global climate change goes, there are many influences including geo-thermal. There is another thread here that is over 40 pages long with a LOT of discussion on the topic. I'll see if I can find it and post the link. Here it is: http://theairlinewebsite.com/index.php/topic/388151-climate-change-consensus/

Once again, Welcome!

Edited by Moon The Loon

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.... 50% more land than suggested by our Newest Poster! Not a bad starting average considering the accuracy of some of the crap we've all posted here!!!

Well, Moon', actually a little less if you exclude the lake water ;) (which makes his calulations a bit more accurate)

My point about the worlds population is to keep things in perspective and how we could fit everyone on this planet into Ontario with still lots of room around us. I want people to stop spreading fears. The population should stop growing as more people move into middle class. As for the temperature graphs, the slight warming we have seen in the past is from the sun. Not sure of the solution for that one. From what I read the activity of the sun has slowed. Lastly the next big fear mongering is water. I don't now were to start on this one. We are drinking the same water that the dinosaurs drank, that was brought here by astroids. As a member of this aviation community that burns fuel and a byproduct of fuel is water, burn baby burn. Keep things in perspective.

Hello again, '37 - I actually thought you might be joking (and maybe you were and still are, I can't tell). What "perspective" is provided by that meaningless calculation? The "slight warming" that you concede in your last post is denied altogether in your first one. Aligning the alleged water "byproduct" of burning fossil fuels to the "fear" of insufficient drinking water (I think?) is certainly a different perspective to view that question.

... or maybe just a funny one?

Cheers, IFG :b:

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Well, Moon', actually a little less if you exclude the lake water ;) (which makes his calulations a bit more accurate)

:b:

True, but it wouldn't take long for those on dry land to suck up the fresh water!

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