Kip Powick Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Yes, the MEC approved the TA but did not recommend that the pilots accept it when they sent it out.Normally the head of a Union will indicate why they think it is a good deal...or not....and send that recommendation out with all the info.The programmed "road-shows" may cast more light on the details but it would appear that the MEC wants no part of suggesting it be accepted or not.Further....did the entire MEC approve the TA or was there dissension within the MEC and majority ruled and that's why it went to the members without their recommendation??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 The MEC could not agree on this T/A. I have yet to read one positive opinion on any of the forums. I think (make that I hope) this T/A is screaming; "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday."All the way to the smoking crater. It is a big "NOT EVEN CLOSE" from this lone voter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Seems obvious to me these are just opening moves of a carefully played chess game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Exactly Mitch.. How many CA are agreed to on the first go around. This is the company and the MEC "feeling out" the membership. The response of the membership will shape future discussions (or should anyhow). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIP Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Exactly Mitch.. How many CA are agreed to on the first go around. This is the company and the MEC "feeling out" the membership. The response of the membership will shape future discussions (or should anyhow).This one won't be accepted as it stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex 9A Guy Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Exactly Mitch.. How many CA are agreed to on the first go around. This is the company and the MEC "feeling out" the membership. The response of the membership will shape future discussions (or should anyhow).From my experience both as a MEC Chair and member of a negotiating team in a previous life your statement could not be farther from the truth. The "feeling out should have been accomplished during the WACON surveys and the negotiation process. If this proposal is the best the negotiating team thinks they can get without having a bigger stick to carry then they are obligated to declare an impasse and take a strike vote. Then they know if they truly have the support of the pilot group.From what has been released to the public (I am not an AC pilot) it seems the negotiating team have presented this to the MEC with a recommendation of acceptance, why else would the MEC put it forward to the membership as a tentative agreement. This is an implied acceptance and approval otherwise they should have told the negotiating team that it was unacceptable and to return to the table with the company.This one won't be accepted as it stands.In that case according to the protocol that was in effect at CALPA (ACPA may or my not have kept this protocol) when I was involved it the TA is rejected by the membership then the negotiating team (who recommended acceptance) should resign and be replaced as the membership by virtue of the vote does not have confidence in their judgement as negotiators. The vote becomes a de facto vote of (non) confidence. This obviously will make for a more drawn out process as the new team will have to be assembled, briefed, reevaluate the WACON results, compare to the TA, reschedule meeting with the company and start again. But IMHO this is a better solution than a crappy 4-5 year deal that everyone id PO'd about.Good luck to all involved from one who has been there and done that albeit with a smaller company but with an equally aggressive management stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 How many times have we been through contract negots?????The first one is a stab in the dark for both parties to feel it out. should it have been accepted as as a TA? Probably not. In My experience when the membership is asked what they want to fight for ther responses are few and always the same... More Money, Better pension, More time off. It is not until the negotiationsbegin and the first TA sent to the members that the voices begin to speak up. the silent Majority begins to become more vocal because they are afraid they will get screwed. If they had have been vocal from the outset there woule be more info for the MEC to work with. This will go through several rounds before anything happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 A number of copies were left in our maintenance office. I have looked it over and not being a pilot I am not sure what a number of the items mean. Pilot acronyms! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 A number of copies were left in our maintenance office. I have looked it over and not being a pilot I am not sure what a number of the items mean. Pilot acronyms!Robert....if you had access to the Private AC PILOT and the old Private CP PILOT forum you would find out you are not alone !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Robert....if you had access to the Private AC PILOT and the old Private CP PILOT forum you would find out you are not alone !!! Not being a Pilot, the acronyms are difficult to figure out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Not being a Pilot, the acronyms are difficult to figure out.Yes, true, they can be confusing but what is throwing a lot of pilots is the "language" which in many cases seems to beg for clarity. I would imagine roadshows will help but the mood for acceptance does not seem to be there.......yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Lets not kid ourselves people.... CR is a master. With the government at his side (Doesn't matter who wins the election if it gets that far) he will get what he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 06L06R Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Well ACA clearly has lots of money to give everyone. The CEO almost doubled his salary last year. So I am sure that they won't be putting the screws to it's workers.Pay Day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydee Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I wonder which farm they gave away this time? Nothing like doing the same thing time after time and expecting different results.You heard it here first. Acpa Implodes You just had to see this coming. It didn't take a brain surgeon to see the writing on the wall. Hopefully, the good thing coming out of all this might finally be a united membership with the guns pointed outwards for a change. I've heard one particular name bantered around as a replacement leader and if it's true, Hallelujah !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 so what's the alternative for the AC boys if ACPA implodes? There's at least 4 different groups within the pilot group at each other's throats already, and how are they going to agree on common representation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Air Line Pilots Association http://www.alpa.org/Bring it on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 like I said.... perfect example! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydee Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 http://acpilot.blogspot.com/2010/10/pilot-negotiation-saga-continuesnow-we.htmlIf it wasn't so true it'd be funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I hope some day it leaks out who made those cartoons, so I can shake their hand. Extremely clever and sadly deadly accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I hope some day it leaks out who made those cartoons, so I can shake their hand. Extremely clever and sadly deadly accurate.ex CP pilot...still flying with AC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leading Edge Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 ALPA, what a joke, have a look at ALPA's track record in the US = KISS YOUR PENSION GOODBYE.ALPA Canada = do you want to merge at DATE OF HIRE?? Yeah lets open that can of worms again.ACPA is doing what ACPA was supposed to do before it lost its way = Listen to the MEMBERSHIP.Had we been ALPA the MEC would have forced this on you, remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I would say that is a bit of a stretch, Leading Edge. IF ACPA (read MEC) were truly listening to "the membership" the T/A would be in the garbage can. What is shaking out is not a function of ACPA listening. It is a result of their hand (very reluctantly) being held to the fire.ALPA is far from perfect, but it is light years ahead of ACPA. What ACPA really needs is Adult Supervision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 IF ACPA (read MEC) were truly listening to "the membership" the T/A would be in the garbage can. What is shaking out is not a function of ACPA listening. This entire boondoggle could have been eliminated if a democratic vote on the TA was held....assume a "NO" vote. NC has to go back and start over, perhaps after further consultation with the members and the MEC.What has been accomplished by letting a few radicals commence an attempt at a coup and force out all, (LEC and MEC etc), members who "volunteered to be elected".???Should the coup succeed........you are starting over at less than zero... (all that wasted time and effort by elected volunteers)The inmates are running the asylum and management is sitting back and laughing it's a$$ off.Grassroots union??..I don't think so...more like "mob mentality"......IMO very, very sad.Good luck.....hopefully the members don't really get burned at their second attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 As well, the rest of the unions are anxiously watching to see what happens to the pilot group, they know that's the way their negots will go.I know this is just a fantasy, however...This would be a great opportunity, at this conjuncture, for all the unions to unite and negotiate as one for the good of the AC employees. We've all given over the last 10 years, only to see Billions taken out of the company for the enjoyment of the very few. There is strength in numbers, and with Aveos, as well as the proposed LCC, it is being demonstrated quite effectively that the policy of divide and conquer is effective.Just this once, the Unions need to put aside their petty differences and negotiate together to obtain the best deal.As stated above, the company is just sitting back and laughing it's a$$ off at the results.Just MHO...Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.