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AC/ ACPA Tentative Agreement


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I wonder which farm they gave away this time? :Scratch-Head:

Nothing like doing the same thing time after time and expecting different results. They were the first to sign during

bankruptcy, got hosed in the process and IMO will never recover from that disaster.

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I'm guessing that no one who knows anything is saying anything. Why would they? If there was an enhancement, for example, to pass privileges for commuting and that fact was disclosed then another bargaining unit potentially might insist on the same privilege thereby rendering the "concession" of less value.

After all....dead-head priority was negotiated and allowed to lie fallow for something like 14 months.

Periodically, there appear remarks about a "race to the bottom"; how one employee group will seek an advantage over another and in the process, lower the bar for the employer.

Confronting the threat of the loss of flying to Regionals, AC pilots obtained a "no-jets" enhanced LOU 17 and then created a "B" scale wage plan in order to obtain the Regional jet. They got everyone back to work but they would have been called back regardless.

And that "B" scale lowered the bar and where are the RJ's now?

If it wasn't all so sad--it would be funny.

If it's "all for one"---stop there---and let me be "the one".

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I wonder which farm they gave away this time? :Scratch-Head:

I'd be surprised if they gave away anything at all, or at least anything that matters. There'll have been some give and take, but in the current climate ACPA's negotiators wouldn't have agreed to the TA if it was concessionary, which should bode well for everyone else.

In any case, it's only a TA. If your bargaining unit doesn't like it, they won't ratify.

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So, during bargaining, a particular group, in this case the pilots, can dictate the Company's pass privilege policy?

Enjoy your commute - those of you from mainline who commute to work on Jazz!

You do know that all the seats on your airplane are paid for, and belong, to Air Canada right? As for dictating the pass policy; the company makes adjustments to this policy from time to time - seems like it's been overdue and a change really should have been made when the ownership of Jazz changed, no?

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You do know that all the seats on your airplane are paid for, and belong, to Air Canada right? As for dictating the pass policy; the company makes adjustments to this policy from time to time - seems like it's been overdue and a change really should have been made when the ownership of Jazz changed, no?

Seeker - Are you saying then, that AC Employees will continue to enjoy the same boarding priority when travelling on Jazz - because their airline "owns" all of the seats on Jazz. But the Jazz employees will all have C3 priority when travelling on mainline? If so, I don't think that's going to "fly" so well with the Jazz folks.

Also, I have no issue with a Company tweaking or changing their privilege policies whenever they choose.

However, what was implied above is that a bargaining unit had somehow included the pass travel privileges and boarding priorities of others as part of their Collective Agreement. That's what I was wondering about: How a bargaining unit could possibly dictate policy on Company privileges, especially the privileges of other groups. This is all probably moot because I highly doubt that is what has occurred.

I'm quite aware of the push for changes to the policy and don't necessarily disagree - but if there's a change soon to be announced - I bet it is more coincidental to the TA timing and less to do with bargaining.

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That's what I was wondering about: How a bargaining unit could possibly dictate policy on Company privileges, especially the privileges of other groups. This is all probably moot because I highly doubt that is what has occurred.

ACPA has done this before. They negotiated higher priority for deadheading a few years back, so the flight attendant group that used to be "equal" when deadheading is now second class. Wouldn't surprise me if ACPA tries the same for regular passes, commuters, other airlines' passes, whatever suits them.

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Well, this is amusing. I'd expect there are more weighty issues, and gains, for ACPA than anything to do with passes.

Then Dagger, you're forgetting the three "p's"...pay, passes and pension. Travel privileges are right up there. Any idea of how many of Air Canada's pilots "commute" to work?

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First of all, you are all boxing at shadows. There is no official word about what's in or out of the contract or even if passes were part of it, which I personally doubt.

Please at least wait until the official word is out before you all start getting defensive (both sides).

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Moeman...I am not going to get into a big debate as to what is equal and what is not, however the deadheading issue that we gained a few years ago was in exchange for further concessions from the pilot group.

Things are not always equal...there are some things that ACPA has been able to negotiate and there are some things that CUPE has been able to negotiate. It has nothing to do with ACPA viewing Flight Attendants as second class citizens. I am curious. Does it bother you that when pilots book off sick we only get 90% of our pay, F/A's get 100%? Does it bother you that F/A expenses are higher for the exact same layover? I am sure that it doesn't bother you at all. The reality is the reason that F/A's have these is because CUPE negotiated these items. Good for you guys. Don't begrudge ACPA for being able to negotiate a small "benefit". Believe me...it was a small victory in comparison to the concessions.

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ACPA has done this before. They negotiated higher priority for deadheading a few years back, so the flight attendant group that used to be "equal" when deadheading is now second class. Wouldn't surprise me if ACPA tries the same for regular passes, commuters, other airlines' passes, whatever suits them.

There is nothing "equal" about the two groups there Moe. Licensing and other things come to mind in that department. That is a misconception from your side I am afraid.

That is why the mee-too should go to its grave. You want something in your agreement, then negotiate it.

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There is nothing "equal" about the two groups there Moe. Licensing and other things come to mind in that department. That is a misconception from your side I am afraid.

There you go folks. If you believe that your passes will never become second class passes with ACPA's members going ahead of you on each and every flight, you're sadly mistaken. They are clearly superior to all of us non-licensed folks and as such deserve a higher priority than the rest of us :cool: .

Ahh, who knows? Maybe it's all smoke and mirrors, but given the fact that ACPA had no qualms about negotiating themselves a higher priority when it comes to deadheading, I wouldn't put it past them to demand higher priority for their commuters and then who knows what the next step would be.

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There you go folks. If you believe that your passes will never become second class passes with ACPA's members going ahead of you on each and every flight, you're sadly mistaken. They are clearly superior to all of us non-licensed folks and as such deserve a higher priority than the rest of us :cool: .

Ahh, who knows? Maybe it's all smoke and mirrors, but given the fact that ACPA had no qualms about negotiating themselves a higher priority when it comes to deadheading, I wouldn't put it past them to demand higher priority for their commuters and then who knows what the next step would be.

Moe Man why dont you answer my question? What about the "inequalities" that I mentioned? Oh yeah, I know why. You only see what you want to see!!!

***Edited by Mod. Please refer to our posting guidelines***

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Moe Man why dont you answer my question? What about the "inequalities" that I mentioned? Oh yeah, I know why. You only see what you want to see!!!

I didn't reply because you're talking apples and oranges. I agree that we all negotiate things that can affect each other in different ways and that's fine. You get 90% pay, well that's something you guys gave away and that's fine with me. I'm sure you got something else in return. Your reserve rules are much better than ours, and I'm fine with that because our contracts are different. You guys can change your deadheads making it easier for commuters, we can't. Well if CUPE wants to fix that, they will and that's fine too. I suspect that your per-diems are less at times because you ALWAYS get fed whereas we don't. If that's not the case, and your union feels that you should be paid more, well more power to you. We negotiated buyouts during CCAA instead of taking larger pay cuts and you guys just kept giving away salary instead of getting creative. Different strokes, I guess. But what I take issue with is if your union said you guys must get X dollars more than us, or you must get lobster if we get salmon, or you must get higher priority passes for commuters than anybody else, or anything along those lines. You're not negotiating a "benefit" for your group that has no effect on anybody else, you're actually negotiating a lowering of benefits for every other group. That's just wrong, IMO.

Edited by moeman
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This issue always seems to degenerate into a pissing match over who’s more important to and therefore deserves…

What kind of scale considers the six month seniority ‘cruiser’ as more important to the success of the Company than perhaps a 25 year ‘inflight service director’?

I do agree with some forms of ‘privilege’ however. As it pertains to this issue; a Captain should be entitled to ‘super seniority’ when it comes to anything DH, and guaranteed the comfy seat. Everyone else in the crew should be ‘comfy’ on a space permitting basis only.

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Someone indicate that Jazz has signed the pass agreement till 2020 the day before Thomas Cook was announced. Anyone know? I know we should wait till the TA is out but interesting discussion. I'm surprised the pass agreement has lasted this long.

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