Vaccine shortages

[better4me]

....Others (Policemen, Firemen and other very public contact workers and their families) were not given any priority.

In Alberta, workers in Hospitals have been quietly given the opportunity for H1N1 shot. Note that Healthcare workers are not designated as priority because that would bring all sorts of people out of the wood work (including my wife who has nurse licence, but does not work front line healthcare).

Also, most provinces have been quietly immunizing their homeless populations. In Calgary, both the drop in center and Mustard Seed have run clinics only for their clients.

[better4me]

Security issues at the line?? Your scenario assumes that all of the Flames and their families would have gonr to the same clinic at the same time.

Yes, the initial team plan was for Friday practice to have been cancelled and the team loaded up onto a bus early in the AM, stand in line and get got their flu shots.

Concerns were raised by Flames management about the security and line management concerns.

Also note that in Alberta line management was the biggest concern at the clinics. Simply put AHS had a great plan to immunize thousands of Albertans per day (400,000 in the first 5 days of operation), however they did not have a plan to deal with a line up of three to six thousand people. AHS also did not have a pla to deal with a single line holder representing an entire family or all other sorts of place holding scenarios.

The new AHS plan is to hand out wrist bands and provide estimated return times for each person in the order the patient presents themselves at the clinc. There will only be a certain number of wrist bands per day and each person must show up inorder to receive one. This is similar to selling tickets to South American soccer/football match.

In short the line and people management issues are more of an issue for AHS than trying to get 15,000 people immunized per day.

[Fido]

Still waiting for Fido to explain how there was no cost to health system.

Sorry, I thought that even you could have figured that one out by now!

The vaccine comes from the Feds for as many people in the province as the province orders. (ie free to the province)

The cost of the vaccine therefore is the same as if the guys stood in a regular line.

The Flames medical staff administered the vaccine to the players (ie free to the province).

The cost of providing a hall to inoculate the Flames and the cost of the medical staff to give them their shots is less than if they stood in line.

Got it now?

Where do you see a cost to Alberta Health because these people got their shots?

[chockalicious]

Well...you initially said that there was no cost to the health system. Unless the vaccine was magically created and transported free of charge from the vaccine fairy then there was a cost to the health system.

Saying it is "free" to the province is not accurate.

My issue is with the fact that because of a sense of entiltlement or someone acting like a fanboy loser, the Flames were able to skip the que in getting the vaccine.

[better4me]

My issue is with the fact that because of a sense of entiltlement or someone acting like a fanboy loser, the Flames were able to skip the que in getting the vaccine.

There was no sense of entitlement for the Flames, only a sense of entitlement portrayed in the media.

By your standards, the downtown homeless people have also skipped the queue. Same goes for the workers at Alberta hospitals that are quietly skipping the queue and getting vaccinated at work.

By the way, tell me what queue did the flames skip? Is this just that you would rather have seen Iggy etal in line at Brentwood or Avenida?

[better4me]

They have an even bigger PR problem on their hands now because their farm team, the Abbotsford Heat, received their H1N1 vaccines last night here in BC. Nothing has been said about where the vaccine came from.

In Abbotsford, Coquitlam and a some other BC cities local doctor's offices can request to be added onto the list of places handing out H1N1. However most Doctors have not elected to hand out the vaccine because they do not want waiting areas inundated. at the Abbotsford Heat, the doctor ordered a single supply of vaccine and administered it to his patients he deemed as high risk.

This situation highlights a problem that all provinces are facing. Trying to delineate the population into various risk groups will end up costing more money than just having everyone line up and rollup a sleave.

[inchman]

The vast majority of the "high risk" groups had already been vaccinated when these guys got their shots. I don't see a major problem with them getting the shot before the general population.

It's time that we stopped pandering to the concept in this country that everyone should be treated 100% equal.

Hockey players are surrounded by, and expected to shake hands with, hundreds of fans every day and are also expected to visit groups of high school students and kids in the hospital. In addition to being put on a pedestal (except when they get a bit of special treatment before the whiners) and the heart of millions of dollars in cash flow for their communities, they face a higher risk of contracting or passing on the flu to a huge vector of the population compared to, say, a news reporter sitting at a desk all day or office people who are in contact with just a small circle of people on a regular basis.

Instead of inoculating those who are highest risk of dying from the disease, we should be inoculating those at highest risk of transmitting it. This would have a greater effect in protecting the greater portion of the population and probably protect those at highest risk as well. The concept should be to reduce the spread, not protect specific individuals.

In addition to the obvious health care workers, this would include flight attendants, passenger agents, customs agents, restaurant workers, police, bus drivers, taxi drivers, check-out clerks, clergymen... even pilots should be included as we could easily carry the disease to many locations in just a few days (or bring it from other countries where fewer have been inoculated).

[boestar]

Well said inchman.

Stopping the spread makes more sense than treating the susceptable (sp?)

[chockalicious]

There was no sense of entitlement for the Flames, only a sense of entitlement portrayed in the media.

By your standards, the downtown homeless people have also skipped the queue. Same goes for the workers at Alberta hospitals that are quietly skipping the queue and getting vaccinated at work.

By the way, tell me what queue did the flames skip? Is this just that you would rather have seen Iggy etal in line at Brentwood or Avenida?

No I could not care less about seeing Iggy at Brentwood Mall.

Your arguement also does noty make sense as a bunch of physically strong 20 and 30 somethings and their families are not exactly who I would consider high risk. Workers at hospitals should be skipping the que.

I will assume then that if I can get a bunch of my co-workers together in our cafeteria to get the shot and AHS gives us the vaccine you will have no problem with it.

I am not saying you in particular but it is funny how some are blinded by their fandom in looking at this issue.

[dagger]

Instead of inoculating those who are highest risk of dying from the disease, we should be inoculating those at highest risk of transmitting it. This would have a greater effect in protecting the greater portion of the population and probably protect those at highest risk as well. The concept should be to reduce the spread, not protect specific individuals.

This is not Alberta-specific as I am not in Alberta. But if the goal was maximum coverage ASAP, then the clinics should be offering the seasonal flu shot at the same time. My GP noted yesterday that it has been established that you can get both shots on the same day. If keeping society functionning is the goal, then an absence for seasonal flu is as crippling as an absence for H1N1. Younger people get seasonal flu. They just don't die from it very often.

But right now, there has been almost no publicity about the seasonal flu shot. The seasonal flu outbreak is lagging H1N1, but if Canadians can't get vaccinated fast enough for H1N1, we're going to have people in hospitals for both flus.

In Ontario, family docs have always given the seasonal flu shot - I got my yesterday - but as you can see from the Globe and Mail letters section today, family MDs were effectively discouraged from giving H1N1 shots, so few are. That means I still have to trudge over to a clinic to get my H1N1 if I so choose. I may not. I believe I have some acquired immunity from the 1957-58 flu - although I was a child and have no living family members to verify that. I happen to have a lighter schedule the next few weeks, having finished a month-long project so I can "hide out" at the home office, and if things get hairy up until XMAS, I'll venture out with my M-95 mask - I have a box of them left over from SARS.

But I have done as much for community protection as any Flames, Maple Leaf or Raptor players who queue-jumped.

[Fido]

Well...you initially said that there was no cost to the health system. Unless the vaccine was magically created and transported free of charge from the vaccine fairy then there was a cost to the health system.

Saying it is "free" to the province is not accurate.

My issue is with the fact that because of a sense of entiltlement or someone acting like a fanboy loser, the Flames were able to skip the que in getting the vaccine.

There is no cost of any individual or group of individuals getting 'shot' because this is Government we are talking about.

The Feds have bought 50 million doses for a population of 30 million. The Province has initiated special rooms filled with medical staff to administer the program. Whether or not anyone shows up is not a consideration. The money has been spent.

If you think there is a cost for any individual then ask yourself what 'savings' there might be if you decide not to get vaccinated. Does anyone save the health system the cost of the vaccine or nurses time?

[DEFCON]

Hysteria!

Get in line for those shots or you’ll die.

The slogan should probably be more like:

‘Please Roll Up your Sleeve & Support the Profit Motivations Of The Pharmaceutical Industry’!

[Azure]

What money where?

[Canus Chinookus]

Please....The strain on the system by me standing outside in a lineup is far less than me lying in a bed in the ER.

You have your opinion, I have mine.

"Please yourself" There are so many people panicking thanks to the media sensationalism that they're jamming up doctor's offices everywhere, jamming up the phone lines begging for a diagnosis for anything and everything. It's the flu, not the damn BLACK PLAGUE!!! COME TO YOUR SENSES PEOPLE!

I have a far higher chance of lying in the ER for a car accident than the flu. Get some sense.

Bah, the world'll end in 2012 anyway, so why bother?

[Canus Chinookus]

Hysteria!

Get in line for those shots or you’ll die.

The slogan should probably be more like:

‘Please Roll Up your Sleeve & Support the Profit Motivations Of The Pharmaceutical Industry’!

Actually, just 1 quebec-based Liberal supporting pharmaceutical... awarded 300-some-million for a guaranteed 10 yr contract...

[mo32a]

Sure got everyone's mind off that global warming panic though didn't it.

[Canus Chinookus]

Sure got everyone's mind off that global warming panic though didn't it.

The economy was already doing a fine job of that. Didn't need the additional media terror.

[Check Pilot]

Lemme see here-

"pandemic" - remove the letters "dem" from the word. I think that's the answer.

Thank goodness this latest H1N1 stuff has showed up to, as mo32a said, release the normal public's attention from the great global warming swindle.

Finally as far as global warming chatter stopping and hopefully going away,

"Free at last, free at last. Good God Almighty, I'm free at last!"

[Fido]

Thank goodness this latest H1N1 stuff has showed up to....release the normal public's attention from the great global warming swindle.

My vote for the Internet line of the year (although I am not sure the word normal belongs in there)

[Guest rattler]

At least 4,000 swine flu deaths reported in U.S.

Today Show

Today Show

ATLANTA - Federal health officials now say that 4,000 or more Americans likely have died from swine flu — about four times the estimate they've been using.

The new, higher figure was first reported by The New York Times. It includes deaths caused by complications related to swine flu, including pneumonia and bacterial infections.

Until now, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had conservatively put the U.S. swine flu death count at more than 1,000. Officials said this week they're working on an even more accurate calculation.

The CDC says "many millions" of Americans have caught the pandemic flu virus since it first appeared in April.

Separately, the World Health Organization said Thursday doctors shouldn't wait for lab confirmation before giving anti-viral drugs to pregnant women and other at-risk groups with suspected swine flu.

WHO medical officer Dr. Nikki Shindo said prescribing antivirals early to vulnerable people with clinical symptoms of swine flu can help lower the risk of serious complications.

Shindo said otherwise healthy people should only take drugs such as Tamiflu if their condition worsens rapidly and never as a preventive measure. "The vast majority" of people who catch swine flu will recover without medication or hospital treatment.

Shindo said that Ukraine, Afghanistan and Mongolia have reported their hospitals are being overwhelmed by serious cases.

[DEFCON]

N1H1 isn't the true danger. With the appropriate genetic host Swine Flu can morph and re-emerge as a true threat to man. It's that consideration and not the Swine Flu itself that's concerning authorities.