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I suggest many of these other airports have been wasting their AIF's on glitz.

Spot on.

That may be the most illuminating thing in all of this.

If the airports would put in some proper facilities instead of improving shopping malls and waterfalls, alot of this discussion would be moot.

To re-list:

BC 25 CYOW -- Nations Capital airport is a disgrace with this approach.

CL TDZ lights -- just about anywhere (CYYC, CYEG, are the two obvious examples)

If the airports knew this was coming, the questions needs to be asked.

What have they been doing all this time ?? Where did all the money go ??

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With all due respect to folks I must say I am a bit surprised by some of the responses here ....  Nobody should have been caught off guard here.

Hi, RQ' - I don't know why you aim your admonishments here. Most pilots were not priveliged to attend the, no doubt very very important meetings two and a half years ago, where so much was going to be done etc etc. The folks who were there HAVE collectively so well informed industry participants, that airports in podunks like YOW, YXE, YYC YWG, YHM and several others were scrambling to issue NOTAM within 24 hours of all this stuff (discussed so thoroughly in your presence two and a half years ago) actually coming into effect - yes, they are all idiots, the smart folks were attending meetings somewhere ... two and a half years ago dry.gif.

Indeed some of us were not completely blindsided, due only to the happenstance of local goings-on at the airports we operate in (and very bloody little to the opaque drivel contained in your CBAAC's). Even so ... here in YHM, where implementation of RVR600 take-offs indoctrinated some of us in the fineries of LVOP's at RVR <1200, and the joys of 1-taxiing-at-a-time etc., most of us had not heard one thing about RVOP's at R2600-1200, on which your touted, and quietly re-named CBAAC0256 is entirely silent - echoed, by the way, in the crystalline silence on just what the hell the RVOP might entail if different at all from the LVOP. Right! All absolutely clear.

If you want to blame the masses for their confusion instead of ham-fisted regulation and implementation, I guess that'll be in the eyes of the beholder, we can just agree to disagree.

Cheers, IFG

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BC 25 CYOW -- Nations Capital airport is a disgrace with this approach.

I used to ask for the ILS 32 for most arrivals into YOW but haven't for awhile now since it seems that the skijump at the intersection with 25 has gotten much worse.

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I used to ask for the ILS 32 for most arrivals into YOW but haven't for awhile now since it seems that the skijump at the intersection with 25 has gotten much worse.

Just one of many reasons that the airport at our nation's capital is a pitiful disgrace.

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IFG, touched a nerve did I?

Among the questions posed 21/2 years ago to TC was whether there was an expectation of pilots to be knowledgeable of airport infrastructure levels and requirements. TC at the time suggested that this may indeed have to be the case. Many flight safety representatives took note of that to go back and raise the issue within their own ranks. Given the number of industry representatives that attend these meetings (usually in the 50 - 70 range) I am surprised that this info seems not to have filtered down the ranks as a heads up at least.

Re TP312, have asked TC previously to interpret said document in reference to taxiway lighting when the taxiway joins an instrument runway. The document seems quite clear in that regard. At least one airport operator has chosen to ignore what is contained in that document and when TC was pushed on the issue the answer received was "TC doesn't want to come between the airport and the user". It can be frustrating to the industry when TC continues to pick and choose what they will enforce and when they choose to do it.

Regards

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Hi again, RD' - Well, maybe I can share your surprise cool26.gif.

Re: nerves - not really, but I've always hated a blame-the-troops approach to problems. If I did misread your intent here, I apologize for my ..er.. tartness box.gif. They say that the $#!+ flows downhill, so its often not the folks in the valleys most reponsibile for the sewage there. If you're quizzicality is at least partly directed to your fellow attendees, we're much closer to the same page than I thought. If you wonder about the failure of all those folks to spread the 'heads up', I may have misread your intent, which seemed to me to pass responsibility down to the 'heads' being shat upon wink.gif.

I do stand by a characterization of this implementation as an embarrassing shambles. One tidbit, tho' - re-reading your post (with perhaps a bit more care whistling.gif), I caught that your meetings were Atlantic Region. I had noticed that the airports which did have their runway capabilities published in the last CFS (i.e.prior to the deadline) were predominently Maritime ones. I wonder if that Region has played a much better game here?

Cheers, IFG beer_mug.gif

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So here we are about 48 hours after the new rules come into effect.

Doubt that this was much fun.

CYYC 151545Z 04002KT 3SM BR FEW090 BKN140 BKN230 M07/ RMK FG2AC1AC2CI0 VIS SW-W 1/2

CYYC 151537Z 06003KT 1 1/2SM BR FEW090 BKN160 OVC220 M07/ RMK FG2AC1AC2CI0

CYYC 151526Z 05002KT 1SM -SG BR BKN160 BKN220 M07/ RMK FG2AC2CI0 RVR RWY34 6000FT

CYYC 151519Z 01003KT 1SM BR FEW160 BKN200 M08/ RMK FG2AC1CI0 RVR RWY28 4500FT

CYYC 151513Z 04002KT 1/4SM FZFG BKN200 M08/ RMK FG3CI0 RVR RWY34 2400FT

CYYC 151509Z CCA 05003KT 1/4SM SG/ FZFG OVC220 M08/ RMK FG5CI0

CYYC 151500Z 05003KT 1/8SM FZFG OVC080 M08/M09 A2924 RMK FG7AC0 RIME ON ICE ACCRETION/RVR RWY34 1200FT SLP951

CYYC 151400Z 34002KT 1/8SM FZFG VV001 M08/M08 A2925 RMK FG8 RIME ON ICE ACCRETION/RVR RWY28 1000FT SLP949

CYYC 151300Z 00000KT 1/8SM FZFG VV001 M08/M08 A2927 RMK FG8 RIME ON INDICATOR RVR RWY 34 1100FT SLP953

CYYC 151200Z 01003KT 1/8SM FZFG VV001 M08/M08 A2928 RMK FG8 SNOW COVER/TRACE LOOSE RVR RWY 34 1400FT SLP956

CYYC 151136Z 02005KT 3/8SM FZFG SKC M07/ RMK FG5 RVR RWY 34 1600FT

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Guest rattler

doesn't look like it bothered anyone.

Scheduled Airline Flight Arriving From Gate Status

00:12 US Airways US 244 Phoenix C Arrived at 00:04

00:25 Westjet WS 779 Nassau C Arrived at 00:16

00:40 Air Canada AC 1875 Puerto Vallarta C Arrived at 00:11

00:41 Westjet WS 5003 Cancun C Arrived at 01:41

00:41 Westjet WS 951 Las Vegas C Arrived at 00:30

00:52 Air Canada AC 230 Vancouver A Arrived at 00:59

01:18 Air Canada AC 141 Toronto A Arrived at 02:00

02:30 CanJet Airlines C6 90 Vancouver D Arrived at 01:03

04:00 Air Transat TS 319 Puerto Vallarta / Puerto Vallart C Arrived at 04:07

06:12 Air Canada AC 8583 Saskatoon A Arrived at 06:30

06:28 Air Canada AC 8433 Regina A Arrived at 06:28

06:34 Air Canada AC 8490 Lethbridge A Arrived at 06:34

06:42 Air Canada AC 8131 Lethbridge / Edmonton A Arrived at 09:58

07:05 Air Canada AC 7052 Vancouver A Arrived at 07:05

07:21 Westjet WS 235 Regina D Delayed 07:45

07:24 Westjet WS 547 Saskatoon D Delayed 07:30

07:45 Air Transat TS 459 Ixtapa / Ixtapa Cancelled

08:14 Air Canada AC 8331 Winnipeg A Arrived at 08:59

08:19 Westjet WS 395 Winnipeg D Delayed 08:20

08:30 Air Canada AC 8123 Edmonton A Cancelled

08:39 Westjet WS 2456 Abbotsford D Arrived at 10:27

08:54 Westjet WS 132 Kelowna D Arrived at 10:05

09:10 Westjet WS 567 London ON. D Arrived at 09:20

09:16 Westjet WS 152 Grande Prairie / Edmonton D Arrived at 10:18

09:16 Westjet WS 134 Victoria D Arrived at 10:06

09:23 Air Canada AC 107 Toronto A Arrived at 09:37

09:23 Air Canada AC 202 Vancouver A Arrived at 10:35

09:25 Westjet WS 653 Toronto D Arrived at 09:33

09:32 Westjet WS 551 Hamilton D Arrived at 09:39

09:42 Westjet WS 407 Ottawa D Arrived at 09:48

09:50 Air Canada AC 8137 Edmonton A Arrived at 09:55

09:57 Air Canada AC 8392 Kelowna A Arrived at 11:44

10:02 Air Canada AC 8476 Grande Prairie A Arrived at 11:51

10:04 Westjet WS 229 Halifax D Arrived at 10:30

10:17 Air Canada AC 8103 Houston C Arrived at 09:58

10:18 Westjet WS 544 Vancouver D Arrived at 10:36

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YWG is in for a bit of trouble when the SE winds start to blow. SE winds bring fog and wind and rain, ILS 13, however it is now restricted to RVR2600 due to the RVO restrictions. No ILS on 18, NDB only. Maybe the WAA will finally install one now.

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Don't get your hopes up for YWG, YOW, or any of the Airport Authorities to spend "one red cent" on ground based improvements.

They are all sitting around - holding their breath - for everything to move to "Aircraft Based" navigation...GPS.

We've seen the last of new ILS installations.

More Waterfalls,Fireplaces and huge salarys for the Airport Execs.

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They are all sitting around - holding their breath - for everything to move to "Aircraft Based" navigation...GPS.

Yes, that is NavCan's intent, but it is still YEARS away.

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doesn't look like it bothered anyone.

Well ... maybe no surprises, given the posted Wxx, but hardly a perfect morning's ops, either, Rattler (& BTW, your source didn't list the diversions properly). Things pretty much at a standstill from 1300-1500Z (<R1200), with the knock-on delays beyond that mostly being short flights which would have been holding departure during that period. The longer ones, which had departed several hours before, lucked out wink.gif.

YYC's Wxx today didn't provide any indication of the consequences of greater restriction between R2600 and R1200. There would have been disruptions below R1200 (R1600 for arrivals) in any case. Where there is no RVOP in place, the new regime will start the backups at R2600. These sequences were not in the newly troublesome window for any sustained period.

06:12 Air Canada AC 8583 Saskatoon A Arrived at 06:30 -----------------0:18 Late

06:28 Air Canada AC 8433 Regina A Arrived at 06:28 ---------------------On Sked

06:34 Air Canada AC 8490 Lethbridge A Arrived at 06:34 -----------------On Sked

06:42 Air Canada AC 8131 Lethbridge / Edmonton A Arrived at 09:58 ---On Sked

************* - WXX below RVR 1200 - *********************************

07:05 Air Canada AC 7052 Vancouver A Arrived at 07:05 -----------------On Sked

07:21 Westjet WS 235 Regina D Delayed 07:45 ----------------------------Returned YQR

07:24 Westjet WS 547 Saskatoon D Delayed 07:30 ------------------------Diverted YVR

07:45 Air Transat TS 459 Ixtapa / Ixtapa Cancelled ------------------------XXXXXXX

08:14 Air Canada AC 8331 Winnipeg A Arrived at 08:59 -------------------0:45 Late

08:19 Westjet WS 395 Winnipeg D Delayed 08:20 --------------------------Diverted YQL

08:30 Air Canada AC 8123 Edmonton A Cancelled --------------------------XXXXXXX

08:39 Westjet WS 2456 Abbotsford D Arrived at 10:27 ---------------------1:48 Late

08:54 Westjet WS 132 Kelowna D Arrived at 10:05 -------------------------1:11 Late

************* - WXX back above RVR 1200 - *****************************

09:10 Westjet WS 567 London ON. D Arrived at 09:20 ---------------------On Sked

09:16 Westjet WS 152 Grande Prairie / Edmonton D Arrived at 10:18 ----1:02 Late

09:16 Westjet WS 134 Victoria D Arrived at 10:06 --------------------------0:50 Late

09:23 Air Canada AC 107 Toronto A Arrived at 09:37 ----------------------On Sked

09:23 Air Canada AC 202 Vancouver A Arrived at 10:35 -------------------1:02 Late

09:25 Westjet WS 653 Toronto D Arrived at 09:33 --------------------------On Sked

09:32 Westjet WS 551 Hamilton D Arrived at 09:39 -------------------------On Sked

09:42 Westjet WS 407 Ottawa D Arrived at 09:48 ---------------------------On Sked

09:50 Air Canada AC 8137 Edmonton A Arrived at 09:55 -------------------On Sked

09:57 Air Canada AC 8392 Kelowna A Arrived at 11:44 ---------------------0:47 Late

10:02 Air Canada AC 8476 Grande Prairie A Arrived at 11:51 --------------1:49 Late

10:04 Westjet WS 229 Halifax D Arrived at 10:30 ----------------------------0:26 Late

10:17 Air Canada AC 8103 Houston C Arrived at 09:58 ---------------------On Sked

10:18 Westjet WS 544 Vancouver D Arrived at 10:36 -----------------------0:18 Late

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Guest rattler
Well ... maybe no surprises, given the posted Wxx, but hardly a perfect morning's ops, either, Rattler (& BTW, your source didn't list the diversions properly). Things pretty much at a standstill from 1300-1500Z (<R1200), with the knock-on delays beyond that mostly being short flights which would have been holding departure during that period. The longer ones, which had departed several hours before, lucked out wink.gif.

YYC's Wxx today didn't provide any indication of the consequences of greater restriction between R2600 and R1200. There would have been disruptions below R1200 (R1600 for arrivals) in any case. Where there is no RVOP in place, the new regime will start the backups at R2600. These sequences were not in the newly troublesome window for any sustained period.

06:12 Air Canada AC 8583 Saskatoon A Arrived at 06:30 -----------------0:18 Late

06:28 Air Canada AC 8433 Regina A Arrived at 06:28 ---------------------On Sked

06:34 Air Canada AC 8490 Lethbridge A Arrived at 06:34 -----------------On Sked

06:42 Air Canada AC 8131 Lethbridge / Edmonton A Arrived at 09:58 ---On Sked

************* - WXX below RVR 1200 - *********************************

07:05 Air Canada AC 7052 Vancouver A Arrived at 07:05 -----------------On Sked

07:21 Westjet WS 235 Regina D Delayed 07:45 ----------------------------Returned YQR

07:24 Westjet WS 547 Saskatoon D Delayed 07:30 ------------------------Diverted YVR

07:45 Air Transat TS 459 Ixtapa / Ixtapa Cancelled ------------------------XXXXXXX

08:14 Air Canada AC 8331 Winnipeg A Arrived at 08:59 -------------------0:45 Late

08:19 Westjet WS 395 Winnipeg D Delayed 08:20 --------------------------Diverted YQL

08:30 Air Canada AC 8123 Edmonton A Cancelled --------------------------XXXXXXX

08:39 Westjet WS 2456 Abbotsford D Arrived at 10:27 ---------------------1:48 Late

08:54 Westjet WS 132 Kelowna D Arrived at 10:05 -------------------------1:11 Late

************* - WXX back above RVR 1200 - *****************************

09:10 Westjet WS 567 London ON. D Arrived at 09:20 ---------------------On Sked

09:16 Westjet WS 152 Grande Prairie / Edmonton D Arrived at 10:18 ----1:02 Late

09:16 Westjet WS 134 Victoria D Arrived at 10:06 --------------------------0:50 Late

09:23 Air Canada AC 107 Toronto A Arrived at 09:37 ----------------------On Sked

09:23 Air Canada AC 202 Vancouver A Arrived at 10:35 -------------------1:02 Late

09:25 Westjet WS 653 Toronto D Arrived at 09:33 --------------------------On Sked

09:32 Westjet WS 551 Hamilton D Arrived at 09:39 -------------------------On Sked

09:42 Westjet WS 407 Ottawa D Arrived at 09:48 ---------------------------On Sked

09:50 Air Canada AC 8137 Edmonton A Arrived at 09:55 -------------------On Sked

09:57 Air Canada AC 8392 Kelowna A Arrived at 11:44 ---------------------0:47 Late

10:02 Air Canada AC 8476 Grande Prairie A Arrived at 11:51 --------------1:49 Late

10:04 Westjet WS 229 Halifax D Arrived at 10:30 ----------------------------0:26 Late

10:17 Air Canada AC 8103 Houston C Arrived at 09:58 ---------------------On Sked

10:18 Westjet WS 544 Vancouver D Arrived at 10:36 -----------------------0:18 Late

Source was http://www.calgaryairport.com/

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Guest woxof

With many airports stuck at being unusable at 1/2 mile, I have been putting some thought into what can be done as many of them won't be upgrading to lower visibility capability. It seems that this is due to the desire to prevent runway incursions as there is an increased risk of such an event in low visibility conditions.

I propose an equivalent level of safety. An operator would prove that they can operate with the same level of safety at a 1/2 mile airport by installing the Honeywell Runway Awareness & Advisory System (RAAS) or similar equipment. The operator would then be issued an Ops Spec by Transport Canada allowing lower visibility taxi operations.

http://www51.honeywell.com/aero/Products-S.../raas.html?c=21

Any comments, especially from someone who has used this system.

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Take the FIDS system display from YYC with a hude grain of salt.

I know for a fact that it is erroneous from what you cut and pasted there.

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