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Wanna see a real airplane?


Kip Powick

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I have noticed one thing though, if you look at the first pic, he's flying with frost on the leading edge.

Iceman

Phhhhhhtttt !! tongue.gif That is the reflection of the Hawk head. You can see it very clearly if you scroll down and you look at the photo of the bird in the hanger. wink.gif The "frost" is now on the right wing biggrin.gif

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Phhhhhhtttt !!  That is the reflection of the Hawk head. You can see it very clearly if you scroll down and you look at the photo of the bird in the hanger. The "frost" is now on the right wing

Kip, Kip, Kip...

Give me a little respect as a professional wink.gif

I know what a reflection is.

If you look outboard of that point all along the leading edge of both wings, you can see the frost dissected by the stringers along the slat. Also, if you go to the seventh last pic, the one in front of the hangar, you can also see the frost on the slat in the shadow of the fuselage on the left wing.

Maybe you need the cheater glasses and Scuba 2 has to hold the monitor a little farther away tongue.gif

Iceman laugh.gif

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Kip, Kip, Kip...

Give me a little respect as a professional wink.gif

I know what a reflection is.

If you look outboard of that point all along the leading edge of both wings, you can see the frost dissected by the stringers along the slat. Also, if you go to the seventh last pic, the one in front of the hangar, you can also see the frost on the slat in the shadow of the fuselage on the left wing.

Maybe you need the cheater glasses and Scuba 2 has to hold the monitor a little farther away tongue.gif

Iceman laugh.gif

Nyet !!! dry.gif Those LE are polished to perfection and in my opinion you are looking at reflections..........

I can't see frost forming only on the inboard LEDs and not on any other part of the aircraft.

The aircraft was cruising from OW to OD and if the fuel was warmer than OAT then maybe frost on the underside of the wing, even at -27C ??? ...but not on the inboard LED only.......but I could be wrong.............again biggrin.gif

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I have to agree with Kip on this one.

I see nothing more than a reflection in any of the pictures. The airborne one is a sun glint IMHO and the one outside the hangar is a reflection of the snow beneath the aircraft.

I think you sprayers of orange and green stuff are just spring loaded to spray the "Naughty Word" out of it. If it looks like frost it's gotta be frost. LOLOL tongue.giftongue.gif

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Give me a little respect as a professional 

I know what a reflection is. 

If you look outboard of that point all along the leading edge of both wings, you can see the frost dissected by the stringers along the slat.  Also, if you go to the seventh last pic, the one in front of the hangar, you can also see the frost on the slat in the shadow of the fuselage on the left wing.

Looks like the professional wanting respect needs some initial training. Somehow a plane that just arrived from an hour long flight from Sault Saint Marie has frost on it still.

Remind me who not to get a tactile check from. laugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.gif

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Good Morning Kip and LE...

What I see in the picture is what we see every day on spoiler panels. It is the cold soaking into a hollow/composite part of the wing. It causes a 'discoloration' much like condensation on a beer can, but has no substance to it. It is visible, but not really anything that has substance.

Ever since the change to CARS after Dryden, we spray dozens of aircraft daily for the same phenomena as you see clearly in those two pictures.

So if you claim it isn't frost, from decades of tactile tests, I will agree with you. It shows up in sunlight, but really glows in the sodium lights around the terminal, and the debate really is, is it a contaminant?

Keeping in mind that SAFETY is always top priority, are we being too safe?

Iceman

P.S. Sorry for changing the direction of the thread, and yes, it still is a gorgeous bird.

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Very nice pics indeed. I remember seeing Clancy jumping into a Sabre at the MooseJaw Airshow back in 83 I believe. He flew the Sunday show routine. What a smile he had on his face after stepping out. smile.gif

Wish I had a chance to fly that machine...one of a few very special aircraft in our aviation history! wink.gif

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If you look outboard of that point all along the leading edge of both wings, you can see the frost dissected by the stringers along the slat. 

Give me a little respect as a professional

Maybe you need the cheater glasses

What I see in the picture is what we see every day on spoiler panels. It is the cold soaking into a hollow/composite part of the wing. It causes a 'discoloration' much like condensation on a beer can, but has no substance to it. 

we spray dozens of aircraft daily for the same phenomena as you see clearly in those two pictures.

Alright........time to put this finally to rest. So how come when they are pushing the plane into the hangar on the fifth last picture, the leading edge is beautiful polished frost free aluminum. Did they de-ice after landing before they started pushing it in the hangar?

It was mentioned that the first picture in flight has frost on it. Aside from perhaps fuel tank areas, how many have seen a jet landing on a nice sunny day with frost on the leading edges after an hour long flight? Perhaps a longer flight as it says at least one flypast was done.

Here is a photo from before it was repainted and polished. You have that different reflections of light off the slat in this photo just like you see on the photos discussed above. It is in a nice warm hangar so frost is highly unlikely.

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2328488690043471775TUYDjL

Below is the same aircraft with the same frosty wings on a nice warm summer day. Cheater glasses not included.laugh.gif

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2253746490043471775rXnxow

You are spraying dozens of aircraft every day for stuff like this? How many times as a pax have we seen AC spray and wonder why they are spraying? Now we know why. Looks like you have created yourself a summer job.

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Alright........time to put this finally to rest. So how come when they are pushing the plane into the hangar on the fifth last picture, the leading edge is beautiful polished frost free aluminum. Did they de-ice after landing before they started pushing it in the hangar?

It was mentioned that the first picture in flight has frost on it. Aside from perhaps fuel tank areas, how many have seen a jet landing on a nice sunny day with frost on the leading edges after an hour long flight? Perhaps a  longer flight as it says at least one flypast was done.

Morning W...

I am basing my observations on the fact that the webpage says that it was -27c at the time, and what I observe in the photos is the same type of cold soaking phenomena that we see on wings on a daily basis. As I said before, if you look at the seventh picture from the bottom, you see the discoloration on the left wing in the shade but not on the right wing. That is an indication of cold soaking and the start of the formation of frost.

Is it frost? According to most of the flightcrews of aircraft that we inspect it is and we are then mandated to spray/mop/wipe it off.

Your additional pictures, taken in warmer times, show that the discoloration of the leading edge is something to do with either the age of the metal, or the manufacturing of the part. I won't deny that.

Frost is a dynamic beast. It all depends on temp, humidity, winds, cloud cover, and many other variables. It will appear on aircraft on one side of the terminal, but not on the other. It will form, dissipate, then reform. It is an ever changing thing.

One can make assumptions from a picture, although it is only through a thorough tactile check that you can only be sure that it is really frost. It isn't something that can be clearly observed from a distance or through a window.

So to summarise, the pictures on the website show a condition that leads us to perform a tactile inspection for frost. Most times we have to spray aircraft because the flight crews see the same phenomena through the windows and want a clean wing.

Is it frost?

Iceman

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Centennial of Flight Dinner

If you want to see this fabulous piece of Canadian aviation history, meet some of the gentlemen who flew with the "Hawks" and celebrate 100 years of Canadian aviation history, then see the link below.

I know tickets are going fast. They sold 150 seats in the first two weeks!

Hopefully see you there!

http://www.comoxairforcemuseum.ca/cofdinner.html

Per Ardua Ad Astra

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