Iggy would lead Liberal/NDP coalition

[BoomerPete]

It's people like you who will be destroying Canada.

Nothing like making it personal, is there handyman?

Think about it for a second.

What the opposition proposes is entirely within the constitutional rules of our nation. Had Harper considered that prior to trying take a baseball bat to their knees we would not be in this mess. The blame certainly does not lie with those voters (presumably including FA@AC) who were smart enough to see him for what he is and who thus refused to support his leadership regardless of the merits of his party.

If you don't like where we're at then lay the blame where it belongs, at Stephen Harper's feet.

Pete

[13820]

I think that was my point. You are a west coast bleeding liberal. Western Canada is done with the likes of you. Stand by for further.

[Guest woxof]

Hardly.

The point of what Harper has attempted and how he's now lying to Canadian's about our Constitutional processes could not be clearer. He's demonstrated that he is incapable of governing in the entire nation's interest. His methods and strategies have been revealed as cynical, divisive and intended to place partisan objectives ahead of any other national consideration.

What I don't get is that those who support the Conservative party here don't seem to understand that he has sewered any hopes you may have held of the Conservatives gaining a majority government under his leadership. After this stunt, so long as Stephen Harper is their leader, the Conservatives will NEVER be capable of winning a majority; he's simply peed off too many of the voters you whose support you would need. And, the opposition parties have made it abundantly clear that they will NEVER support another minority government lead by him. As long as Harper's in you're out. It's as simple as that.

So, when are you guys going to clue in and, as a certain advice columnist puts it: DTMF!

As for what part of the West I'm in, why would it matter? Are you going to try and parse the country further down into a "Real West" and an "Other West" a la Sarah Palin? I can tell you that I'm probably as far or further west than you, and that if Harper walked down the streets of my neighborhood he'd be jeered at every corner.

Pete

-No one is capable of governing in the "entire nation's interest" when there are such different interests. If lying makes you incapable of doing so then don't forget all the lies made by past and present politicians.

-if "methods and strategies have been revealed as cynical, divisive and intended to place partisan objectives ahead of any other national consideration" then don't forget to mention how this pre-planned opposition coalition takeover from a government that has really not even put forward a budget or anything else since re-elected a mere 6 weeks ago is the same.

-"sewered any hopes you may have held of the Conservatives gaining a majority government under his leadership. After this stunt, so long as Stephen Harper is their leader, the Conservatives will NEVER be capable of winning a majority; he's simply peed off too many of the voters you whose support you would need. And, the opposition parties have made it abundantly clear that they will NEVER support another minority government lead by him. As long as Harper's in you're out. It's as simple as that. ". This is strictly opinion only likely based on personal hopes and backed up by no factual evidence.

Farther west than you and jeered at every corner? Vancouver Centre perhaps? After all they were all into jeering the GG when she showed some concern for the Downtown East Side.

Woxof....pointing out the hypocrisies.

[Guest woxof]

It would be appreciated if the personal insults would stop. 13820 and Handyman very recently on this thread. Don't put yourself down to level of Dagger, Deicer and FA@AC please. It's ruined their credibility as it will yours.

If you disagree with an opinion then point out step by step why you think they are wrong instead of accusing people of destroying the country(unless they support the BQ that is) or other name-calling. I find it distasteful coming from both sides of the spectrum.

[deicer]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/politics/home

"If the attack gets too belligerent it might also serve to remind voters about what kicked off the Tory crisis to begin with - too much hard-edged partisanship. Yesterday, those hardball tactics prompted one of the mildest parliamentarians - former Conservative-turned-Independent Bill Casey - to suggest that a prime-ministerial resignation might be a good way to remove the poison from the situation."

[Guest woxof]

Without having read the article yet, and I will I see this in the headline...

"PM may be calculating he has to sacrifice the province(Quebec) in order to build support elsewhere"

And that is exactly what should be done. Aside from finally putting violent juveniles where they belong and cutting off artists who think my money is their money, it is time to call the over transferred to Quebecers bluff. If you are going to separate, then do so on a clear question because the time for your massive subsidies with combined ungratefulness needs to end. 10 seats is probably the max for Quebec.

Quebec said loud and clear what they want in the past election. A bunch of parasites representing most of them sucking out as much as possible from the main body.

We may find out soon what Quebec was given in secret to get the Bloc to support this deal. Billions maybe, perhaps senate seats. Somebody well known might be revealing this info soon. Perhaps.

[AME]

3. A “no surprises” approach

Within the limits of common sense and the needs of cabinet government, the two

parties agree they will work together on a “no surprises” basis.

Furthermore, upon its formation, the government will put in place a permanent

consultation mechanism with the Bloc Québécois.

I wonder what "permanent" means is it for the life of the agreement or are they planning to stick this on every Government from now on?

[AME]

Stephen Harper has debased democracy and harmed the country with his uber-partisanship.

This entire situation is of his making, and he should resign.

No ifs, ands or buts

He is not a worthy leader of a G-7 country.

He does not deserve respect. He has not earned it. There are qualified Tories in the caucus who would make a better prime minister, who would restore dignity to the office and show respect to all Canadians that he/she understands the challenges facing us today.

Harper seems to think politics is a video-game, like World of Warcraft, where the goal is to obliterate your opponents. "Zap! Zap! Zap! You're dead!" He is utterly incapable of grasping that the epitome of politics is service to your country.

The damage he has caused is incalculable and can only be repaired by his departure.

You forgot to preface this with IMO (notice I didn't put IMHO )

[AME]

I read your link. Saw no mention of Gordon Campbell. I think 100% of this "incentive" will fall east of the soo.

Gordon has gone on record to ask for forestry subsidies, this was only after it was announced that our tax dollars would be used to prop up failing industries, until then he had basically said sucks to be you. IMHO

[Guest rattler]

Gee, then you must be royally ticked off with Harper for having screwed up so badly that his government might not survive.

I received the following email this morning, I think it sums up nicely how a lot of my fellow Canadians feel.

Hi:  I am taking the unusual step of forwarding this political message to most everyone in my mailing list because I am absolutely outraged at what is going on in Ottawa.  I fault our Prime Minister for provoking the opposition with threatening to remove taxpayer funding for political parties ( a measure which, in itself, I fully support{why should we fund the separatists when their own voters won’t}...but the timing was a big mistake).  I do, however, believe that this is the real reason behind this crazy coalition...not the government’s response to the economic crisis as they would have us believe.  In any event, we have a spectacle that defies belief.  A wannabe Prime Minister who promised to never work in coalition with the NDP and who doesn’t even have the support of his own caucus (and consequently has tendered his own resignation); a narcissistic leader of the NDP whose policies would be economic disaster and who lusts only for power; all supported by a separatist who would hijack the whole country for the supposed benefit of Quebec.  And this a mere 6 weeks after those parties failed to win the support of the Canadian people in a federal election.

And what would likely happen should they gain power?  Based on their recent campaign promises we can look forward to immediate bailouts of a failing auto industry with no guarantee (and before knowing what the US will do) that they will work (experience indicates they won’t-Ontario has already tried it only to see subsequent plant closures), bailouts of the Quebec forestry industry in contravention of the softwood lumber agreement with the USA thereby killing the industry which is only in  down cycle, measures to curtail development of Canadian oilsands thereby not only creating a constitutional crisis with Alberta and Saskatchewan but killing investment in the very industry that currently keeps the federal government in surplus; additional regulatory and financial burdens on corporations in the name of protecting jobs, the environment and pensions and thereby causing the very thing they are supposedly going to prevent.  The world is in a financial crisis and Canada is probably the best positioned country in the world to weather this storm and now we have an irrational and inherently unstable coalition going to jump in with ill considered measures which will ensure that we join the rest of the world. This is insanity.

So, I am appalled, angry and motivated.  I will be contacting my MP, attending demonstrations and doing whatever I can to stand up for our democracy.  You may or may not agree with me but whatever your personal take on this I urge you to speak up.  Contact your MP of whatever party and tell them how Canadians feel about all this.  Whatever the outcome, it is time for change...this system is no longer working.

Changing the system will take time and a lot of dialogue.  In the meantime I think the Governor General should tell them all to desist with the partisan bickering, say NO to the coalition and tell them all to get to work on governing the country prudently and responsibly.

[AME]

Funny. My part of the West knows exactly who's responsible for this mess, and we're more than happy to see him get the boot. We ain't going anywhere, but Stephen is. Good riddance!

The idea of western separation has been around for a long time, the problem is that it would never work as well for the west, as it has for Quebec, tradionally the west has been conservative, and the east liberal, with Quebec holding the balance of power, they know it and have used it well to obtain all they could (very smart politics)

This whole fiasco has been very well orchestrated, what Government hasn't suggested extremely controversial legistration, only to ammend it before it is put before the house? the current bill is no different, in fact, I find it quite humerous that the current buzz word to describe the conservatives is "partisanship" because they, regardless of the motives were saving tax payer dollars, and this coming from a group who squandered a billion or so in a sponsership deal

As for what's about to happen it is legal, and quite frankly I'm suprized it hasn't happened in the past, what I fear it that this will now be the norm for any minority government, and it could be years before we see any political stability in this country.

My thoughts on the coalition are just this, we tend to vote along party lines regardless of who the candidate is but in reality we vote for the person and they are free to change sides at their discretion, and that is where I have a problem with this type of coalition, if the tables were reversed and the tories were forming a pact with the NDP and the Bloc I would like it no better.

The preceding were strictly my thoughts and are in no way to be construed as fact and as always are subject to change when further information becomes available

[handyman]

Hi: I am taking the unusual step of forwarding this political message to most everyone in my mailing list because I am absolutely outraged at what is going on in Ottawa. I fault our Prime Minister for provoking the opposition with threatening to remove taxpayer funding for political parties ( a measure which, in itself, I fully support{why should we fund the separatists when their own voters won’t}...but the timing was a big mistake). I do, however, believe that this is the real reason behind this crazy coalition...not the government’s response to the economic crisis as they would have us believe. In any event, we have a spectacle that defies belief. A wannabe Prime Minister who promised to never work in coalition with the NDP and who doesn’t even have the support of his own caucus (and consequently has tendered his own resignation); a narcissistic leader of the NDP whose policies would be economic disaster and who lusts only for power; all supported by a separatist who would hijack the whole country for the supposed benefit of Quebec. And this a mere 6 weeks after those parties failed to win the support of the Canadian people in a federal election.

And what would likely happen should they gain power? Based on their recent campaign promises we can look forward to immediate bailouts of a failing auto industry with no guarantee (and before knowing what the US will do) that they will work (experience indicates they won’t-Ontario has already tried it only to see subsequent plant closures), bailouts of the Quebec forestry industry in contravention of the softwood lumber agreement with the USA thereby killing the industry which is only in down cycle, measures to curtail development of Canadian oilsands thereby not only creating a constitutional crisis with Alberta and Saskatchewan but killing investment in the very industry that currently keeps the federal government in surplus; additional regulatory and financial burdens on corporations in the name of protecting jobs, the environment and pensions and thereby causing the very thing they are supposedly going to prevent. The world is in a financial crisis and Canada is probably the best positioned country in the world to weather this storm and now we have an irrational and inherently unstable coalition going to jump in with ill considered measures which will ensure that we join the rest of the world. This is insanity.

So, I am appalled, angry and motivated. I will be contacting my MP, attending demonstrations and doing whatever I can to stand up for our democracy. You may or may not agree with me but whatever your personal take on this I urge you to speak up. Contact your MP of whatever party and tell them how Canadians feel about all this. Whatever the outcome, it is time for change...this system is no longer working.

Changing the system will take time and a lot of dialogue. In the meantime I think the Governor General should tell them all to desist with the partisan bickering, say NO to the coalition and tell them all to get to work on governing the country prudently and responsibly.

I agree...it accurately describes how people in the west feel!

[FireFox]

I agree with a lot of that Rattler, thanks for posting it.

Despite Boomer's assertion, there is huge backlash against the troika in the West, if not the whole country. Bill Good's (a moderate) CKNW talk show was running around 95% against the coaliton. CTV's national poll was heavily in favour of Harper.

I see Parizeau is now coming out in support of the Bloc's decision. No wonder considering his quote below. It seems his universe is unfolding as it should. Dion & Layton are unwitting dupes.

>>A prominent newspaper columnist warned, however, that federalists shouldn't be too gleeful about a federal government supported by the Bloc.

Michel David described how Jacques Parizeau - the former PQ premier who led the independence forces in the 1995 referendum - envisioned the Bloc's role at the time of its inception.

Parizeau predicted in 1991 that the Bloc would create a chaotic "Italian-style parliament" in Ottawa, a place so dysfunctional that it would help lead to the breakup of Canada.<<

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2008/...7310686-cp.html

[Guest rattler]

Liberal Dream team (Maybe)

Don Martin: An exclusive tentative list of who's in the Liberal-NDP coalition cabinet

Posted: December 03, 2008, 12:04 PM by NP Editor

Canadian Politics

The spectre of Parliament going on early Christmas holidays if Gov. Gen. Michaëlle Jean cancels the 40th session today hasn't discouraged Liberal leader Stephane Dion from mapping out a cabinet that could be sworn in as early as next week.

A source who sat in on Tuesday night negotiations said the talks have produced a tentative list of MPs for senior portfolios in the event that Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government falls on Monday and a Liberal-led coalition's executive council needs to be sworn in quickly.

The finance portfolio will go, as expected, to Saskatchewan MP Ralph Goodale, who held the job during the Paul Martin government.

Leadership hopeful Bob Rae's team argued for Industry, but he appears headed for the hot potato portfolio of Foreign Affairs. The Industry post, the source insisted, would go to New Democrat leader Jack Layton.

International Trade will go to Ottawa MP David McGuinty, the brother of Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty.

MP Denis Coderre is tagged as the Public Works Minister, an odd choice given the difficulties that portfolio has caused for Quebec Liberal MPs in the past, while to nobody's surprise legal expert Irwin Cotler is tapped for the Justice job and Todd Russell of Newfoundland is heading into Indian Affairs.

Carolyn Bennett, a medical doctor, is headed for Health while long-shot leadership candidate Dominic LeBlanc got what he asked for as minister for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency.

A difficult finger-wrestling is under way between Boris Wrzesnewskyj and Dan McTeague for the Immigration job. Both MPs having expertise in that area, but a winner has not been decided.

Rookie Justin Trudeau had hinted he's like the Human Resources job, but that would appear to be a slot reserved for the New Democrats. No alternative has been decided for the former prime minister's son.

No word on what role, if any, Michael Ignatieff would play in Cabinet.

The list is still a work in progress, the source said, and would be subject to more revision if Parliament prorogues and doesn't return until late January 2009.

[Guest woxof]

Didn't I tell you someone well known would give information soon....

"Today I would like to know what he thinks about the gains made by the Bloc Québécois and Gilles Duceppe in Ottawa,” Marois said mentioning that under the agreement hammered out between the Liberals, New Democratic Party and Bloc, Otttawa would in theory turn over more in equalization payments as well as creating an economic stimulation and infrastructure package."

Personally, I'm saddened that Parizeau and Marois didn't mention anything about guaranteed senate seats that I hear have been reserved for Quebec(Harper would have it based on a vote).

Now you can start see the dirty dealings that are really going on in order to get rid of our "mean-spirited", "partisan", "incompetent" PM. Are you still for the coalition? What else has Jack and Gilles wrested out of Dion in his desperate attempt to become PM? Time will tell.

Woxof....having perhaps a little inside info

[AME]

Todd Russell of Newfoundland is heading into Indian Affairs.

Does anyone else see the irony is this

[Guest rattler]

They have a plan (they can not tell us the cost or the schedule) and here is the latest. So their plan (not yet in print) could be scaled back ...... from what

Coalition wary on health of Ottawa finances

Paul Vieira, Financial Post 

Published: Wednesday, December 03, 2008

OTTAWA -- The Liberal Party's chief economics strategist, John McCallum, signalled Wednesday that the coalition government's proposed stimulus package could be scaled back if it finds the public finances are in worse shape than what the Conservatives have let on.

[YYC I/C]

As an easterner having now lived in Calgary for the last 7 years, I am truly surpriesed at the sincere disdain by the citizens of Alberta for anything from central Canada (Ontario/Quebec). In many ways, I often feel this disdain is stronger than Quebec's aspiration for its own "nation."

If there's a deal with the Bloq, or who ever (the Green Party's Elisabeth May), for Senate seats as part of this coalition agreement, it will be seen as an act of war in Alberta. Patronage appointments to the Senate are not viewed highly in Alberta at the best of times, but patronage appointments to the Senate as part of an agreement that many Albertan's, rightly or wrongly, view as an act of treason will really stir up the citizenry

[Guest]

This whole thing is threatening to me. I voted for a Conservative government. I certainly did not vote for Stephane Dion or Jack Layton or Gilles Duceppe.

And here I though we simply voted for MP's in our riding.

I never saw the "Harper - Prime Minister" box to check off.

I live in the "Right Honourable Prime Ministers" nighbourhood in Calgary and the next time I see him at the Crowfoot Cinema laughing at fart jokes in a Trailer Park Boys movie, I'll be sure offer him my sincere thanks for proving that any idiot can achieve the highest office in the country.

[spreadsheet]

I don’t know why the parties are so upset about the proposal to drop the $1.95/vote funding, they’d just blow it on beer and popcorn anyway.

[handyman]

I don’t know why the parties are so upset about the proposal to drop the $1.95/vote funding, they’d just blow it on beer and popcorn anyway.

Good one!

Scott Reid...a Liberal to be proud of. Possibly the reflection of his proud leader.

[Guest rattler]

It will be interesting to see how many of these questions, if any, will be answered.

Eleven critical questions for Stephane Dion to answer

Posted: December 03, 2008, 12:30 PM by Kelly McParland

Full Comment, Kelly McParland, Canadian politics

There are a number of questions Stephane Dion and Jack Layton need to answer if they seriously hope to convince Canadians their coalition is a legitimate reflection of the popular will.

• How does the "permanent consultation mechanism" with the Bloc Quebecois work? How are we to know what demands the separatists have made, and which have been granted? Who will be involved in the consultation?

• Do both Mr. Dion and Mr. Layton have the authority to grant demands made by the separatists, as co-leaders of the coalition?

• On what basis will separatist demands be met? According to the best interests of the country, or the danger that a refusal might represent to the coalition?

• Shouldn't any demand that is good for the Bloc, and thus for the separatist cause, by definition be seen as undesirable for federalism, and thus for Canada?

• Where is the $30 billion for the "bailout" coming from? How was this figure arrived at?

• Why is the coalition proceeding with a bailout when the Bank of Canada said Monday that Canada's economy continued to expand, growing at an annualized rate of 1.3% in the third quarter, faster than expected, and the quickest growth rate of the year?

• How can the coalition claim the Conservative government has failed to adequately prepare for a recession, when the economy continues to expand? How can preparations for something that hasn't happened be judged to have failed? How can they be judged inadequate when the extent of the difficulty isn't known yet?

• Do the coalition leaders consider it always legitimate to replace a government if, in the eyes of the opposition, it has not prepared adequately for a problem that has not taken place?

• Green party leader Elizabeth May says she has spoken to Mr. Dion regarding a seat in the Senate, and a role in the coalition government. Considering Ms. May led a party that ran candidates in 307 ridings and was rejected in all 307, what would be the justification for rewarding her with a lifetime sinecure in the Senate?

• An appointment for Ms. May would appear to be a reward for agreeing not to run a candidate in Mr. Dion's riding. Is it the coalition's position that appointing senators on the basis of their personal deals with the Liberal party leader is an appropriate means of populating the upper house? Will Mr. Dion be appointing friends and relatives as well?

• If Ms. May is appointed to the Senate and given a role in the government, she will be an unelected member of an unelected government, appointed by an unelected prime minister. Can Mr. Dion explain how this reflects the will of Canadians as expressed in the recent general election? Can he explain how it furthers the interests of democracy to impose such a government on Canadians?

Kelly McParland

National Post

[FireFox]

Marois said mentioning that under the agreement hammered out between the Liberals, New Democratic Party and Bloc, Otttawa would in theory turn over more in equalization payments as well as creating an economic stimulation and infrastructure package."

Evidently it is ONE BILLION:

From the National Post

>>His comments reflect those of the current PQ leader Pauline Marois who is using the crisis to advance her own cause in the provincial election campaign. She says the agreement allows Quebec to get $1-billion in equalization payments it would not have otherwise had. On the other hand, Ms. Marois also says the crisis shows the Canadian federation no longer functions and Quebec should separate.<<

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/p...-coalition.aspx

[AME]

Evidently it is ONE BILLION:

From the National Post

>>His comments reflect those of the current PQ leader Pauline Marois who is using the crisis to advance her own cause in the provincial election campaign. She says the agreement allows Quebec to get $1-billion in equalization payments it would not have otherwise had. On the other hand, Ms. Marois also says the crisis shows the Canadian federation no longer functions and Quebec should separate.<<

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/p...-coalition.aspx

Let me get this straight... SHE wants a separation AND all the money??????

[handyman]

Let me get this straight... SHE wants a separation AND all the money??????

That is how they think...I hope people slowly realize the true threat of this coalition.