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Iggy would lead Liberal/NDP coalition


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I can quote editorials from Calgary and Edmonton. I have yet to see an Alberta commentator think that last week's turmoil was anything but Harper's doing, and to his discredit. Going forward, they may have more bad to say about the opposition, but right now this is where things are at.

I've did a survey of the blog attached to your original link and found that out of the 25 responses I read (not all of them just the first 25) 12 were for Harper, 8 were for a coalition, 4 thought the Paper had lost it's credibility and 1 thought the paper was OK.

Here is a quote from one of the supporters (this one is a little extreme)

by TorontoTwink

Dec 01 2008

4:28 AM TORONTOSTOAT,

No, Since I've been a voter in 1993, I've always supported the Liberals. I always will.

I do not give a rats ass what you think of me.

If you are from Toronto, you would be very much behind the Liberals, and only the Liberals.

Harper is a Western upstart, and he and the Western bigots must be stopped, at any and all costs.

Canada is a laughing stock when it comes to the Kyoto Protocol.

The Liberals have earned their right to govern this nation as it sees fit.

Thanks to Pierre Elliot Trudeau, we have a fully functioning judicial system.

Thanks to Jean Chretien, we have political credibility and stability restored to Canadian federalism, viz-a-viz, federal subsidies to the parties and other electoral reforms.

To all you arch-Conservatives out there: It will be a coalition between the Liberals and NDP, supported by the Bloc Quebecois, not separatists.

The Bloc is freely elected by the voters of Quebec, to represent Quebec interests in a united Canada, nothing more, nothing less.

Canadians, time and time again, have consistently and repeatedly elected Liberal Party governments. They will, whether they like it or not, accept this one.

Now as much as I would like to say that Harper has an almost 50% approval rating based on the blog attached to your link, I just can't go there biggrin.gifwink.gif

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Dion will lead coalition

December 1, 2008 at 1:58 PM EST

Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion will be prime minister of an unprecedented coalition government if Parliament defeats the Conservatives next week.

Liberal MPs announced the decision after a caucus meeting to review plans for the coalition.

The three opposition leaders are drafting a letter to Governor-General Michaëlle Jean in which they formally call on her to allow the formation of a coalition government if the Conservatives are defeated on a confidence motion Dec. 8.

Opposition sources said Monday the drafting of the letter is at an advanced stage, and will be made public with the agreement of the leadership of the Liberal Party, the New Democratic Party and the Bloc Québécois.

The Liberals and NDP have agreed to a $30-billion stimulus package as part of a tentative coalition deal to oust the Harper government according to a senior Liberal source

The NDP says it may pursue criminal charges after the Conservatives covertly listened in, taped and distributed audio of a closed-door New Democrat strategy session

"We've decided that the only person and the best person to lead and form a coalition government is the elected leader of our party ... Stéphane Dion," said leadership hopeful Dominic LeBlanc.

"We are comfortable with that, we support that and we think that's right."

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Hmmm....enjoy a nice vacation in the warmth for a couple of weeks and unsurprisingly, look what happens to the country without me wink.gif .

I for one would like to see Dion become our PM with Layton as finance minister all supported by the Bloc, the party out to destroy Canada. It seems that like most people, Canadians will have to learn the hard way(just like when it came to deficits).

After a while a Tory majority will return.

Woxof....saying cheers to Stephane, Jack, and Gilles our soon to be unelected government. smile.giftongue.gifbiggrin.gif

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I feel quite comfortable pulling numbers out of the air. If it's 85% or 90%, very few people think that what Harper did last week, or at least tried to do, was good for the country.

You are going to have to look a little farther than Quebec or Ontario although I know you think that is Canada.

There was a poll on CFAX (that would be in BC) radio website and 71% of respondents were in favour of removing the $1.95 subsidy.

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Guest rattler

Cheap, Dirty but

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...PStory/National

Cheap, dirty, but maybe healthy

LYSIANE GAGNON

lgagnon@lapresse.ca

E-mail Lysiane Gagnon | Read Bio | Latest Columns

December 1, 2008

True, the Harper government's project to eliminate part of the public funding of political parties was a cheap and dirty trick. True, the government's fiscal update was unacceptable: Not only was it devoid of the stimuli needed in these times, it was fraught with gratuitous anti-labour measures. There was more ideology than governance in this document.

Worse, at the outset of a serious economic crisis, when co-operation was badly needed in Parliament, Mr. Harper's first move was to give the finger to the opposition. This was the height of irresponsibility.

But is this a reason for toppling the government and precipitating Canadians into another election - the other nightmare scenario being a coalition government headed by the most unpopular politician in the country, with Jack Layton as finance minister?

Certainly not, especially now that the government has backed down on three major points: it has withdrawn its proposal to cut public subsidies to parties; it will move up the budget date to Jan. 27, which means it could adopt measures to stimulate the economy in fewer than two months; and it will not remove civil servants' right to strike. Now, the opposition parties have no reason to engineer their power grab.

Mr. Harper's latest tactic was cynicism at its worst. But he won an election just six weeks ago, and Canadians can't go to the polls each time they're angry at the government. And a coalition government is the last thing we need at a time of economic crisis.

In any case, would the opposition leaders have been so furious if the Finance Minister's package hadn't hurt their own interests? The Liberals are especially affected by cuts in party funding because they were already in debt. But nobody will cry over their finances. If they hadn't depended on lavish donations from corporate Canada for decades, they would have developed the ability to raise funds from party members and sympathizers, just as the Tories have done. This is a healthy tradition the Tories inherited from the Reform party, which relied on small donations from its grassroots, and this is the reason they are flush while the Liberals are deep in debt.

The opposition parties were over-dramatizing when they claimed the proposed cut in public funding would starve them. The allocation of $1.95 per voter is only one part of the set of subsidies financed by taxpayers. The other measures were untouched by the initial government plan. Parties will still benefit from private donations. (Individuals can donate as much as $1,100 to a party and the same amount to a candidate or a riding association.) Donors will still get tax credits.

If our parties are serious organizations, why don't they ask for contributions from their members and sympathizers, like Barack Obama did? His expensive campaign was in good part financed by millions of modest private donations via the Internet.

If the parties didn't rely almost exclusively on taxpayers, they would have an incentive to develop new methods of fundraising and to maintain close contacts with their supporters. They could even reach outside the tent, as Mr. Obama did, to the great benefit of the Democratic Party, which has now enlarged its base.

Of course, it is in the interest of democracy that political parties are able to operate freely and rely on stable financing, and the sad fact is that many people don't put their money where their mouth is.

They won't open their wallets for the party they root for, even if they have enough money for flat-screen TVs and other sophisticated gadgets. So it's the responsibility of the state to shore up the parties. But if the political parties are the necessary infrastructure to democracy, the soul of democracy is the involvement of citizens in the political process. Private donations are part of this involvement

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Yikes!!!!

huh.gif

Dion??? What a great way to remove the coalition's credibility....

He is the cause of the Liberal demise... get a neutral replacement who isn't in the running for the leadership.

If Harper could have governed in sensible way... we wouldn't be in this mess. You would think he would know how a minority government works....

No one needs this mess right now.

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Welcome to the Third World. This is one step removed from a coup d'etat.

A coalition gov't would have no legitimacy whatsoever and will undoubtedly raise the spectre of various separation movements.

If the Opposition had any cajones, they'd bring the gov't down and go to the polls.

Then again, we're talking abut Liberals, NDP and the Bloc. 'Nuff said...

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Welcome to the Third World. This is one step removed from a coup d'etat.

A coalition gov't would have no legitimacy whatsoever and will undoubtedly raise the spectre of various separation movements.

If the Opposition had any cajones, they'd bring the gov't down and go to the polls.

Then again, we're talking abut Liberals, NDP and the Bloc. 'Nuff said...

"This is one step removed from a coup d'etat."

Bullcrap. When Harper proposed this as opposition leader, it was democracy, in the British Parliamentary tradition, but when the opposition does it against Harper, it's suddenly one step removed from a coup d'etat?

Try to live by one set of rules and not make them up as you go along, Bean.

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Guest rattler

"This is one step removed from a coup d'etat."

Bullcrap. When Harper proposed this as opposition leader, it was democracy, in the British Parliamentary tradition, but when the opposition does it against Harper, it's suddenly one step removed from a coup d'etat?

Try to live by one set of rules and not make them up as you go along, Bean.

Here is what Canadians are saying today on CTV Canada wide poll, from all across Canada .........

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/HTMLTemplate?Res...bhub=VoteResult

An NDP-Liberal coalition would:

Reflect the will of the people  4460 votes    (27 %)

Be nothing more than a power grab  12209 votes    (73 %)

 

Total Votes: 16669

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Good God folks, let's not set our collective hair on fire. It isn't the end of the world.

Third World?! Have you completely lost your perspective and sensibilities, bean?

All manner of dire predictions almost certainly won't come true - it's politics, after all and not physics and nobody is a specialist.

A "disaster" is what happened in Mumbai for heavens' sake! A disaster is what the U.S. did to itself and the rest of the world. We have a Constitution in place and it is being followed. Let it be, let it unfold and have confidence in what we've built as a nation. Settle down, turn off the news, find some sales for Christmas, buy a friend an eggnog and celebrate the season and this country. Be thankful we don't have real disasters on our hands. This is going to go where it is going to go regardless of the adrenaline injections.

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Here is what Canadians are saying today on CTV Canada wide poll, from all across Canada .........

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/HTMLTemplate?Res...bhub=VoteResult

Dag....try to keep that partisanship in your pocket.

Watching the antics in Ottawa reminds me of watching the same cast of idiots that tend to run most student governments in various universities across the country. They have no sense of reality and live in their own little self-important worlds.

Why are you so vehemently opposed to the Oppostion doing the right thing and demanding an election so the voters can speak?

It's pretty clear from the last election that Liberals and NDP have nothing even close to a mandate to govern the country. The Bloc? They couldn't give a rats ass about anything outside La Belle Province.

Cobbling these diverse agendas all together to come up with something that would approach coherent policy is as absurd as it is ridiculous as it is frightening. The featherbedding and the giant sucking sound of tax dollars being spent would drown out any common sense left in this country.

The cost of another election is nothing compared to the damage that a sucking and blowing, goofball, Italian-like coalition of NDP, Liberals and the Bloc could do to Canada in 18 months.

cool26.gif

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Guest rattler

Just listened to the live broadcast from the Coalition of the Willing. I guess to sum it up: once again political parties continue to do what they want despite the wish of those who elected them, principals are cast aside in their pursuit of power. (Dagger your so called facts that the majority of Canadians support this, do appear to be very wrong based on polls conducted today).

It appears that the duly elected government of Canada will be replaced by the three horsemen, one of whom will step aside in May. I note that the BLOC has agreed to not vote against the government for 18 months (mind you they don't say the will vote in favor either), so if the Liberals proposed something that the BLOC didn't particularly like, they are free to sit out and not cast a vote, even if this would cause the coalition to fail. We are in for interesting times and we can only hope that we will not be worse off in the long run.

Thankfully, here in Canada, the military will not cast the deciding vote as they would and have in other countries.

I wonder if PM Harper will now hold the record for the shortest term in office after a general election? biggrin.gif

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As I suspected the Liberals whores will do anything to get back in power. Layton and Duceppe are not going to go along without getting their pieces of silver. Watch the deficit skyrocket as the Liberals bend us over and let Flash Jack and Duceppe have their way with us.

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These are the same Liberals who under Trudeau destroyed our country. Can't wait for the 22% intrest rates here after they are done. blink.gif

Bring on another election to boot their butts where they belong...to the curb.

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One thing that may happen is that our Governor General, when the matter is finally turned over to her, will take one look at these clowns...say no way...& put it to the people again to decide, which is her right.

As rattler's polls have pointed out, this will be a huge blunder for the Libs & New Democrats.

In this coalition of stooges the person with the real hammer & who is probably rubbing his hands with glee over this is Duceppe.

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Guest rattler

Well do I remember the 17% mortgage rates in the 70s but they were interesting times in other ways. I wonder how Canada would look today if PM Trudeau had not invoked the "War Measures Act"? I have a recording of his radio address that still raises my goosebumps.

I guess what I am saying, so far in Canada we have been lucky / privileged in that we have yet to elect or allow a truly evil government. Let's hope that continues.

Re his address, if you have never heard it, you can view it here: http://archives.cbc.ca/war_conflict/civil_...topics/101-618/

And then 20 years later: http://archives.cbc.ca/war_conflict/civil_...topics/101-618/

Cheers all

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Guest rattler

As an alternate solution....

Why not remove Harper and have the Conservatives elect a new leader who would govern with a minority mindset?

I don't particularly like the coalition but Harper gives me the shivers....

The coalition gives me the shivers. Why not defeat the government and allow the votes decide who deserves to run the country? The coalition belief that they know better than the voters does piss me off! I never did subscribe to rule by divine right!

And here is another opinion, I hope he is wrong as I don't believe that the average citizens of Quebec harbour any desire to rule or control the rest of Canada

Kelly McParland: Liberal coalition could make Canada a colony of Quebec

Posted: December 01, 2008, 11:50 AM by Kelly McParland

Full Comment, Kelly McParland, Canadian politics

Having been handed a political gift by Stephen Harper, the Liberal party is doubling down instead of pocketing the win. The Prime Minister’s plan to hobble opposition parties by ending their access to taxpayer subsidies has blown up in his face, much as such plans always do when evil geniuses try to take over the world.

The opposition had this thing won: They humiliated Mr. Harper, forced him to back down, and undermined his authority with his own caucus. But rather than accept victory and withdraw with honour, top figures from the NDP and the Liberals spent the weekend conspiring for more. They want to run the whole country, and they apparently don’t care what sort of sham government they have to put together to do it.

In place of the Conservatives we are to be offered a Liberal-led coalition with Stéphane Dion temporarily at its head and a quarter of the cabinet spots occupied by the NDP. That still doesn’t provide enough votes to counter the Conservatives, so it will have to be propped up by the Bloc Québécois to survive. The national government will be dependent on the separatist Bloc to approve all major legislation, in effect making Canada a colony of Quebec.

The three men contending for the leadership of the Liberal party appeared together yesterday to proclaim their willingness to support Mr. Dion for the dubious distinction of leading this sorry grouping, perhaps wisely recognizing the dangers of leading it themselves. They pointed out that the arrangement will just be temporary — the leadership race will continue as before. Mr. Dion is thus considered good enough to lead the country, but not good enough to head the Liberal party.

What’s more, he’s being deputed to lead the country during what may be the most critical six months in living memory, after which he would be dumped for someone else. His would-be successors could very well be sitting in his Cabinet, passing judgement on critical issues, while simultaneously campaigning to unseat this leader as inadequate.

The Liberals apparently believe Canadians will buy into this: an unstable government beholden to a separatist party for its survival, led by a man who was repudiated by voters less than two months ago, who will be given the reins through a critical period in the national history and then replaced with somebody to be identified later.

It doesn’t say much for the judgement of any of the three candidates vying to replace Mr. Dion. It suggests they have concluded it is better to sacrifice Mr. Dion and the interests of the country rather than sacrifice their own ambitions. If Mr. Dion fails in his rescue mission, presumably the coalition will fail as well; if he succeeds, why would we want to replace him with an untested successor?

Whether Governor-General Michaëlle Jean will allow it is an arresting question. The opposition has every right to defeat the government and try to replace it, but a grouping so unstable, unwieldy and beneficial to the cause of the separatists, headed by a temporary figure who lacks even the confidence of his own party, can hardly be said to be in the best interests of the country.

National Post

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