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Iggy would lead Liberal/NDP coalition


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...Watching the antics in Ottawa reminds me of watching the same cast of idiots that tend to run most student governments in various universities across the country. They have no sense of reality and live in their own little self-important worlds.

.....

I haven't even read the rest of your post but I do so agree with this part.

What a bumch of bozo's. They pull crap like this and manage to say with a straight face 'It's the will of the people'. The will of the people is that we send someone to the capital to do some honest work. Does anyone really see anything that has gone on in Ottawa over the last few days as honest work?

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The coalition gives me the shivers. Why not defeat the government and allow the votes decide who deserves to run the country? The coalition belief that they know better than the voters does piss me off! I never did subscribe to rule by divine right!

And here is another opinion, I hope he is wrong as I don't believe that the average citizens of Quebec harbour any desire to rule or control the rest of Canada

I don't like the coalition either....

Coalitions are part of many governments, why not let this one run it's course. We don't even know if the governor general will give in to their demands to allow the coalition.

An election will cost another 300 million $$, we just had one. A message was sent to the various parties and now it's time for everyone to put some water in their wine and start operating like the minority government that was elected. That means Dion doesn't his green shift, and Harper can not rule as if he were king.

Harper created this.... let him sort it out and make it right.... maybe someone else in his party can step up to the plate and guide Canada through the economy.

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Guest rattler

I don't like the coalition either....

Coalitions are part of many governments, why not let this one run it's course. We don't even know if the governor general will give in to their demands to allow the coalition.

An election will cost another 300 million $$, we just had one. A message was sent to the various parties and now it's time for everyone to put some water in their wine and start operating like the minority government that was elected. That means Dion doesn't his green shift, and Harper can not rule as if he were king.

Harper created this....  let him sort it out and make it right.... maybe someone else in his party can step up to the plate and guide Canada through the economy.

An election may cost us 300million, but the three horsemen could cost us billions. Damned if we do and damned if we don't.

I don't really think that the NDP, Liberals and BLOC will back off, they can taste the sweet rewards of power. Absolute power may corrupt but it is really neat(wish I had said that)!

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Support for the Conservatives is dropping quickly,

CBC was saying that in Québec, they went from 22% support to 15%. I doubt Ontario is going to be supporting the conservatives with the massive hits the auto sector is and will be taking.

So why an election? To end up with the same government we had prior to the first election?

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When Canadians cast their votes in the recent Federal election, nowhere was it mentioned that we were voting for a formal NDP/Bloc alliance - nor a Liberal/Bloc written agreement. That choice was NEVER on the ballot.

Distasteful as it may be, it's time for the Governor General to call another election - and at least give ALL Canadians the chance to decide if this is truly what they want.

Anything else is nothing more than a shameful power grab thinly disguised as "democracy in action".

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how would the problem be define in this case?

Is the problem the coalition?

Is the problem the instigator whose actions (in a minority government) caused this fiasco?

Is the problem the opposition party who were opposed to having their financing cut? Maybe they should get their funding cut, but in such a case, shouldn't that have been included in the party platform?

The coalition wasn't envisioned during the last election but the people who voted for the Bloc, Liberals and NDP might be better served by the coalition then they would be by the Conservatives who they did not vote for.(better being subjective in this case but if you are voting for a left wing party what is it that you want??) Now I am not saying this is a perfect mix but to someone who votes NDP(not me .... lol), the coalition will no doubt seem like a good thing. To the 37% who voted conservatives, it will seem like hell is approaching fast but that is a matter of perception.

As far as democracy is concerned, all these people were elected.... So they did not propose a coalition during election time.... it certainly wouldn't be the first time politicians throw a curve ball.... The only people who seem all flustered about this (my perception from this forum) are the people who voted Blue.

Éric

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Good God folks, let's not set our collective hair on fire. It isn't the end of the world.

Third World?! Have you completely lost your perspective and sensibilities, bean?

All manner of dire predictions almost certainly won't come true - it's politics, after all and not physics and nobody is a specialist.

A "disaster" is what happened in Mumbai for heavens' sake! A disaster is what the U.S. did to itself and the rest of the world. We have a Constitution in place and it is being followed. Let it be, let it unfold and have confidence in what we've built as a nation. Settle down, turn off the news, find some sales for Christmas, buy a friend an eggnog and celebrate the season and this country. Be thankful we don't have real disasters on our hands. This is going to go where it is going to go regardless of the adrenaline injections.

Finally a voice of reason. Part of the problem here is that most Canadians today do not understand our system of government. We do not elect a government. We elect MP's and whoever has the confidence of the House of Commons forms the government. That is usually the party with the most elected MP's. However, in a minority government it becomes all the more important that the confidence of the house is won. Usually by compromise and recognition that co-operation with all members of the house is an absolute necessity. Canadians like minority governments. Keeps us from having one group with too much control when we don't trust that they will follow the will of the citizenry. This is the case with the Harper (so-called) Conservatives. The vast majority of people don't trust him.

So we have a minority gov't that must rely on its opposition to get things enacted. The Cons used the BQ many times to get their legislation passed. To complain now is most hypocritical. The House has lost confidence in the Conservative MP's to represent Canadians and as is their constitutional right they have formed a coalition of the Liberal and NDP MP's with a written assurance from the Bloc to form a government for the next thirty months. There has been no legislation passed because the House has no confidence in the current government. So the call for an election is premature. Frankly if these three parties can agree to put differences aside to govern Canada for the best of the country we may well find that we are happy with this coalition. Congratulations to Stephen Harper for uniting the left. He will go down in history for uniting both the right and the left.

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wingjockey,

Today the TSE experienced the worst single day drop in history. That's no accident. In my opinion it is a direct result of the "trio" of parties that are continuing with this political game.

Wouldn't you agree that considering the current economic climate, this power grab by the trio is extremely ill-timed & not in the best interest of our Country?

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No I would not agree. The markets react to uncertainty. The fact that the Dow Jones had a similar drop was surely not predicated on the Canadian political situation but may have been affected by the meeting of OPEC and the situations in Mumbai and Thailand. Don't read too much into the market volatility. wink.gif

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Maybe now, if we have another election, some of the wingnuts on this forum as well as other parts of society will GET OFF THEIR FAT POMPOUS BUTTS AND VOTE.

Whoever did not vote in the last election bear as much if not more responsibility for this mess as those who did.

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The Globe and Mail today has a poll asking if the Governor General should accept the coalition government. Currently it is voting in favour. Also a columnist comments on the overwhelming response to this and most of it is decidedly against the political, very partisan approach of the Conservatives especially their leader. Already you have Facebook groups called FireHarper and the environmental group- voteforenvironment.ca who are most upset at the lack of action for stimulating the economy and environmental issues encouraging people to write their member to voice support for this coalition. The opposition parties have been overwhelmed with supportive emails etc. One thing that I have noticed - comments from right wingers always descend into name calling. Depressing and not Progressive Conservatives at all. The fact is that the vast majority of Canadians are moderate in their thinking. We look out for our neighbour. We are not all about the dollar and to hell with the planet. This message failed to reach Mr. Harper on any substantive level even though he said he got it. He couldn't resist the impulse to be nasty. Guess that is the gut feeling that 58% of Canadians said they didn't like. dry.gif

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The Bloc will be sitting on the side of Government that represents Canada. Their votes or their abstinence will make policy for the entire nation for at least 18 months.

Illegitimacy has never been spelled more simply. For Dion or Layton to go to bed with the Bloc will assure them both of never-again support from this voter.

And BTW, I voted for Harper this last time around.

My solution? Either what was suggested on The National tonight - Harper approaches the GG and asks that the "coalition" be allowed to form a government, then sit back and choose his moment in the future,

or

Harper should resign immediately citing a constitutional crisis and asking his 2ic (traditionally that would be the Minister of Finance = Flaherty) to assume the role of temporary leader.

Who knows where that would take us, either option. But where we're headed right now is even more vile.

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This whole political mess is pathetic. I don't care what side you're on, it's pathetic.

Exactly! It's PATHETIC.

Despite the expense, despite the angst, despite the inconvenience...all Canadians need to become involved here.

The G/G must call an election.

The main point of this election? A simple question:

Do YOU support the idea of a formal alliance between ANY federal party (PC, LIB, Green or NDP) and a SEPARATIST Bloc Quebecois party? Do YOU believe such a coalition to be in the best interests of Canada - and our future?

I think we Canadians have a right to vote on that question...

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Guest rattler

Wingjockey, it appears the interest in the poll is small, at least as yet.

Globe & Mail poll

Do you support the Liberal-NDP coalition's bid for power?

Yes 56% 730 votes

No 44% 578 votes

The CTV poll, which is now closed, about the same subject yielded:

An NDP-Liberal coalition would:

Reflect the will of the people 4675 votes (27 %)

Be nothing more than a power grab 12844 votes (73 %)

Total Votes: 17519

Here is an interesting point of view on the subject:

David Frum: Only the losers will survive Ottawa's game of competitive suicide
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/12/01/david-frum-only-the-losers-will-survive-ottawa-s-game-of-competitive-suicide.aspx

And another "Democracy or a Bloodless Coup"

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...201?hub=QPeriod

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Guest rattler

You do know Daggar is not a right-winger don't you?

but he is a very angry almost senior citizen ....... or should I say he is going through his middle aged crisis and of course the Conservative did screw up his income trusts......biggrin.gif Mind you I don't see the three horsemen changing the income trust legislation. cool.gif

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Just remember - that is the Toronto Globe and Mail.

Any resemblance to the ideas, interests and thoughts of the ROC is incidental.

Just refer to the national post or the national enquirer for your info will you? That way the bubble you live in is less likely to burst...

You don't have to worry about the ROC when you hold most of the population....

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Maybe now, if we have another election, some of the wingnuts on this forum as well as other parts of society will GET OFF THEIR FAT POMPOUS BUTTS AND VOTE.

Whoever did not vote in the last election bear as much if not more responsibility for this mess as those who did.

On the contrary.

This little political escapade has likely driven more people away from the voting booth.

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What DID the coalition give up to bring the Bloc alongside? What will it cost? No one's talking...

Most of the people on this forum are involved with aviation. We all know that aviation is a business of reducing risks and maximizing gains. (Okay, okay, I know that's a simplification; please bear with me.)

In simple terms, I think we'd all agree that many times we are forced to moderate the former in order to improve the latter...

This present fiasco in Parliament is similar. Simply put, in order to 'take', one must also 'give'.

But we also all know there's no such thing as a free ride. Ergo: there is NO WAY that the Bloc (A SEPARATIST Party, in case anyone's forgotten) will not gain - and at Canada's expense - by this proposed coalition. They (the Bloc) would be derelict in their duty to the Quebec 'nation' if they did NOT demand the moon.

The Liberals and the NDP, have sold their - or rather OUR - first-born in their quest for power.

IMHO, there is no reason whatsoever for ANY federally-minded party to enter an alliance with a secessionist party - let alone a FORMAL coalition. To actually do so exposes the parties involved for the rabid opportunists that they are.

The G/G MUST ask the people to decide if this is what we want.

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