The shame and disgrace that is Stephen Harper

[Maverick]

I believe you are misinterpreting the western sentiment dagger. Most if not all the people I've spoken to about this are angry at the whole situation. Harper for being stupid and the other three for running what boils down to a Coup d'état. I am aware that in the strictest sense this is legal. That does not make it right and it certainly isn't ethical. This type of parliamentary system was designed for a two-party system where an overthrow of a government would have to have the consent of at least some of the ruling party members. The situation we have now is akin to the Italian parliament and we know how well that works!

The optics of it are horrible, it looks like the opposition parties are crying over spilt milk.

Heaven forbid they should have to beat the street and actually raise their own money!

[chockalicious]

As for what constituents think, this may be viewed in Calgary as a disgusting three way, but in the rest of the country, it's a lot more complex because what the coalition stands for on policy is a lot more in synch with the times and with what people in most of the country believe is necessary right now, i.e. ,major stimulus.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong or demonizing those that don't agree with you?

[dagger]

Do you ever get tired of being wrong or demonizing those that don't agree with you?

Seems like a factual statement. Although maybe I'm wrong about everybody in Alberta being against the coalition. Around these parts, there is a lot of different views, but the most salient is that the coalition might be a good idea with a different leader. But in terms of the financial aspects, a lot of people believe that is what canada needs.

Maybe you don't agree, but telling you what a lot of people in these parts feel hardly counts as demonizing you.

[chockalicious]

Seems like a factual statement. Although maybe I'm wrong about everybody in Alberta being against the coalition. Around these parts, there is a lot of different views, but the most salient is that the coalition might be a good idea with a different leader. But in terms of the financial aspects, a lot of people believe that is what canada needs.

Maybe you don't agree, but telling you what a lot of people in these parts feel hardly counts as demonizing you.

Dagger you have been going on about Harper on here for as long as I can remember. In the past you have been dismissive of any concerns expressed by people outside of you narrow world view.

If it was about economic stimulus than the nitwit coalition should have been able to give one example at their press conference.

In your post you claim to be speaking for the rest of Canada yet it hardly seems like the country is united one way or the other.

The fact that you get to throw in a snide remark about Calgary comes as no suprise.

I think you will find that many people in Alberta have a problem with how Harper has acted. It just seems you are incapable of seeing that there is culpability on both sides. In all of your political comments you display a lack of nuance or understanding because all you do is scream HARPER = BAD like a shrill east end washerwoman. It looks like you have no capacity to see any world view outside of your blinkered realm.

[dagger]

I believe you are misinterpreting the western sentiment dagger. Most if not all the people I've spoken to about this are angry at the whole situation. Harper for being stupid and the other three for running what boils down to a Coup d'état. I am aware that in the strictest sense this is legal. That does not make it right and it certainly isn't ethical. This type of parliamentary system was designed for a two-party system where an overthrow of a government would have to have the consent of at least some of the ruling party members. The situation we have now is akin to the Italian parliament and we know how well that works!

The optics of it are horrible, it looks like the opposition parties are crying over spilt milk.

Heaven forbid they should have to beat the street and actually raise their own money!

It's not a coup d'etat. It may be a weak coalition, but it represents two thirds of the electorate and more than 50% of the seats, and in many ways, and it's clear that Harper was trying to sandbag the opposition so what choice did they have. And coup d'etat is a ridiculous description. It was well within parliamentary convention. I've also said that if Harper leaves, another Tory leader probably would have the confidence of the House, and that might be the best outcome for the country - better than the coalition solution IMO.

Listen, get it through your gourd that Harper set a trap. His goal was to humble/humiliate/emasculate the opposition, or force it to trigger an election he could pin on them (He couldn't very well pull the plug himself, now could he?)

He wanted another go at Dion, hoping the broke opposition would be easier to beat, that somehow he would achieve on Jan 27 what he couldn't achieve on Oct. 14

He didn't respect the will of the people, but never expected the opposition to stand up to him.

His refusal to work with the minority parliament was the attempt at a coup d'etat if you want to use that inappropriate term. The opposition response, awkward and maybe ugly as it is, given the personalities involved, nevertheless was a response to an undemocratic act.

Now, the majority of Canadians who always suspected Harper of having a secret agenda are sure of it.

He cannot win a majority any time soon, so an election would be even more pointless.

The money thing is a red herring you and his apologists are raising to cover up his poop. All analysts agree that if changing the funding system is to happen, it has to be part of an election platform, and introduced with the kind of timeframe that would allow the other parties to prepare for it. It isn't necessarily wrong as a concept, but the way it was introduced was not to change the system but to cripple the opposition or have it trigger an election.

Heaven forbid he should have tried to give us good government tackling the worst economic crisis in seven decades.

Woxof essentually guaranteed that Harper would give us good government.

[DEFCON]

Perhaps we should take the present political situation as a warning?

Is it time for Canada to revisit the very nature of our national election processes? Does the "Party" system as constituted favour the people of a democracy or another master?

[Guest woxof]

Woxof essentually guaranteed that Harper would give us good government.

I'd say that is what we got. Portrait Museum.....cut. Our money going to political parties....proposed to be cut. Our wonderful striking PS(although it has been a while) .....no strikes for three years while I assume they are cut back.

Good work Stephen.

[dagger]

I'd say that is what we got. Portrait Museum.....cut. Our money going to political parties....proposed to be cut. Our wonderful striking PS(although it has been a while) .....no strikes for three years while I assume they are cut back.

Good work Stephen.

And he's backpedalled from all but the Portrait Museum.

[Fido]

...striking PS(although it has been a while) .........

Part of the Post Office was on strike a week or so ago. Have they settled?

[Guest woxof]

And he's backpedalled from all but the Portrait Museum.

But it shows he was on the right track. Of course as they say, the lifeline of my money is not the issue...Because(and I just love saying this)....They will say ANYTHING to get in power.

Whereas the Conservatives will only say ALMOST ANYTHING to stay in power

Woxof....acknowledging Hypocrisy on all sides.

[FA@AC]

But it shows he was on the right track.

How can a PM who has had to have Parliament prorogued in order to avoid defeat in a confidence motion, who has backpeddled from everything he intended to do a week ago and who has given an economic update that has been ridiculed by every economist in the country have been on the right track?

[Fido]

How can a PM who has had to have Parliament prorogued in order to avoid defeat in a confidence motion, who has backpeddled from everything he intended to do a week ago and who has given an economic update that has been ridiculed by every economist in the country have been on the right track?

Prorogued to avoid defeat, maybe. We will never know.

Prorogued to allow tempers to cool. Definitely.

Every economist in Canada? Prove it.

Or just the ones the Liberal Economists and the NDP Economists?

[Guest woxof]

How can a PM who has had to have Parliament prorogued in order to avoid defeat in a confidence motion, who has backpeddled from everything he intended to do a week ago and who has given an economic update that has been ridiculed by every economist in the country have been on the right track?

Don't like? Call Rideau Hall. Personally, I think she made the wrong decision.

Then again. How many economists would ridicule a coalition of socalists, separatists and a farther left than normal Liberal party?......Well, not the UAW economists.

[FA@AC]

Prorogued to avoid defeat, maybe. We will never know.

Prorogued to allow tempers to cool. Definitely.

Every economist in Canada? Prove it.

Or just the ones the Liberal Economists and the NDP Economists?

If we're to wait for the temper of our hissy-fit-prone PM to cool, we'll be waiting a long time.

As for economists and the Dear Leader's fiscal update, just read what Robert Fairholm (no Liberal he) had to say about it today.

Do you buy Flaherty's projections of surpluses for the next couple of years? Do you know of a single economist who does?

[Fido]

Do you know of a single economist who does?

Uhhhh. Stephen Harper?

[FA@AC]

Uhhhh. Stephen Harper?

LOL.

I rest my case.

[Cargo Agent]

If we're to wait for the temper of our hissy-fit-prone PM to cool, we'll be waiting a long time.

As for economists and the Dear Leader's fiscal update, just read what Robert Fairholm (no Liberal he) had to say about it today.

Do you buy Flaherty's projections of surpluses for the next couple of years? Do you know of a single economist who does?

Have you read the Fiscal Update yourself or just the media and Liberal coverage?

[handyman]

All this may not matter with the discontent in the Liberal caucus. All it takes is a few of these unhappy MP's to cross and the storm is over.

[DEFCON]

Rattler

So-called "reforestation" ignores the "natural" cycles though which a "forest" matures. In effect, with reforestation schemes, we have transformed our forests into a "plantation".

There's a piece of land in Ontario lying between Red Lake, Thunder Bay and Fort Francis that was home to several mills. "Sustainable harvest through reforestation" has been the BS line the industry thrust upon a dim & unsuspecting public.

Today, virtually all the mills in this area have closed for good. It seems there was a problem finding wood within a distance that allowed for economic transport to feed the mills? So much for natural & economic sustainability in at least that huge piece of Canada!

[Guest PowerAdmin]

This thread has been split with all posts after the one above moved to a new thread entitled "Industries in Trouble" so as to highlight the conversations regarding industries in Canada and the problems they face.