chockalicious Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 I'd really like to understand where you're coming from. You say you have no problem with a guy who didn't burn any bridges returning to the fold because the powers that be are OK with him, but a fellow that questioned the way WS does things, left, and wanted back would not be welcomed back by you. What, in your mind, makes one candidate more worthy than the other of your forgiving attitude? I think it is pretty obvious. One guy did things the right way. By not burning bridges it means he/she did things the right way and probably was respectful of the people and the process as he/she departed. Past behavior is an indicator of future performance. Their past behavior would indicate that when they came back they would buy in to the program. The person that flamed away as they left would not be welcome back because of their behavior on the way out. WS is not for everyone and I don't think many would argue the point that it is better both for WS and the individual if the person leaves rather than stay and be unhappy. Seems obvious to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moeman Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Fair enough. I can see how a non-believer in the WS way, someone who doesn't buy into the program, would not be welcomed back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canus Chinookus Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Fair enough. I can see how a non-believer in the WS way, someone who doesn't buy into the program, would not be welcomed back. I'm getting a little tired of your references to a cult. Grow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canus Chinookus Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Ok Moeman, sorry, I finally understand what your problem with WJ is. I went back and read some of your previous posts, and I get it now. You're an AC FA hellbent on union things. My apologies, now that I know 'what' I'm dealing with, I'll respond more appropriately next time. Have a nicer day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moeman Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 You couldn't be more wrong about me. I'm actually disillussioned about the whole union thing. For a while I thought I could affect change within the union, back in the late '80's early 90's, but left soon after with a sour taste. What I find particularly interesting is the internal, or should I say public, WS attitude about what constitutes an acceptable level of performance within the WS system. Your posts piqued my interest, that's all. It is a very interesting subject for someone who is not an insider. I'm no hardcore unionist, trust me on that. I probably go about my day to day activities in a way that would make me a valued WS employee too, but unfortunately I could never buy into the system and would spend my entire time there holding my tongue. At AC I don' t subscribe to the unionists' view of all things bad about AC. I actually love my job and respect those for whom I work. I don't love my union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canus Chinookus Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 WJ empowers their people to speak up, it's encouraged. It's one thing to speak up and say it like it is, but to have a bad attitude, to bring everyone down around you is not cool. If you're not having a good time, enjoying your work why would you stay? WHY would you come back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moeman Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 WJ empowers their people to speak up, it's encouraged. That's where we disagree, and I only disagree with you on the speaking out part because of the conversations I've had with many current and ex-WS employees. Those who aren't convinced about the WS way don't speak kindly about how WS reinforces the WS culture. Those who are deeply committed don't speak of it at all, and I know a few of both. I actually envy you somewhat because when I joined AC in the early 80's we considered ourselves a family. I still feel that way, but unfortunately due to attrition and a merger we no longer have that many who still feel the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canus Chinookus Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I just don't know what to say Moe. What you hear from people just isn't the norm. Yes, there are some ex-employees who are bent out of shape for whatever reason, but I have to wonder what the circumstances are. For those who are still employed here have 2 options. Stay, enjoy the ride, or get out and go somewhere where you'll be happier. WJ isn't for everyone, just like AC isn't for everyone, just like Transat isn't for anyone... etc... WJ has a great culture, and I'm happy to be a part of it. It's the first company I've ever worked for(and my resume is substantial, let me tell you) where the company gives a crap about the employees, who in turn, give a crap about the guests flying on 'their' airplane. WJ has given the average joe the power to make a decision on how best to handle a situation with a guest, instead of passing the buck to some operator in India. It's simple stuff. The sense of ownership we all have, whether my actual ownership may only amount to a single seat on 1 of our planes, it doesn't matter. signed, a believer. PS, if you want to stay credible in my eyes, I'd appreciate it if you stopped making innuendos all the time and started giving some hard examples, and not just rumors either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Just curious..do you guys ever refer to the people you carry in the aircraft as "passengers" or "pax", when out of the public eye?? I have flown WJ and I have no beef other than this "Guest" thing. I just can't get my head around people paying to sit in a "tube" being called "guests". Let us pray you never have a bad incident but if you did, would the PR people put a release out saying X number of "guests" were Killed and "Y" number of "guests" were injured?? Is the word "guest" used in all correspondence, verbal/written/PAs etc?? Just me, I guess, a plain old "passenger". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I don't refer to them as guests. I prefer to call them customers.. and I'll refer to them as passengers to friends who aren't familiar with airlines or the industry. Nobody calls our executives "Big Shots" anymore.. I'm sure we'll grow out of some of the other terms we use as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Nobody calls our executives "Big Shots" anymore.. Is that what they were known as?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60N30W Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 just like Transat isn't for anyone... etc... CC I am hoping your comment about Air Transat is a typo! If not well............ Regards, 60N30w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canus Chinookus Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 CC I am hoping your comment about Air Transat is a typo! If not well............ Regards, 60N30w Transat is for everyone? I heard no. Just like Jazz isn't for everyone, just like water bombing isn't for everyone. I'm not sure what your problem is. Oh, I suppose you're correcting me for saying Transat instead of Air Transat? Kinda petty isn't it? Were you confused about the point I was trying to make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canus Chinookus Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Just curious..do you guys ever refer to the people you carry in the aircraft as "passengers" or "pax", when out of the public eye?? I have flown WJ and I have no beef other than this "Guest" thing. I just can't get my head around people paying to sit in a "tube" being called "guests". Let us pray you never have a bad incident but if you did, would the PR people put a release out saying X number of "guests" were Killed and "Y" number of "guests" were injured?? Is the word "guest" used in all correspondence, verbal/written/PAs etc?? Just me, I guess, a plain old "passenger". If your only beef is being referred to as a guest, then I'll rest easy we're doing a decent job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Hey Chinookus, you wrote: "just like Transat isn't for anyone".. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CD Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 just like Transat isn't for anyone... CC... The problem was in your original post. The actual word you used is bolded and underlined now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Just curious..do you guys ever refer to the people you carry in the aircraft as "passengers" or "pax", when out of the public eye?? I have flown WJ and I have no beef other than this "Guest" thing. I just can't get my head around people paying to sit in a "tube" being called "guests". Let us pray you never have a bad incident but if you did, would the PR people put a release out saying X number of "guests" were Killed and "Y" number of "guests" were injured?? Is the word "guest" used in all correspondence, verbal/written/PAs etc?? Just me, I guess, a plain old "passenger". Looks like it is time for our bi-monthly "guest" discussion here on AEF. All internal communications refer to "guests." WS has Guest Services departments, not customer service. The executives and VP in charge of the teams have "guest" in their titles. WS speaks of "guest count" not PAX internally in their communication. I am assuming that when a restaurant gives you your guest check or a hotel gives you your guest folio you have the same level of consternation. I disagree with CEh's assertion that we will "grow out" of certain terms. The termas are part of the culture - People Department instead of HR for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Consternation; a sudden, alarming amazement or dread that results in utter confusion; dismay. Sheesh, the guy was just asking a question.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex 9A Guy Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 The "guest" question gets asked on this forum with amazing regularity. I fail to see why anyone has an issue with this. When you stay at a hotel you are called and considered a guest and presumably you also pay for your stay how is this any different to WestJet calling you a guest and you having to pay for your ticket. One of our founders was involved in the hotel industry prior to WestJet and my understanding is that is where the reference originated. Hopefully this gets put to rest for another 3 months now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 alarming amazement or dread that results in utter confusion = I just can't get my head around people paying to sit in a "tube" being called "guests" Hope this hel;ps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60N30W Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Transat is for everyone? I heard no. Just like Jazz isn't for everyone, just like water bombing isn't for everyone. I'm not sure what your problem is. Oh, I suppose you're correcting me for saying Transat instead of Air Transat? Kinda petty isn't it? Were you confused about the point I was trying to make? CC, I don't have a problem and was not being petty about the Air Transat vs. Transat thing, not really a big issue for us. My point and others seem to have seen it also is that you said in your post: "just like Transat isn't for anyone... etc..." I am wondering if that was a typo or do you have something against Air Transat/Transat? Regards, 60N30W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canus Chinookus Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 CC... The problem was in your original post. The actual word you used is bolded and underlined now. OH! HAHAAA! yeah, typo... brain lock more like. Sorry, I completely missed the point you were trying to make. Damn the internet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I am assuming that when a restaurant gives you your guest check or a hotel gives you your guest folio you have the same level of consternation "Consternation"???? Shorts a little tight?? Just asked a question....you keep writing like that and people are going to put you in the "kool-aid" group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Shorts too tight...Guest again mister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 I know most people involved in Newair... Good luck, and in the words of Clive, if your not having fun.. Your fired..... Take that for what it's worth, and good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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