Thebean Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 A summary of everything that makes Sunwing a soon to be ex - airline. Posted on: http://www.carsurvey.org/air/review_14955.html I just had my first and last experience with Sunwing airlines. I booked with them as they were $300 cheaper then the next, but they ended up getting the $300 extra for the tiny amount our bags were overweight. The flight to Toronto was an hour late leaving; the staff were unfriendly and looked like they hadn't slept for days. On top of that I was crammed into a seat with my knees jammed into the back of the seat in front of me, I'm 6'1" and I have no idea how anyone taller than me could fit in a seat on one of these planes. On the return flight I thought... hoped they would redeem themselves. Nope they stooped even lower!! It started with a $220 fine for 11kg over the ridiculous 20 kg baggage allowance. Then my wife and I couldn't sit together as they were overbooked. We were told we had seats one in front of the other, but when entering the plane we realized we weren't even close to each other. Then the part that made me really upset with the service or lack thereof, the meal. The food was horrible; they gave us a bun and had no butter and then we had to wait an hour just to get a drink. Sure they gave out wine with the meal, but I don’t drink wine, I asked for some water and was told I must wait for the drink service. A half an hour later they start serving coffee and tea, another beverage I don’t drink, again I ask for water and was told I need to wait. Finally an hour later the full drink service came out. Why the hell should I have to wait an hour to get just a drink of water? First impressions mean a great deal, but second impressions just help solidify the first impressions. In conclusion I will highly recommend others not to fly with Sunwing as they may become dehydrated, permanently stuck in a seat, in a destination with very little belongings, broke, lied to and most of all left feeling unappreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Yes, $500 in excess baggage charges for a Toronto-Vancouver RT is a little rich. I wonder how many people get dinged by that. Of course people - even you this time - only look at the fare and rarely at all the little traps that discounters throw at you. Oasis had a similar baggage limit on YVR-HKG. It's not hard to imagine that they made as much money on those charges than on the flight itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockwave Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 So Bean is 6'1 packs a whopping suitcase and doesn't like coffee/tea or wine and deems this enough to brand someone as an ex-airline? For someone who advocates facts and numbers I found that a little out of character for you Bean. You mention you were crammed and that made me wonder how many seats Sunwing has in their A/C and what that does to their casm going forward? Look on the bright side buddy at least you had a life jacket below you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsgas Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 They still managed to lure you away from the real airlines and collect as much money from you in the process. Sounds like that cash goes to their bottom line and It takes plenty of cash to keep those airplanes flying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 20 kg limit - the least TC allows. Maybe time for more regulation!!!???? Should cost them if they lose/misplace a bag ( a la the UK)....etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockwave Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Posted by TheBean under the "Zoom in Trouble" topic.......make your own assumptions. "I have zero sympathy for the bottom feeders who are going to claim they are being "gouged" to get back home. Boo hoo. Had they forked out a few bucks more to fly an airline that was viable versus bottom feeding on a shoestring operation, they wouldn't be in the pickle in the first place. They have only themselves to blame. Caveat Emptor. There will be more. Someone's wings are a little too close to the sun......." Bean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp fa Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Did Bean even write that review? It's posted on carsurvey.org. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I don't think he implied that it was his trip - the way I read it it's someone else's review of a Sunwing flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebean Posted August 30, 2008 Author Share Posted August 30, 2008 I don't think he implied that it was his trip - the way I read it it's someone else's review of a Sunwing flight. The Bean on Sunwing? Flying from YVR to YYZ? Umm....I don't think so. I'll leave you to guess why that is an utterly preposterous thought. Think, Ricky, think.... The review was posted on another site. You'll find an alarming proportion of the reviews on that site for Sunwing are pretty much the same. If you take out the reviews of SG immediately prior to their collapse, you'll see that Sunwing has a higher proportion of bad reviews than Jetsgo ever had. That is not good, when you consider that an airline is a customer service business. It's pretty easy to spot bogus reviews, be they of any airline. The detail never really adds up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 As with all posts that quote from another site, one should give that site the courtesy of giving the Goto..... Gives credit to the author and avoids the charge of plagiarism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockwave Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Ok bean you had me worried there for a second........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinnaker Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Ok bean you had me worried there for a second........ Yeah... I don't trust anyone who doesn't drink coffee... or wine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bored Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 From a long time lerker who doesn’t frequent this site much. Bean, some quick questions if you will? Why was Sunwing Airlines born? Do you think Sunwing wants to run a summer Canadian domestic schedule or are forced by regulations? What seaons(s) do Canadian tour operators make their money? Is it possible that the airline side can lose money while the tour side is highly profitable? How much do you think Sunwing is paying for the lease rates on the airplanes operated by Sunwing, XL, EuroCypria and Transavia in comparison to WestJet? Do you think Sunwing has a competitive edge over Skyservice, AirTransat, WestJet Vacations or AirCanada Vacations in terms of seat cost? (I don’t need a subjective spiel on opportunity cost, we can save that for later) Is it really your position that Sunwing is going out of business because a passenger had to pay extra to take 68 pounds of luggage half way across Canada? Does it make any sense that Sunwing Airlines is for sale for 21 million? Occam’s razor comes to mind. I believe last year you predicted the same demise of Sunwing, just around the time when they were handing out 15% bonuses. Would you care to pick an exact date when you think Sunwing will be out of business? We can use that date for a friendly wager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIP Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Yes, $500 in excess baggage charges for a Toronto-Vancouver RT is a little rich. I wonder how many people get dinged by that. Of course people - even you this time - only look at the fare and rarely at all the little traps that discounters throw at you. Oasis had a similar baggage limit on YVR-HKG. It's not hard to imagine that they made as much money on those charges than on the flight itself. What would Purolator have charged ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 I flew Sunwing YYZ-VRA-YYZ last winter with my wife and 7 year old. Despite not having much leg room the flight was great. Meals were fine, service was friendly. No complaints and would fly them again if the price was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebean Posted September 1, 2008 Author Share Posted September 1, 2008 From a long time lerker who doesn’t frequent this site much. Bean, some quick questions if you will? Why was Sunwing Airlines born? Do you think Sunwing wants to run a summer Canadian domestic schedule or are forced by regulations? What seaons(s) do Canadian tour operators make their money? Is it possible that the airline side can lose money while the tour side is highly profitable? How much do you think Sunwing is paying for the lease rates on the airplanes operated by Sunwing, XL, EuroCypria and Transavia in comparison to WestJet? Do you think Sunwing has a competitive edge over Skyservice, AirTransat, WestJet Vacations or AirCanada Vacations in terms of seat cost? (I don’t need a subjective spiel on opportunity cost, we can save that for later) Is it really your position that Sunwing is going out of business because a passenger had to pay extra to take 68 pounds of luggage half way across Canada? Does it make any sense that Sunwing Airlines is for sale for 21 million? Occam’s razor comes to mind. I believe last year you predicted the same demise of Sunwing, just around the time when they were handing out 15% bonuses. Would you care to pick an exact date when you think Sunwing will be out of business? We can use that date for a friendly wager. You tell me how much cash they have, I'll tell you, within 90 days, when their last flight will operate. $21m and it's all yours. Crazy Ivan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIP Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Crazy Ivan. Watching "The Hunt For Red October" today Beano ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebean Posted September 2, 2008 Author Share Posted September 2, 2008 Watching "The Hunt For Red October" today Beano ??? Nope. Used to describe the strategy of an airline in trouble..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockwave Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Remember this one bean? You posted it... QUOTE (CanadaEH @ Jun 23 2008, 07:14 AM) $99 seats (no fuel surcharge, either) from YYZ to all Canadian destinations. http://www.sunwing.ca/imgWW/WW_2000seats@99_NFS_06202008.jpg Need....gasp......cash.....gasp.....now...... I wonder who he's trying to sell Sunwing too now? Gotta love 29 inch pitch on a 5 hr redeye. That'll keep 'em coming back. As far as "That'll keep em coming back" how do you explain going from 1 airplane to 15 in 3 years to pick all the high yield winter charter dough? And Bean you know full well that come summer time Sunwing deploys to Europe and keeps a skeleton Domestic schedule plus charters to the Carribean in order to satisfy the provisions of its OC. All this at a CASM that keeps you up at night me thinks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bored Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 The hunt for Red October, great movie. "One ping Bean, one ping only" Bean, I appreciate your posts and the knowledge within. Concerning Sunwing all you can go on is what you speculate. Your basing your assumptions on preconceived ideals of domestic carriers and not giving due consideration for Sunwing as an enitity. If this discussion were based on an airline operating like Sunwing 12 months of the year with nothing else holding it in place I would not disagree. Sunwing Airlines was conceived for one reason, to service the tour company. Prior to the airline they relied on Jetsgo and KFC for lift. Difficult to control costs, difficult projecting schedules, impossible to control service and the list goes on. Bean your an accountant and numbers never lie. So whats my problem with your premise? You have absolutely NO idea if the tour side is profitable, ergo your position is mute. 21 million you say? Did you ever invest in a cross-shredder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpperDeck Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 You have absolutely NO idea if the tour side is profitable, ergo your position is mute. What the heck does that mean? Is Bean's position "incapable of speech"? You don't mean "moot", do you? If so, the word is not properly used since it essentially means that the issue debated has been rendered irrelevant by reason of other circumstances; ie a discussion as to the profitability of Sunwings continuing profitability would now be moot since it is no longer in business. Perhaps...."Bean....since there are two sides to this particular equation and you have knowledge as to only one side, you cannot reasonably offer a conclusion as to the result." Does that work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 I think you meant to say a Zoom discussion would be moot. That other one is still runnin'. ...Or are you breaking news here now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bored Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Sorry UpperDeck, you are correct. It was the wrong word and several other sentences would have fit more appropriately. Bean please disregard my statement and use UpperDeck's, its much more eloquent then mine. ...."Bean....since there are two sides to this particular equation and you have knowledge as to only one side, you cannot reasonably offer a conclusion as to the result." UpperDeck The AE forum Sunwing thread, page 2 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebean Posted September 2, 2008 Author Share Posted September 2, 2008 What the heck does that mean? Is Bean's position "incapable of speech"? You don't mean "moot", do you? If so, the word is not properly used since it essentially means that the issue debated has been rendered irrelevant by reason of other circumstances; ie a discussion as to the profitability of Sunwings continuing profitability would now be moot since it is no longer in business. Perhaps...."Bean....since there are two sides to this particular equation and you have knowledge as to only one side, you cannot reasonably offer a conclusion as to the result." Does that work? As long as the business model includes using big aluminum tubes powered by CFM / GE / Rolls Royce units and rely upon people paying to cover the costs by purchasing seats on the above, it doesn't really matter what the model is. Alarm bells always ring when I am told, "but our model is different" or "our marketplace is different by virtue of a line on a map" ...... Guess what. It isn't. Costs don't significantly change. Cramming 189 seats on to -800 will lower costs a little, but it's false economy. One could probably achieve the same savings simply by owning the fleet rather than paying IFLC/GECAS their margins, or not paying out the huge commissions to the TA community essentially as bribes to steer business their way. Then again, that's the only reason they book outfits like Sunwing. The lesson has been learnt countless times before by reviewing who failed and who's survived in the marketplace and critically reviewing the reasons why. There are always those who think they've come up with something better. Ever wonder why WJ changed from 125 seats to 120 seats on the -200's within a year or two of launch? Or why WJ uses 136 seats on a -700? Or why WJ has been constantly ranked top 3 in Canada for customer service for all retail - type operations? Or why WJ is able to continue to profitably grow, and have the numbers be confirmed by audited results? It's so simple, but no one has figured it out and if they have, they have been completely incapable, unwilling or unable to implement it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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