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Is it just me, or.....


Guest FA_AC
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Guest rattler

Of course the staff who have the duty of stocking the seat back supplies are blameless??????? Are the supplies simply not available (to be placed in the seat backs) or is the staff missing or ???????????????????

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Guest FA_AC
Of course the staff who have the duty of stocking the seat back supplies are blameless??????? Are the supplies simply not available (to be placed in the seat backs) or is the staff missing or ???????????????????

I believe that they are blameless, Rattler. They're the same people who load pillows and blankets for us, but pillows and blankets have frequently not been in stock for them lately. The sickbag situation is probably similar to that and to departing the UK on a full flight with only 3 cans of tonic water available for 207 passengers for many of whom gin & tonic is a preferred drink. smile.gif

It's bad.

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Guest rattler
I believe that they are blameless, Rattler. They're the same people who load pillows and blankets for us, but pillows and blankets have frequently not been in stock for them lately. The sickbag situation is probably similar to that and to departing the UK on a full flight with only 3 cans of tonic water available for 207 passengers for many of whom gin & tonic is a preferred drink. smile.gif

It's bad.

I was just curious. In the good old days (whenever the heck that was) some carriers had a catering check list that itemized the consumables loaded and that checked prior to the passengers boarding Who is responsible today to ensure that the necessary supplies are loaded? If the loading is deficient, are the cabin staff alerted? Does AirCanada carry pursers on their international flights who have that responsibility or??

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I don't have too many complaints about Air Canada - although I have been on some flights where they were simply out of everything... including ice. I was also on an A319 where the program being shown on the drop-down screens was so fuzzy as to be unwatchable and might as well have been turned off.

Although, I have seen some Delta and Alaska Airlines jets that make the most abused Air Canada cabin look great.

Ofcourse, I don't have very high expectations. Just get my ass to its destination, and maybe give me a can of pop along the way.

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FA, I would send your post, verbatim, to 'Monte's blog'. The guy has got to be told directly. Passing the information one level up virtually guarantees that it will be intercepted by the same mid level, terrified sycophant that caused the problem in the first place.

'Monte, we have a problem. Let me spare you the cost of Ipsos-Reid. Here is what is going on'. And then let him have it.

Vs

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Guest FA_AC
I was just curious. In the good old days (whenever the heck that was) some carriers had a catering check list that itemized the consumables loaded and that checked prior to the passengers boarding Who is responsible today to ensure that the necessary supplies are loaded? If the loading is deficient, are the cabin staff alerted? Does AirCanada carry pursers on their international flights who have that responsibility or??

Turnaround times are short nowardays. While this, of course, is a good thing, it doesn't give us much time at all to check provisioning. We have several safety-related duties to carry out upon boarding. We don't have a check list of provisions or any such thing, but we normally check that the correct number of meals has been boarded and that we have been supplied with headsets and lav supplies but that's about it. By the time we do that, pax are usually boarding and we're then required to be monitoring aisles and exits, so don't have much time for anything other than safety related stuff until after takeoff. Most of us try at least to spot check to ensure that duty free brochures, air sickness bags and other cabin amenities have been provided. If we discover that they're missing, we call a place called STOC. STOC is usually up on what's available at the base and what isn't, and if the missing supplies are available (most frequently lately, they haven't been), STOC decides whether they can be delivered to the aircraft before its scheduled departure time, and if not whether to delay the flight or to dispatch it without the requested supplies. While anyone can make a mistake, I find that those who are responsible to ensure that necessary supplies are loaded almost never fail to load them if they are available. The problem nowadays is that many things that are supposed to be made available to them aren't made available to them. Management, I guess, is responsible for that.

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Guest FA_AC
FA, I would send your post, verbatim, to 'Monte's blog'. The guy has got to be told directly. Passing the information one level up virtually guarantees that it will be intercepted by the same mid level, terrified sycophant that caused the problem in the first place.

'Monte, we have a problem. Let me spare you the cost of Ipsos-Reid. Here is what is going on'. And then let him have it.

Vs

Good idea, and I might, although I'd probably tone it down a little.

I'm starting to buy in to your theory about the uselessness of passing information up one level. I have actually already sent polite e-mails to two people at IFS management, but neither of them has been interested enough to reply. This is what leads me to think that nobody in management cares. It's disappointing.

Thanks a lot for your suggestion. Keep your eye on the blog. wink.gif

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Guest rattler
Good idea, and I might, although I'd probably tone it down a little.

I'm starting to buy in to your theory about the uselessness of passing information up one level. I have actually already sent polite e-mails to two people at IFS management, but neither of them has been interested enough to reply. This is what leads me to think that nobody in management cares. It's disappointing.

Thanks a lot for your suggestion. Keep your eye on the blog. wink.gif

thanks for the additional info. Bumping the report up more than one level is then def. the way to go. The blog appears to be the avenue you should go down. Cheers and good luck.

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FA, of course, send only what you are comfortable with. Although, since grooming seems to be a hot button with this guy, make sure he understands just what the failure to stock bags did to his grooming stats.

As for whether or not the next level cares, consider this: I spend a lot of my time dealing with those who influence change, not just at AC. I would rather deal with someone who doesn't care but is smart enough to see what's in it for them, than deal with someone who is caring but catatonic with fear of management reprisal. Sadly, I think we have a very large part of the latter type in the middle management ranks right now.

Why? The price of fuel is climbing, and Monte is taking profit right out of our hides. Heads are being chopped in management without regard to whether or not they belong to people who actually are making a difference and doing the job right. So excellence buys less at AC than basic survival instincts.

If your managers didn't care, then it would cost them personally nothing to bump your report up a level. After all, it's not their problem, it's just a report from the line. Uh uh. These folks are afraid that your feedback will reveal what they have feared all along, that they are over their heads and not delivering the product that is asked of them. One more candidate for the abattoir. Of course, the fact that they are ridiculously under-resourced is irrelevant to the discussion.

And that is why there is no response, no acknowledgement - 'never saw the email' - 'my staff never told me', etc, etc. That's not to say you will never hear, but there will be much procrastination, avoidance, and so on, until finally one day you may get something safe back.

I'll enjoy reading your post on the blog, and of course the responding wisdom from our leader.

Vs

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FA, I would send your post, verbatim, to 'Monte's blog'. The guy has got to be told directly. Passing the information one level up virtually guarantees that it will be intercepted by the same mid level, terrified sycophant that caused the problem in the first place.

'Monte, we have a problem. Let me spare you the cost of Ipsos-Reid. Here is what is going on'. And then let him have it.

Vs

Not to worry, the company has someone on the payroll who's job is to monitor all these websites and chatrooms, believe it or not.

He'll probably print it off and send it up the line for you wink.gif

Iceman

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.....is service at AC going to hell in a handbasket?  Representing AC on board its aircraft has really been difficult over the past couple of months.  I haven't worked a flight in weeks in which there wasn't a significant customer service problem over which the crew had no control. 

It sounds like you are saying the problem is someone else's to resolve. On-board customer service is the responsibility of In-Flight. Both In-Flight management and In-Flight staff. That includes ensuring the tools are available to provide the service. To say crew have no control is a cop-out. You are simply saying there is a problem, but you want nothing to do with resolving it. You say there is no time to check what's available and what is not. Excuse me, but I thought it was the In-Flight department who determines what needs to be done and when it needs to be done. Are you suggesting some other department is responsible? If so, what department are you thinking of?

If it isn't resolved by the combined efforts of In-Flight management and staff - who do you think is going to resolve it? Accounting? In-Flight needs to take some collective responsibility for the part it plays in the organization. Not just complain and hope someone else deals with it.

Edited by Rockyc
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Not to worry, the company has someone on the payroll who's job is to monitor all these websites and chatrooms, believe it or not.

He'll probably print it off and send it up the line for you wink.gif

Iceman

That guy was canned last week.

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Rockyc, with respect, I disagree with your assertion that this is all somehow in-flight's issue.

I cannot tell you how many times we have seen this situation develop, with only a portion of the aircraft catered, no water, etc, etc and the reponse from STOC when we call is 'go anyway'. OTP has eclipsed everything.

Since In-Flight and Flight Ops can't physically drive the truck over the aircraft or stock it, we are end-users of a supply chain that is breaking down.

And it is not just a once in a while thing any more. It needs to be fixed. Leaving on time with a sub-standard product is embarassing and demoralizing. If you want your staff to take pride in what they do, making them aplogists won't cut it.

Vs

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I am a former employee who now buys tickets on various carriers regularly. So far this year I have 25,000 miles on AC, 35,000 miles on United and a further 10,000 on Continental and Northwest. I could sit down and complain about all of them if I need be. But, by and large every flight on every airline has been just fine with some really remarkable flights like my just completed YVR-HKG in Executive First.

AC is mainstream for a North American legacy carrier. If something is missing or needs correction onboard it does not matter if the item is missing, but matter most as to how it is treated at the time by the service provider. The last thing that I want to hear from any employee anywhere is "Management won't fix the problem" or "It was someone else's mistake". Genuine care and an attempt to satisfy the customer with any sort of work-around goes a long way.

There are a few things that have made me roll my eyes lately:

-- As I boarded the flight I saw a Flight Attendant take the blanket from my J class seat and stow it in the galley. After dinner I asked for a blanket and it was brought back from the galley by the same person.

-- A J class passenger asked if they could move across the aisle to the centre bulkhead to give the seat mate more room and for their own comfort. The flight attendant said that they could do so 'after the service' as that was where the crew liked to put meal trolleys while serving dinner.

Good things:

-- A J class passenger asked if there were any bags of potato chips instead of the 'nuts' that were offered. The FA said 'sure' and went and got them from the supply that is normally offered later in the flight.

-- A passenger asked for a glass of water during the boarding process. The FA pointed out the bottle that was already in the seat pocket and then two flight attendants came back with a glass for him. He was tickled that this happened. A little thing, but this guy was all smiles.

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FA, I would send your post, verbatim, to 'Monte's blog'. The guy has got to be told directly. Passing the information one level up virtually guarantees that it will be intercepted by the same mid level, terrified sycophant that caused the problem in the first place.

'Monte, we have a problem. Let me spare you the cost of Ipsos-Reid. Here is what is going on'. And then let him have it.

Vs

I have seen this information get intercepted midstream just like you explained it here.

Oh Montie doesn't need to know this, I'll deal with it, our director (or directors god forbid....we seem to be getting so many) or vp would say.

I do believe (as someone else said) that Montie is a well-intentioned person but he can only deal with information that he is given. Of course cost savings always play into things but I can tell you that when the costing of putting a blanket and pillow on each flight was done and approved, it is the intention of the company to fulfill that. Somewhere along the lines this has broken down. Is it some midmanagement type trying to save a few bucks, I doubt it. It is more than likely that it is just poor approach to completeing the job that someone along the way is supposed to be doing.

I've been on about a dozen flights in the last two months. Two of these have been international and while it saddens me to agree, there always seems to be some sort of customer service failure.

One thought that had entered into my mind (as meagre as it may be). We seem to be getting more and more decision making managers from outside of the country and the company. Perhaps they approach this with the thinking from their native country that they can treat the customers this way and get away with it.

If we keep going at the pace we are we'll have Montie on TV making a 180 day guarantee.

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Guest FA_AC
AC is mainstream for a North American legacy carrier. If something is missing or needs correction onboard it does not matter if the item is missing

It matters a lot, actually. Perhaps you have never dealt face to face with a customer. Every service business gets it wrong sometimes, but our failure rate is now far too high. Deal a few times with a cabin full of passengers on an overseas night flight who don't have blankets but know that they'd have them if they were on any airline but ours and you'll then understand. Apologies from us don't always cut it and we shouldn't be in the position of having to offer them so frequently in the first place.

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Rockyc, with respect, I disagree with your assertion that this is all somehow in-flight's issue.

I cannot tell you how many times we have seen this situation develop, with only a portion of the aircraft catered, no water, etc, etc and the reponse from STOC when we call is 'go anyway'.  OTP has eclipsed everything. 

Since In-Flight and Flight Ops can't physically drive the truck over the aircraft or stock it, we are end-users of a supply chain that is breaking down. 

And it is not just a once in a while thing any more.  It needs to be fixed.  Leaving on time with a sub-standard product is embarassing and demoralizing.  If you want your staff to take pride in what they do, making them aplogists won't cut it.

Vs

Who said they have to drive the truck? I did not say In-Flight had to resolve the problem themselves, internally. I said In-Flight is responsible for the in-flight customer service product. There are many venues within in-flight for raising issues and getting them resolved. I am simply saying that if in-flight staff and management don't step up to the plate to get problems recognized and resolved, who will?

I get tired of hearing:

It's someone elses fault.

It's someone elses problem.

I'm just a worker here.

There's no point is saying anything because nothing will improve.

It's always been like that, so it always will be.

Most of the people I know in In-flight are not afraid to raise issues and are successful with getting things fixed. Not everything, and maybe not 100% fixed, but improved ?? Absolutely.

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Guest FA_AC

Cabin Services and not supplied with blankets with which to provision us. Crews write flight reports about missing pillows and blankets and about running out of all kinds of supplies after almost every occurence. Station Managers overseas regularly report this to YUL also. I have written two e-mails on the subject to management and have received no reply. What else would you have me, as a F/A, do?

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What else would you have me, as a F/A, do?

Isn't it obvious? You should have sewn together two spare headrest covers to make a sickness bag for that poor woman before she barfed all over herself, and spend the rest of your spare time knitting blankets for the passengers.

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Guest FA_AC

Isn't it obvious? You should have sewn together two spare headrest covers to make a sickness bag for that poor woman before she barfed all over herself, and spend the rest of your spare time knitting blankets for the passengers.

LOL. biggrin.gif

Thanks for the laugh, Jennifer. All the best. wink.gif

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Cabin Services and not supplied with blankets with which to provision us. Crews write flight reports about missing pillows and blankets and about running out of all kinds of supplies after almost every occurence. Station Managers overseas regularly report this to YUL also. I have written two e-mails on the subject to management and have received no reply. What else would you have me, as a F/A, do?

In the last round of management cuts in YYZ Cabin Service, they let go the only person that could get things done. He was the only one that knew how to train planners (planners decide which crews work which flights and how long they are given to perform that task, it can be quite a juggling act on a busy summer afternoon and not an easy position to fill). He was the one responsible for ordering all the supplies (pillows, blankets, sick bags) for YYZ. He had been in that department for 16 years and knew all about summer peak demands. The management there now have limited experience with Cabin Grooming. It may only be YYZ, but what happens here has an impact throughout the system. I'm told by folks in there that it's a wonder it all hasn't fallen apart already.

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