Goodbye Tango fares

[chockalicious]

So let me get this straight this guy asks for a free upgade ONCE and never flies AC again???

Riiiiiggghht.

Hi Chico, not trying to split hairs but I think his point was over how he was denied the upgrade, not the fact that he did nott get one.

[yul07]

<<<Chevette>>>, chico...gawd I almost forgot they were even built.

But then my first was an old second hand Maverick. Never a Pinto.

[ChicoChico]

mine a 63 Beetle but how did I hijack my own hijack?? I guess he is slighted by HOW he was refused an upgrade fair enough but that he thought he DESERVED a FREE upgrade is interesting...CC

[manwest]

Air Canada relents....

Tango fares will return to agent website on July 7 2006.

hhmm????

[manwest]

And heres the fare flash:

Air Canada Tango Product

Distribution Update

Effective July 7th, 2006, Tango fares including the GO Discount will be reinstated on aircanada.com/agents. This action follows changes to the contractual relationship between Air Canada and Sabre.

Air Canada will continue to pursue every available avenue to ensure that all third party distribution systems, including Sabre, provide all other Air Canada content to our travel agency customers.

Until such time that these third party distribution systems can properly display and market Tango fares, this product will only be available at aircanada.com/agents or aircanada.com.

All other Air Canada fares continue to be available at aircanada.com/agents, or through select third party distribution systems.

For more information, please review the FAQ at aircanada.com/agents.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apology accepted AC

[Rockyc]

Effective July 7th, 2006, Tango fares including the GO Discount will be reinstated on aircanada.com/agents. This action follows changes to the contractual relationship between Air Canada and Sabre.

.........................

Until such time that these third party distribution systems can properly display and market Tango fares, this product will only be available at aircanada.com/agents or aircanada.com.

Apology accepted AC

   

I don't quite see the necessity for an apology from AC. AC was not allowed to have the fare on the Agents's website due to specific "me too" language in the Sabre contract. Even though Sabre is not able to display all of the fare components correctly.

It looks as if the contract language has been altered to remove the "me too" language so that the fare can now be legally displayed on the Agents website while not in Sabre.

I think you could make a case for an apology from Sabre, given that they started the whole mess in the first place!

[Cargo Agent]

And heres the fare flash:

Air Canada Tango Product

Distribution Update

Effective July 7th, 2006, Tango fares including the GO Discount will be reinstated on aircanada.com/agents. This action follows changes to the contractual relationship between Air Canada and Sabre.

Air Canada will continue to pursue every available avenue to ensure that all third party distribution systems, including Sabre, provide all other Air Canada content to our travel agency customers.

Until such time that these third party distribution systems can properly display and market Tango fares, this product will only be available at aircanada.com/agents or aircanada.com.

All other Air Canada fares continue to be available at aircanada.com/agents, or through select third party distribution systems.

For more information, please review the FAQ at aircanada.com/agents.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apology accepted AC

Question for manwest re:

" This action follows changes to the contractual relationship between Air Canada and Sabre. "

Was AC allowed to list those Go Tango fares on www.aircanada.ca/agents and not Sabre before all this?

It seems that there was a legal reason they were removed from the agents accessibility when they were pulled from Sabre or why the need for "contractual changes"?

The GDS still won't upgrade their systems to display the new products. Looks like Sabre is your real problem not AC.

[Guest rattler]

Other question for Manwest. Your first post said

MMMM First it was Tango the airline, now its Tango fares from travel agents. I'm not upset in fact I'm happy, when a clients wants Air Canada I can sell them tango plus, and not have to tell them that they may be denied boarding as is the case with the Tango fares. I can then offer them the Westjet equivilent of the Tango fare and give that business to Westjet and let the client know that they will not be denied boarding and that their bags will travel with them on the same plane, (what a novel concept).

Are you now unhappy that the fares are again available????

[manwest]

I don't quite see the necessity for an apology from AC. AC was not allowed to have the fare on the Agents's website due to specific "me too" language in the Sabre contract. Even though Sabre is not able to display all of the fare components correctly.

It looks as if the contract language has been altered to remove the "me too" language so that the fare can now be legally displayed on the Agents website while not in Sabre.

I think you could make a case for an apology from Sabre, given that they started the whole mess in the first place!

I am taking the reinstatement of the fares as their apology for pulling them without notice.

[manwest]

Question for manwest re:

" This action follows changes to the contractual relationship between Air Canada and Sabre. "

Was AC allowed to list those Go Tango fares on www.aircanada.ca/agents and not Sabre before all this?

It seems that there was a legal reason they were removed from the agents accessibility  when they were pulled from Sabre or why the need for "contractual changes"?

The GDS still won't upgrade their systems to display the new products. Looks like Sabre is your real problem not AC.

Cargo Agent your are right, it was a spat between Ac and sabre, and AC gave us no notice that they would pull those fares. Your also correct that Sabre is not perfect and yes they certainly have to upgrade their system.

[manwest]

Other question for Manwest. Your first post said

Are you now unhappy that the fares are again available????

As per that post we sell tango plus versus tango, its better value for the passenger, with a lot less problems. There are no doubt some agents that sell tango and so be it for them.

I was just put off at the way AC went about it.

I am happy that AC and Sabre have this worked out, wasn't there somebody here and at AC say it would not go back and put the fares on the agent site????

[Dork]

Manwest,

I think you were right on the mark on this one. I have noticed that on one particular domestic run xxx that the loads seemed down for this time of year.

Everytime I observed it I wondered about this thread and the impact of the changes you mentioned. I'm curious as to how much damage actually occured.

Sometimes the elephant can benefit from listening to the mouse.....not just when he roars.

JNHO Thanks for pointing out the original shortcoming.

[dagger]

Question for manwest re:

" This action follows changes to the contractual relationship between Air Canada and Sabre. "

Was AC allowed to list those Go Tango fares on www.aircanada.ca/agents and not Sabre before all this?

It seems that there was a legal reason they were removed from the agents accessibility when they were pulled from Sabre or why the need for "contractual changes"?

The GDS still won't upgrade their systems to display the new products. Looks like Sabre is your real problem not AC.

It also looks like Sabre caved.

AC doesn't want Tango fares in the GDS - they won't be until the GDS product is upgraded

AC did want to have the fares in the AC.com/agents site, but couldn't, contractually.

So AC got at least part of what it wanted

[dagger]

Manwest,

I think you were right on the mark on this one. I have noticed that on one particular domestic run xxx that the loads seemed down for this time of year.

Everytime I observed it I wondered about this thread and the impact of the changes you mentioned. I'm curious as to how much damage actually occured.

Sometimes the elephant can benefit from listening to the mouse.....not just when he roars.

JNHO Thanks for pointing out the original shortcoming.

Well, it sure wasn't on my Toronto-Winnipeg flight yesterday or my Winnipeg-Toronto flight this after.

Both were chock a block

[manwest]

It also looks like Sabre caved.

AC doesn't want Tango fares in the GDS - they won't be until the GDS product is upgraded

AC did want to have the fares in the AC.com/agents site, but couldn't, contractually.

So AC got at least part of what it wanted

Quote manwest:

"I am happy that AC and Sabre have this worked out, wasn't there somebody here and at AC say it would not go back and put the fares on the agent site????"

Never underestimate the buggy whippers.

Buggys Ho..............

[Fido]

It also looks like Sabre caved.

.....

It looks like Sabre couldn't help but cave. By their actions they broke the contract:

From the press release:

This action follows changes to the contractual relationship between Air Canada and Sabre

The odd part is that Sabre are renowned to writing air tight contracts and conforming to the letter. I am surprised they could caught out this time.

[manwest]

Update on Tango fares from Marc Rosenberg AC vice president of Sales & Product Distribution.

http://www.travelweek.ca/travelweek/public...aspx?PageId=554

[manwest]

Latest statement from BTC.

Press Release Source: The Business Travel Coalition (BTC)

BTC Questions for Air Canada

Saturday July 15, 8:47 am ET

Stakeholder collaboration is the straight-path to commercial success

CHICAGO, July 15 /PRNewswire/ -- The Business Travel Coalition (BTC) today published questions regarding the Air Canada (AC) Tango controversy. BTC believes that AC took a good first step in reinstating Tango airfares in its travel agent portal, but it needs to take customers out of the crosshairs in its dispute with GDSs. The questions are designed to help AC better analyze the long-term impacts of its actions that might seem rational to it at the firm level, but that at the industry level causes significant collateral damage for all participants in the distribution chain. BTC encourages AC to consider these questions and to reinstate Tango fares in the GDSs straightaway.

QUESTIONS FOR AC's CONSIDERATION

Customers

1. What are AC's responses to concerns raised by agents and corporate

travel managers regarding content fragmentation that is leading to: a)

additional cost burdens of searching the AC travel agent portal, or

implementing expensive workarounds; higher prices paid due to less

visibility to fare options; c) compromised traveler security when

travelers go to ac.com; d) automated booking strategies being

frustrated; e) compromised data gathering; and f) eroding corporate

travel program credibility.

2. Does AC have concern for the additional service fees consumers are

paying due to agent inefficiencies created by forced-use of the sub-

optimal AC agent portal?

3. Does AC believe that consumers will not vote-with-their-wallets when

they realize an apparent objective is to reduce competitive choices by

driving consumers to ac.com where comparison shopping is not a

functionality currently offered to customers?

4. Why are AC's agreements with the GDSs not forward-looking with respect

to a process for enhanced functionality for new products, and absent

such a plan, why would AC think it acceptable to hold its best

customers hostage as it negotiates a resolution with GDSs?

Competitors

1. Why does AC believe that it can succeed with a content fragmentation

strategy when such strategies failed outright in the U.S. early this

decade?

2. Is AC concerned that its actions could drive customers into the open

arms of LCC segment airlines just as network airlines did in the U.S.

in past years with various flawed policies?

3. If AC's Tango action represents the first phase of a fundamentally new

distribution strategy, then what does the unprecedented negative

reaction of the industry portend for the acceptance of this new

strategy going forward?

Government

1. Is AC reading the stories of a growing number of Canadian consumer

business press who are suggesting that AC does not "give a damn about

its customers" and that a possible sea change in thinking about AC is

at hand among AC's various publics that will harm the airline over the

long term?

2. Is AC concerned that the Canadian government's evolving analysis might

just be that AC seems to possess market power sufficient to override

the serious concerns of its major customers who spend millions of

dollars annually with AC?

3. If major customers are being mistreated, what does that suggest with

respect to the average consumer?

4. Is AC concerned that the expanding coalition of industry and consumer

organizations responding on behalf of constituencies negatively

impacted by AC's actions will support potential legislation to remedy

AC's market power and provide consumers with some measure of buyer

protection?

AC Shareholders

1. How has AC's revenue been impacted by the pulling of Tango fares out of

the GDSs, by GDS' responses and by the shifting of cargo business by

some major corporate customers?

2. How great of a financial hit has AC taken; how long is AC willing to

absorb this kind of marketplace response?

3. How could a policy that drives all other industry participants' costs

up, creates so many other problems and institutionalizes displeasure

with the airline, be beneficial to AC in the long run?

4. Should AC shareholders be concerned about self-inflicted damage to AC's

brand name and public image?

CONTACT BTC || Kevin Mitchell | 610.341.1850 | btcmitchell@gmail.com

Founded in 1994, the mission of the Business Travel Coalition is to lower the long-term cost structure of business travel. BTC seeks to bring transparency to industry and government policies and practices so that customers can influence issues of strategic importance to them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source: The Business Travel Coalition (BTC)

[Guest rattler]

In 1996 the Business Travel Coalition (BTC) was formed as an advocacy organization to represent the interests of corporate buyers of the business travel services on issues in Washington and in the press.

btc website

And in case you were wondering why a US advocacy organization is interested in what Air Canada is doing.

The Business Travel Coalition (BTC) will be publishing a blog throughout the upcoming National Business Travel Association (NBTA) International Convention & Exposition in Chicago. The focus of the blog will be strictly on airline distribution system reform announcements, educational sessions and informal debates.

CAPSULE

The moment of truth has arrived for travel industry distribution as the first market-driven business model(s) emerge after 20 years of U.S.

DOT regulation.

New, long-term airline-GDS agreements are virtually all in place, but if and how corporate travel managers will help shape these agreements into beneficial industry business models remains uncertain amidst great risk. Some of these agreements are shrouded in secrecy and could be toxic for corporate managed travel programs, as they become clearer. The Air Canada Tango action could represent just the tip of the iceberg with regard to content fragmentation, extra complexity-driven costs and corporate travel program credibility.

WHEN

BTC will update its blog several times during the Convention beginning Sunday, July 16 and concluding Wednesday, July 19.

WHERE

The BTC blog can be accessed at http://btcblog.typepad.com/travel_distribution_refor/

SPECIAL NOTE

BTC is accepting guest-authored posts for publication on the blog during the Convention. Submissions should be emailed to btcmitchell@gmail.com

[dagger]

In other words, the BTC is the official GDS åss-kisser

[Guest rattler]

In other words, the BTC is the official GDS åss-kisser

You golden tongued Devil you.

[manwest]

In other words, the BTC is the official GDS åss-kisser

Do you have a link to support this statement?

If not don't waste band space.

Buggys Ho

[dagger]

You must be bitter because US and AA are going to start charging TA's a fee of $3.50 per segment for fares booked on GDSs with no new master airline agreements. Currently, that Sabre and Amadeus. Coming on Sept 1, baby.

Want a link?

Here you go.

http://www.btnmag.com/businesstravelnews/h...t_id=1002840533

http://www.btnmag.com/businesstravelnews/h...t_id=1002839743

Here's the hard truth for you, Manwest. AC played the Trojan Horse for the North American airlines because, like it or not, ACE's boss has the stones to take on the GDS mafioso. Now that the gates have been breached and airlines are forging preferred supplier arrangements - with lower fees - with GDS systems, it's too late for corporate travel types like the BTC to go to the ramparts and cry for help. They should have been neutral players in this, because it was always in their interest to get the GDS systems to make compromises. Instead, they threw in their lot with them.

[manwest]

I am fully aware of the charges that may be charged to agents by some carriers.

Does this affect our bottom line, no these charges will be passed to the passengers as a cost of the ticket. so for example an AA ticket to DFW will be higher than an DL ticket to DFW., who is it going to hurt in the end???? No me not Delta.

Not a bitter bone in my body. some customers are feeling bitter about your AC customer service issues. As you are probably aware by the many disgruntled on Flyer Talk. Maybe you should switch your energy and have another talk with Monty and Milty about these service issues.

If you spent more time getting your beloved AC product up to par with some of the LCC's maybe ACE could make some real money in the airline transportation sector versus the buying and selling shares of bankrupted carriers.

Could there be another AC bankruptcy down the road????? Deja Vu???

Buggys Ho.

[dagger]

I am fully aware of the charges that may be charged to agents by some carriers.

Does this affect our bottom line, no these charges will be passed to the passengers as a cost of the ticket. so for example an AA ticket to DFW will be higher than an DL ticket to DFW., who is it going to hurt in the end???? No me not Delta.

Not a bitter bone in my body. some customers are feeling bitter about your AC customer service issues. As you are probably aware by the many disgruntled on Flyer Talk. Maybe you should switch your energy and have another talk with Monty and Milty about these service issues.

If you spent more time getting your beloved AC product up to par with some of the LCC's maybe ACE could make some real money in the airline transportation sector versus the buying and selling shares of bankrupted carriers.

Could there be another AC bankruptcy down the road????? Deja Vu???

Buggys Ho.

And when all the airlines match, as they will, the costs will be borne by the consumer, which is what the airline wants. Instead in implicit cost, it will be an explicit cost, and you'll be charging it.