Goodbye Tango fares

[manwest]

1) Where is the slight that Air Canada has performed (i.e. where was the obligation to inform the TA community prior to pulling the Tango fares)? Could you elaborate on this slight.

2) What should have Air Canada done to properly handle the situation? Would a better actions have a material impact on the current situation (i.e. while AC could have issued a PR the day/week before, would prior notice have altered TA attitudes towards the situation)?

As I have stated in the other forum, I like this action as it results in my company not sticking me into a Tango fare because the corporate TA thinks its the best option (I book T+ for personal travel). In the last 2 days, my company has confirmed T+ is an acceptable lowest fare, so we don't have to Tango for seats and get status miles.

Travel agents regard the airlines as their partner. Working for/with your partner you each contribute to the betterment of each other. When one partner suddenly changes the system that you are both using without any prior information it is seen as being disrepectful. if Air Canada had sent out a memo or fax to the agency community stating they were having concerns about the agents having access to the tango fares in the gds/or they were having a disagreement with one or all of the gds systems, the agents would have been more understanding of the situation. I'm sure the agents would have been sympathetic to the concerns of Air Canada and many would have probably supported AC in its disagreement with the gds. Air Canada unfortunately chose a different route.

Like most busnessmen you prefer the tango plus, most of my corporate accounts allow their employees to book tango plus fares, giving the employee aeroplan status miles, along with the free seat selection, always better to have that seat number than to play tango-roulette and get bumped off your flight when you have that meeting in Toronto. As I have mentioned previously, I don't mind not having access to tango fares,I don't think they were ever good for the business traveller

and most likely were planned that way by Air Canada to be used to market itself in the lcc once Zip and Tango(the airline) were no more.

[newgirl]

Manwest

Just curious as to an earlier post where you mentioned that Tango fare passengers were generally the first to be denied boarding in an oversale situation. Where did that come from?

AC's policy is that all advance seat selection is removed 25 minutes(domestic) prior departure if the passengers have not checked in. The standby list will then be actioned.

Could it be that many of the denied boardings are passengers who become overly confident because they have advance seat selection and choose to disregard the checkin time limits for whatever reason?

Could it be that the percentage of this occurance just happen to be Tango fares? Personally I've denied boarding to full fare passengers because they checkin 15 mins. prior departure.

One of the complaints voiced by our passengers is our on-time departures. If we didn't have time frames to work with then no flight would go out on time.

As a TA what time do you recommend to your clients to be at the airport for checkin?

[manwest]

Manwest

  Just curious as to an earlier post where you mentioned that Tango fare passengers were generally the first to be denied boarding in an oversale situation. Where did that come from?

  AC's policy is that all advance seat selection is removed 25 minutes(domestic) prior departure if the passengers have not checked in. The standby list will then be actioned.

Could it be that many of the denied boardings are passengers who become overly confident because they have advance seat selection and choose to disregard the checkin time limits for whatever reason?

  Could it be that the percentage of this occurance just happen to be Tango fares? Personally I've denied boarding to full fare passengers because they checkin 15 mins. prior departure.

  One of the complaints voiced by our passengers is our on-time departures. If we didn't have time frames to work with then no flight would go out on time.

  As a TA what time do you recommend to your clients to be at the airport for checkin?

Hi Newgirl:

In regards to tango fares being denied came from passengers to me directly, they said they were told because they had a tango fare and did not have seat selection they did not have a confirmed reservation and will have to take the next flight. Now I know its unlikely but maybe the checkin agent was in a bad mood that day????

Quite often when I have booked on the ac agent website, and sold a tango plus or latitude fare, when you went to do the seat selection there were no seats to select. Of course the seats to be given out ahead may all be gone, and the pax would have to wait at checkin for selection, or the flight may have been already oversold and there are no seat numbers left to be given out. I have never had a tango plus or latitude tell me they were denied boarding.

We verbaly tell and its pointed out on the pax's itinerary that domestic checkin is 60 minutes and checkin less than 30 mins they could lose their seats, we say 2 hours for transborder as its always busy in that area, and 3 hours for international. Of course you will always get odd businessperson rushing to the gate with 5 minutes to spare. I've been putting bums on seats for close to 30 years and there will always be those pax that think they can just walk up 5 mins prior and expect to get on board. Hope this answers your questions.

[manwest]

Galileo threatens Legal action:

http://www.travelweekly.com/articles.aspx?articleid=51307

[Maverick]

Galileo threatens Legal action:

http://www.travelweekly.com/articles.aspx?articleid=51307

Hey manwest, that's a subscription, could you cut and paste?

[manwest]

Hey manwest, that's a subscription, could you cut and paste?

Sorry opens on my set. here you go

Galileo joins the dance, pressing Air Canada on Tango fares (05/09/2006)

By Dennis Schaal

Galileo plans to take steps to ensure that agents using its Apollo GDS in the U.S. and Japan, and its Galileo res system outside Europe won’t retrieve Air Canada flights in low-fare queries beginning May 11 unless they specifically search for Air Canada flights.

The move is designed to press Air Canada to reverse its May 2 action that removed its no-frill, Tango fares from Sabre, Galileo’s Apollo and Amadeus.

“We are exploring all appropriate actions and if we are unable to resolve this amicably, which is of course our first approach, we would pursue what means we need to protect the interests of our customers, including legal action,” said Jill Brenner, communications director for Cendant Travel Distribution Services, which includes Galileo.

Cendant’s Galileo unit operates two interconnected GDS systems, Apollo for users in the U.S., Canada and Japan, and Galileo for the rest of the world.

Galileo stated it will remove Tango inventory classes (R, K, N, P, G, E and T) from availability displays and “... outside of Canada and the EU, unless specifically requested, Galileo will no longer return Air Canada results in low fare shopping calls.”

The exceptions for Canada and the EU come because these regions still regulate the GDSs.

“We remain frustrated and severely disappointed that with virtually no advance notice, Air Canada has taken the severe action of removing Tango fares from all the GDS systems, including the Apollo system, and is no longer permitting the pricing or ticketing of Tango fares,” Galileo stated. “We stand behind our customers and their need to have access to full content in a cost effective manner.”

Galileo and Air Canada implemented a four-year agreement on Oct. 15, 2004, that required the airline to provide Galileo and Apollo subscribers around the world with all published fares that the airline makes available to travel agents through other channels. The agreement included Air Canada’s Tango, Fun and Latitude fares. In return, Air Canada received reduced booking fees from Galileo.

Since Air Canada removed Tango fares from the GDSs and the airline’s agency Web site May 2, it has been widely criticized by agent organizations.

Sabre, which is the market leader ahead of Galileo in Canada, kicked off the pressure following the airline’s actions by biasing Air Canada displays and removing certain fare classes.

On May 8, the Association of Canadian Travel Agencies, the Canadian Corporate Travel Association, ASTA and the Business Travel Coalition jointly pressed Air Canada to roll back its removal of Tango fares, which represent about 20% of the airline tickets that Canadians buy.

“ACTA, CCTA, ASTA and BTC called on Air Canada to immediately reverse this misguided, anti-consumer move and to once again put these important fares back into the systems that travel agencies use to serve their customers in an efficient and cost-effective way,” according to their joint statement.

Amidst the firestorm, there was no immediate signal from Air Canada that it was having a change of heart.

To contact reporter Dennis Schaal, send e-mail to dschaal@travelweekly.com.

MORE NEWS - TRAVEL TECHNOLOGY

• Galileo joins the dance, pressing Air Canada on Tango fares• Sabre reveals some aspects of contract with Amadeus

[newgirl]

In regards to tango fares being denied came from passengers to me directly, they said they were told because they had a tango fare and did not have seat selection they did not have a confirmed reservation and will have to take the next flight. Now I know its unlikely but maybe the checkin agent was in a bad mood that day????

Hi Manwest

Actually it may not be unlikely. There are rare times on both domestic and international flights where the passenger is not on the flight list. Upon checking the reservation we find that the specific flight reads US not HK. So we show unconfirmed but the Agencies computer shows HK and so does the iten. given to the passenger.

How and where it goes wrong , I don't know. Obviously the 2 computer systems aren't processing the booking data properly. So yes the option was to rebook the pax on the next available flight.

Of course our initial reaction is the Agency messed up and vice versa. But when I saw more of it happening , I figured it was a glitch in the systems. So I started to explain to the passengers that it was a system error etc and no one was at fault. Obviously they weren't happy but seemed to understand.

A number of times I butted in (a no no) when I over heard one of our agents blaming an agency for this problem. So as many of us are unaware of the glitch perhaps that why the agent was in a "bad mood" ?

You must remember the days when we used to wait at least 24 hours before advising our pax that their flights were confirmed especially on overseas flights? Even if it sold as HK , within 1-18 hours later it could come back US. But those were the good old days and its much harder today when everyone expects immediate confirmations....

When I retired a year ago , advance seat selection was sold up to 85% and then closed off to everyone including ourselves with the exception of SuperElite. That left 15% of available seats for the airport to use for checkin on day of flight.

So much has changed in a year that this may not be the same today.

Hope this makes some sense to you as I really so dislike the antigonism between the TA's and airline staff.

[manwest]

Hi Manwest

  Actually it may not be unlikely. There are rare times on both domestic and international flights where the passenger is not on the flight list. Upon checking the reservation we find that the specific flight reads US not HK.  So we show unconfirmed but the Agencies computer shows HK and so does the iten. given to the passenger.

  How and where it goes wrong , I don't know. Obviously the 2 computer systems aren't  processing the booking data properly. So yes the option was to rebook the pax on the next available flight.

  Of course our initial reaction is the Agency messed up and vice versa. But  when I saw more of it happening , I figured it was a glitch in the systems. So I started to explain to the passengers that it was a system error  etc and no one was at fault.  Obviously they weren't happy but seemed to understand.

  A number of times I butted in (a no no) when I over heard one of our agents blaming an agency for this problem. So as many of us are unaware of the glitch perhaps that why the agent was in a "bad mood" ?

  You must remember the days when we used to wait at least 24 hours before advising our pax that their flights were confirmed especially on overseas flights?  Even if it sold as HK , within 1-18 hours later it could come back US. But those were the good old days and its much harder today when everyone expects immediate confirmations....

  When I retired a year ago , advance seat selection was sold up to 85% and then closed off to everyone including ourselves with the exception of SuperElite. That left 15% of available seats for the airport to use for checkin on day of flight.

  So much has changed in a year that this may not be the same today.

  Hope this makes some sense to you as I really so dislike the antigonism between the TA's and airline staff.

Newgirl

Thank you for your reply with your side of the story, I think you maybe right about the computer glitch thing. We have noticed a similar situation selling LH seats on AC metal, it seems the electronic tickets are not being received by AC so the pax is told he was not ticketed or that his ticket n copy he has in hand was not received by AC. It makes for a tense moment for the pax at the airport.

Once again thanks for your insight.

[manwest]

AC's Corporate Customers oppose latest move

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060511/nyth044.html?.v=52

[manwest]

May 10, 2006

Mr. Montie Brewer

Chief Executive Officer

Air Canada

PO Box 14000, Station Airport

Dorval, Quebec H4Y-1H4

VIA FACSIMILE & ELECTRONIC MAIL

Dear Mr. Brewer,

The undersigned corporate travel and purchasing managers represent both Canadian corporations and as well as international corporations with substantial Canadian travel activities. We write to express our profound disappointment concerning the unprofessional manner in which you have treated us, your very best customers, with respect to your removal of Tango fares from the four GDSs without warning or consultation.

Removing such important low-fare inventory from the GDSs discriminates against us, frustrates our strategic efforts to automate and consolidate all traveler bookings and interrupts the workflow of our travel management companies which now need to manually shop for, purchase and assemble travel itineraries.

This toxic combination of bad policy and non-existent communications has caused needless anxiety and confusion. We call on you to immediately reverse this misguided, customer-harmful policy and to once again put these important fares back into the systems that we use to serve our business travelers in an efficient and cost-effective manner.

Sincerely,

Applied Materials Kevin Maguire, Director of Global Travel Services

Applied Systems Inc. Sherry Boudreau, Manager of Travel and Admin. Services

Belden CDT Inc. Linda Smith, Meetings and Travel Services Supervisor

BISYS Management Company Henix Teegardin, Manager, Corporate Travel

Boscov’s Department Stores Tom Roberts, Travel Manager

Brown Brothers Harriman & Co. Dale Peak, Assistant Vice President

Burton Corporation Tracy Cummings, Executive Assistant / Travel Manager

CIGNA Corporation Thomas Prevost Jr., Vice President, Aviation, Travel & Conference Mgmt.

Commonwealth Bank of Australia Jean D'Souza, Travel, Catering & Conference Services Manager

DaimlerChrysler Corporation Dave Weiner, Director, Travel Management & Business Services

Deutsche Bank AG Debbie Dayton, Global Head of Travel Service

E Companies Paula A. Murray, Travel Manager

Epicor Software Corporation Marc Mangiantini, Travel Manager

Gannett Co., Inc. Emily Hanson, Manager/Travel Services

Gartner Susan Osterberg, Sr. Manager, Global Travel

GE Security Tonia Pajak, Travel Management Administrator

General Motors Corp. Kevin P. Killeen, Director, Employee Business Travel

Humana Inc. Shelly Ford, CTC Manager of Travel & Conference Room Support

Ingersoll Rand Robert J. Zartarian, Manager, Travel and Meeting Services

JELD-WEN, Inc. Flodine Lee, Corporate Travel Manager

Kindred Healthcare Sally A. Meilun, Director of Travel and Relocation

Lehman Brothers Leslie Bernauer, Senior Vice President

Maritz Travel Tricia Feibig, Manager, Internal Business Travel

Misys Healthcare Systems Susan Carter, Travel Manager

MIT Lincoln Laboratory William F. Ustaszewski, Manager, Corporate Travel Dept.

Orbital Sciences Corporation Patricia C. Najera, Manager of Administrative Services and Travel

OSI Systems, Inc. Frank Dolce, Global Corporate Travel Manager

PerkinElmer, Inc. Tom McCabe, Director Global Travel / Meeting Services

PPG Canada Inc. Helen Vachon, Manager, Supply Chain Logistics

PPG Industries, Inc. Joann Ladesic, Manager, Corporate Travel

R. J. Reynolds Linda Beaver, Lead Manager, Corporate Travel Services

Rich Products Corporation Jean Covelli, Travel Administrator

RMIC Corporation Michael R. Brooks, VP/General Services

Rotary International Robert S. Mintz, Division Manager, Corporate Relations & Global Travel

RPM International Inc. Janeen Kastner, Director of Human Resources & Administration

Siemens Canada Richard Giesbrecht, Vice President Purchasing and Shared Services

Siemens Energy & Automation, Inc. Vin Rogers, Travel Supervisor

Siemens VDO Automotive Corp. Peggy Medeiros, Regional Commodity Manager, Travel Capital, Services, and MRO

Stephens Inc./Staffmark Christine Veirs Ringgold, Vice President., Corporate Travel Manager Group and Meeting Services

Thales Communications Inc. Samina Raghavan, Travel Coordinator

The Black & Decker Corporation Mariclare Rafferty, Sr. Manager, Travel & Meeting Services

The University of British Columbia Connie Fabro, Travel Manager

Trim Masters Inc. Trish Claunch, Corporate Services & Cash Manager

VHA Inc. Phyllis Cowell, Corporate Travel Manager

Weyerhaeuser Company Cathy Winter, Travel Manager

Wolters Kluwer North America Hope Hippler, Travel Manager

[Guest rattler]

Will this force Mr Milton to rescind this decision or can the feed to ACs corporate customers can be tweaked so as to allow access to the fares in question. Is this a real issue? In the past, major corporate airlines clients were rumoured to being billed for their flights based on individual contracts (bulk usage) and not the fares displayed in the CRS systems. Of course that is only conjecture as such contracts are not public record.

Air Canada's Best Corporate Customers Oppose New Distribution Policy

Higher prices, new costs, degradation of data and security risks are issues

RADNOR, Pa., May 11 /CNW/ -- The Business Travel Coalition (BTC)

yesterday transmitted a Signatory Letter to Air Canada (AC) CEO Montie Brewer

regarding his airline's policy to remove low-fare Tango inventory from the

four GDSs. The letter was signed by forty-six corporations and universities

who are important AC customers. These Signatories are very concerned that AC's

action will 1) lead to increased prices paid for air travel, 2) generate new

administrative and process costs due to content fragmentation and complexity

and 3) encourage other airlines to implement similar disruptive policies. (See

Signatory Letter at Air Canada Watch: http://btcweb.biz/ac.htm.)

BTC chairman Kevin Mitchell stated, "This issue has touched an extremely

sensitive nerve in the business travel community and all throughout the travel

industry. Air Canada's message to its best customers that they no longer merit

access to Tango fares through GDSs has caused a huge and sustained outcry.

Contrary to Air Canada's spin, there are no technological limitations involved

in loading these fares into GDSs; the only technological problems have come

from Air Canada deliberately throwing sand in the gears of managed travel

programs through this unfortunate and unwise move."

The Coalition believes that the growing opposition to AC's policy is

becoming so strong and diverse that the airline will realize the harm its

policy is causing and reverse course. In addition to individual corporate

travel managers and travel agency executives writing directly to AC, the

Association of Canadian Travel Agencies, the Canadian Corporate Travel

Association, the American Society of Travel Agents, and the Business Travel

Coalition have all been active in advocating AC's reversal of its new

distribution policy. What's more, Canadian travel buyers and distributors

during an Association of Corporate Travel Executives' (ACTE) conference in

Atlanta this week expressed strong concerns about AC's policy. (ACTE is a

prominent global business travel professionals Association.)

According to a May 8th ACTE Press Release, "Attendees overwhelmingly

stated that the impact of Air Canada's recent action to remove some of the

inventory from the GDSs would complicate or hinder their travel program."

During an automated polling of the Canadian ACTE members, 83% of the buyers

indicated that the AC policy would hinder their managed travel program;

likewise, 83% of buyers agreed that lack of consolidated data would be a

consequence. Very importantly, 67% of buyers indicated having travelers

booking out of their corporate systems would represent a security risk with

respect to their whereabouts during a crisis. Vast majorities also agreed

travel costs would increase due to higher prices-paid and increased process

complexity.

BTC calls on AC to put its very best customers' interests first and

reverse its misguided distribution strategy.

Founded in 1994, the mission of the Business Travel Coalition is to lower

the long-term cost structure of business travel. BTC seeks to bring

transparency to industry and government policies and practices so that

customers can influence issues of strategic importance to them.

[manwest]

Just checking out my new signature.

[dagger]

Just checking out my new signature.

What's different about it?

[CanadaEH]

***CROWNED WESTJETS BIGGEST BOOTLICKER BY DORVAL DAG***

[Guest rattler]

But Dag, is a supporter of the Raptors and therefore residence in Dorval is suspect.

[manwest]

Northwest Airlines signs new 5 year contract with Worldspan.

Northwest Airlines announces they have signed a new five year contract with Worldspan GDS. Northwest now has long-term preferred agreements with Sabre and Worldspan.

Northwest's agreement advances our stategies of making our product available as widely as possible while achieving competitive economics for Northwest Airlines.

This new agreement will allow agencies to have access to all published fares and seat inventory. This includes published fares, that the airline sells through nwa.com, any third party website or other distribution system, as well as private fares, where applicable.

[Guest rattler]

Getting boring......

[manwest]

Getting boring......

Rattler, no one is forcing you to read it.

If your bored, its easy just don't read the thread.

[Guest rattler]

Rattler, no one is forcing you to read it.

If your bored, its easy  just don't read the thread.

 

...

[Mitch Cronin]

Looks better like this:

[Guest rattler]

Mitch: I forgot that size is everything. Just like real life.

I should have shrunk the gif down before I posted it. Thanks

[Mitch Cronin]

It's ok Rattler.... More importantly, where's Manwest's missing ?

I think we should call the cybercops in! Everyone knows his signature is three of 'em.... so then what happened? Did the last one get stolen? Was he kidnapped? We need forensic pixelists in here... dust for one's and zero's or sumthin!!!

Manwest, where'd your go!!??

[Guest rattler]

It's ok Rattler.... More importantly, where's Manwest's missing  ?

I think we should call the cybercops in! Everyone knows his signature is three of 'em.... so then what happened? Did the last one get stolen? Was he kidnapped? We need forensic pixelists in here... dust for one's and zero's or sumthin!!!

Manwest, where'd your  go!!??

Mitch: no need for the detective. 3 means he is happy, 2 meant he was po'd with me. Now if he ever gets down to one, we will be in big trouble.

PS. Manwest, just funning you

[manwest]

Mitch: no need for the detective.  3 means he is happy, 2 meant he was po'd with me.  Now if he ever gets down to one, we will be in big trouble. 

PS. Manwest, just funning you 

You can ony have a certain number of smilies in a post, I could not add three only two as there were already three in the quote form rattler. I guess max is five.

* You have posted a message with more emoticons that this board allows. Please reduce the number of emoticons you've added to the message.*

So three does not mean happy, two does not mean po'd. I am not mad at anyone.

If I was mad at anyone you would certainly know it.

[Guest rattler]

You can ony have a certain number of smilies in a post, I could not add three only two as there were already three in the quote form rattler. I guess max is five.

* You have posted a message with more emoticons that this board allows. Please reduce the number of emoticons you've added to the message.*

So three does not mean happy, two does not mean po'd. I am not mad at anyone.

If I was mad at anyone you would certainly know it.

And here I had thought I had unlocked the "Manwest" Code.