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Rightly or wrongly, AC pilots concluded that they were "superior" to "feeder pilots" aka, regionals. Any merger had to recognize this hierarchy so that regional pilots would be placed at the bottom of any such list.

No, actually. The AC pilots concluded that the jobs they brought to the table were superior.

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To do nothing now after Teplitsky's review will make the labor situation worse not better.

One thing I've learned about human behaviour is that people will always take the path without the pain. If the CIRB does not use this opportunity (given to them by Teplitsky) to stop their pain over this whole issue involving stupid greedy pilots I will be astounded. cool.gif

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This discussion about the tent is probably one of the most childish things that I have seen on this board for a while. Like another poster said, it takes 15 seconds, who cares whose job it is, just do it.

Do any of you stop to consider what all these disrespectful comments to each other look like to the travelling public? Obviously not, if you really new what you looked like, mistreating each other, you would be embarrassed.

I have many friends and business associates that travel in 'our J class' and all of them, without exception, have made comments about this. They are astounded by the things that they hear... Perhaps, we should all remember that we are in a public place. blink.gif

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So what's more childish? Refusing to put your stuff away and insisting that your servants...errr...flight attendants do it for you, or fighting about it afterwards?

Forgetting to do it is one thing. Not doing so out of consideration for the customer sitting in front of you is another. Refusing to is the issue here.

Put it this way. Your spouse wouldn't put up with it at home, nor would most of us accept that kind of behaviour from our children. So why is it acceptable behaviour at work? If I'm out of bed last, I'm expected to make it. Same goes with my wife. The kids are expected to make theirs. Sometimes one or all of us forget or have to rush off without doing it. No big deal. Stuff happens. But nobody would ever dare say they aren't doing it because that's Mom or Dad's job, not theirs. And that's how we feel when pilots refuse to put the thing away.

But you're right. It's definitely childish and something that shouldn't even be an issue. It's 15 seconds of your time. Put it away if you took it down. I you forgot or could not, let us know and it's no big deal. Refuse to do so because it's not your job and everybody gets their hackles up.

And it's more fun drinking beer with you guys than talking about you over beers with the other stews tongue.gif .

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So what's more childish? Refusing to put your stuff away and insisting that your servants...errr...flight attendants do it for you, or fighting about it afterwards?

Forgetting to do it is one thing. Not doing so out of consideration for the customer sitting in front of you is another. Refusing to is the issue here.

Put it this way. Your spouse wouldn't put up with it at home, nor would most of us accept that kind of behaviour from our children. So why is it acceptable behaviour at work? If I'm out of bed last, I'm expected to make it. Same goes with my wife. The kids are expected to make theirs. Sometimes one or all of us forget or have to rush off without doing it. No big deal. Stuff happens. But nobody would ever dare say they aren't doing it because that's Mom or Dad's job, not theirs. And that's how we feel when pilots refuse to put the thing away.

But you're right. It's definitely childish and something that shouldn't even be an issue. It's 15 seconds of your time. Put it away if you took it down. I you forgot or could not, let us know and it's no big deal. Refuse to do so because it's not your job and everybody gets their hackles up.

And it's more fun drinking beer with you guys than talking about you over beers with the other stews tongue.gif .

My point is... this is not worth your time. If somebody refuses to put it away, take the high road (for the sake of the PAX) and just do it. To me, somethings in life are not worth the hassle of confrontation and the associated 'ill will' that goes along with it. If you put it away, remind the other person over beers. Just say, "hey I did you a favour and put the tent away" - they will probably apologize and offer to by you a beer.

We all make mistakes...

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Unfortunately, it's been my experience that when reminded, even good-naturedly over a beer, the response is anything but friendly. The pilots usually get defensive and start going on about how it doesn't say in the book that it's their job.........

As for taking the high road, I always do. I'd never make it an issue in front of our customers. It's unprofessional and can be dealt with on the bus or over a beer at the pub. My only form of protest onboard is to stuff the thing behind as much lav supplies, pillows, etc as I can to make it really difficult for the folks to find, unfold, and put back down. It's never to the point where you won't be able to find it, but it sure as heck ain't stowed nicely so you can just flip it down and have a nap. Childish, yes, but it makes me feel better.

But back at you. Why would someone refuse to do it? Ultimately, that's the point here. I'm not talking about forgetting and then apologizing for it after being reminded over a beer. I'm talking about absolutely refusing because you perceive it to be the FA's job. Why would anybody take that position? That, to me, is the ultimate in being childish.

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So what's next?

Is there a vote and then it goes to the CIRB, or does the CIRB get it first?

Also, what happens if the judicial review is granted on appeal? Does it take precedence over Teplitsky if he's given the time of day from the board?

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Guest directlaw
So what's next?

Is there a vote and then it goes to the CIRB, or does the CIRB get it first?

Also, what happens if the judicial review is granted on appeal? Does it take precedence over Teplitsky if he's given the time of day from the board?

Moeman,

It has been in the CIRB's hands since last Monday. As for a vote. That is a good question. One that is being debated as we speak. My understanding is that it will depend a lot on how the CIRB responds.

Assuming that Teplitsky's recommendations are approved by the CIRB, then it will be Incorporated into the contract within two days. If a Judicial review is granted Teplitsky's recommendations will remain in place until the review is heard. As always the Judicial review will likely do one of 3 things. Dismiss, Strike down, or send it back to the CIRB.

I get the impression the CIRB is writing a book. They will try and put some finality on this.

Responce expected by mid Dec.

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Moeman,

It has been in the CIRB's hands since last Monday. As for a vote. That is a good question. One that is being debated as we speak. My understanding is that it will depend a lot on how the CIRB responds.

A vote?? who? CIRB ? ACPA ? AC ?

How is a vote dependant on the CIRB?

If the CIRB says "Yay" ..who votes and what is the vote about?

If the CIRB says "Nay" who votes and what is the vote about?

Just curious about your statement.

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Guest directlaw
A vote?? who? CIRB ? ACPA ? AC ?

How is a vote dependant on the CIRB?

If the CIRB says "Yay" ..who votes and what is the vote about?

If the CIRB says "Nay" who votes and what is the vote about?

Just curious about your statement.

Kip,

I the CIRB comes back and says nothing other than "the process was legal". That would leave ACPA in a delicate situation. Technically Teplitsky's recommendation is just that a recommendation not an arbitration.

Changing the seniority list would require changing the contract.

Does this require a ratification vote?

Some say yes. Any change requires a vote. The Seniority poll does not count because it was a poll.

Some say no vote is required. The seniority poll directed ACPA to implement list II which is the same as Teplitsky's undiscounted Keller award. No sayers would also point out that the MOA signed between ACPA and AC is clear on the issue wrt the seniority mediation. It states the company will implement the list within two days of response from the CIRB.

I personally don't think any vote is required. I believe the MOA signed by ACPA and AC is clear. If approved by the CIRB it will be implemented with in 2 days.

My comment was just that Moeman was astute enough to figure out that it may be an issue.

In all likelihood though the CIRB will not just state " the process was legal".

I hear they are writing a novel. They want to create absolute finality. So the debate is likely mute.

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