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AC's E175


manwest
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New partnerships that expand the revenue stream have to go into place for the Fund to move to $20. There has to be an anticipation of bigger distributions to achieve a big bump in the price. I'd look on any announcement of a large partnership as an opportunity. Wait a few days after that assumption and if the price returns to current levels, buy. The market doesn't have enough experience with the Fund to know how new partnerships will hike distributable cash.

Thanks I will keep a close watch on the fund and try to wait for a good buy in. I would also like to ask you your opinion on the YXU London market Would you think AC will jump back in with an E175 OR 190 and go head to head with WJ and their is talk of doing YXU YHZ also or do you think they will do it with Jazz RJ's ? or do you think they will just leave this market the way it is ?

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Actually, Tango ushered in the one-way fares that are part of AC's growing success, and ZIP ushered in the labor agreements that are part of AC's growing success. Both became redundant when AC achieved the lower labor costs through CCAA. Then Zip costs could be applied across the airline, so why have a separate discount carrier?

That is excellent sentence construction, sir. wink.gif Do you entertain with sleight of hand as well?? rolleyes.gifbiggrin.gif

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That is excellent sentence construction, sir. wink.gif Do you entertain with sleight of hand as well?? rolleyes.gifbiggrin.gif

Is that the best criticism you have? The grammar of my posts? Do you want to be criticized for every grammatical slipup you make?

Get real, man!

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Is that the best criticism you have? The grammar of my posts? Do you want to be criticized for every grammatical slipup you make?

Get real, man!

Not criticizing, sir... truly complimenting. And I know, without any doubt, that you are smart enough to get my point... smile.gif

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Guest woxof

"Where have you been? If taking cuts in pay, pension, benifits, and work rules does not constitute change then what does? Disagree all you want but as long as front line employees are blamed history will continue to repeat itself. A good military leader does not blame his troops for failure. "

Of course I only get my information from the media and internet but why was there a wildcat strike by groundstaff in YYZ last yaer. Someting about punchcards was it ? What about pilots screwing AC's plans for a huge Boeing order because they mixed it up with seniority issues which AC has little or no control over. Is this the attitude from the bottom that is helping AC grow into a world class airline? A good soldier does not blame his leaders for all of his own faults.

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That’s all great but getting back to my original point, why the CRJ-705? If the ERJs are so perfect for the mission then why bother? Is it perhaps to assist in the tiresome labor whipsaw effect?

I have high hopes for AC but it seems like every direction I look the same stupidity that we have all seen before repeats itself. Morale sucks. The mainline is hiring 1500hr pilots with no post secondary education while Jazz recruits 5000hr+ jet pilots. I wonder how morale will be at Jazz in 3 years when these experienced pilots are stagnated watching everyone with over 1000hrs and a year in the industry cruise right into the mainline. Dagger I share a lot of your optimism about the bright future of AC but the one thing I have always noticed about truly successful companies is the attitude / spirit of the employees. I don't think Microsoft, Apple, Jetblue, Southwest, Westjet, Virgin, etc. got to where they are by treating their employees like crap. I spend more time than I would like to in the back of AC airplanes and although better than American / United, we have a long way to go before this is the world class product that Milton dreams of.

All I am trying to say here is that if AC is to grow into the world class airline that it hopes to be, the attitude is going to have to change from the top and so far it hasn't.

I highly doubt Air Canada would take a person with 1500hrs over a person at Jazz with lots more unless they want pilots who want to work and are not Jaded at all by the bankruptcy and merger. Not saying all AC/Jazz pilots are Jaded but lots seem to be.

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Actually, Tango ushered in the one-way fares that are part of AC's growing success, and ZIP ushered in the labor agreements that are part of AC's growing success. Both became redundant when AC achieved the lower labor costs through CCAA. Then Zip costs could be applied across the airline, so why have a separate discount carrier?

Can you put a dollar figure on the success of Tango and Zip for us all, Dagger? rolleyes.gif

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Can you put a dollar figure on the success of Tango and Zip for us all, Dagger? rolleyes.gif

The difference between success and failure from this point going forward.

Air Canada could not succeed as the 'legacy' carrier it was. It had to morph to something new that could.

Tango showed that people would accept fewer amenities and have lower expectations if the fare was low enough and the terms were spelled out in advance. AC then surmised that Tango did not need to be a seperate aircraft or cabin class, but just a seperate fare class. It worked.

Zip was to show to the Air Canada people, not the public what could be done and what was needed to be done to realign the company. The Tango pricing was expanded upon to create the 5 fare classes that we have learned to love. They also learned that it was possible to remove the fences of Saturday night stays and rigid advance purchase and still make it as an airline.

The doors of the Air Canada HQ building have seen many, many other airlines world-wide who have come to find out what is the secret of changing the formula for airline structuring and to be able to market and sell tickets at different prices on the same aircraft.

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The genesis story of Zip and Tango is very different, depending on where one was sitting during the exercise.

Consider this version of events. At the time of formation of Tango and Zip, Collenette could not decide if he wanted AC to be able to compete with anyone. Predatory pricing with Von Fink and complaints with Mr. Hood all created a very uncertain situation.

AC did not want to create Zip initially, because the duplication in overhead was huge. They did, however, need to create a 'fighting brand' with a lower cost structure so they could compete on routes with the new lower cost entrants without fear of another federal intervention. Since there was little logic to these interventions, predicting what the Minister would accept proved impossible. So, AC created both Tango and Zip. If one was stopped, the basis for that intervention would hopefully prove the case for the other's continuance.

We all see how things unfolded, and I for one think the company has done pretty well to learn what they could and apply it. So, in a way, both Zip and Tango succeeded in what they were meant to do. Neither were required post CCAA, but they did provide valuable direction on where the airline had to go, and indeed was capable of going, during the restructuring.

For your consideration

Vs

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Good analysis Vsplat with a new twist or two to the story. On hearing you speak it, I can see the political side also.

The thing that people get all caught up in is seeing the world as black or white. I got news for them, there are a lot of shades of grey and the spectrum changes over time. The thing to grasp is how and why the shape and direction changes as it must to survive.

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You guys must have built up an alergy to blue... 

Look folks, EVERY FLIPPIN' AIRLINE USES WHITE!

...The baby blue is unique, and looks flippin' awesome

EMB 175

I think that it's actually the swanky white fuselage.....somebody came to their senses and made it look great. Nice plane..... wink.gif

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