Guest Sammy Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 As mostly a voyeur of this forum I must say I used to enjoy reading threads and getting caught up on news and updates pertaining to our industry. Over the past months the AEF has become nothing but a bashing groud and IMHO the posts have become...... personal, uninformative, verbal diarrea, and no longer worth the effort. There were some excellent posters here whose posts I would read always...thanks, Kip, DR1, Gerlam, Neo, E-Handle...etc. your posts were always well thought out and you stayed away from the juvenile headhunting going back and forth these days. I planned to go on about how pathetic and hypocritical some of these last posts were pertaining to gov't subsidies & regulating of new airlines coming into the industry in Canada, or no matter how bad the WJ advertising campaign was it sure did seem lots of people used the "Westjetticate" term on this forum, but whats the sense, seems most of the people whose feedback I would actually read and respect have "left the building". This fourm has taken on a certain character lately I think its gone to the DAWG's. I am a WestJet pilot and am proud to be part of this great company it has afforded me opportunities I could have never dreamd of. I also believe these opportunities will continue for in my view we provide the best service with the best product on the market today. We are not without making mistakes, nobody is, and there will be more, as there will be for AC, Canjet.... etc. I am pulling the ejection handle on the forum and encourage all WJ'ers to do the same, save the cost and buy yourself a good bottle of wine and put your energy to better use. These people will continue to bash but if your not posting they will return to bashing each other as they have before, believe me if you punt this forum you'll be much better off. You understand the opportunities ahead for WestJet why should you waste your time here.....try it you'll see. Well time to clean out the Bar-B, and paint the fence, I've spent too much time here already! Sammy........Out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Sorry to see you go like that Sammy. Though I think you're being far too harsh, you're bang on with some of what you said. If you do happen to stop by to see if you got any response, maybe you might explain something for me? Why is it better to leave and let the dogs destroy the room, than it is to stay and contribute to tidying up? If you've found value here in the past, don't you think there might be again if some small effort is made to pitch in? ...and why is it important to you that other WJ folks join you in thumbing your nose at those of us who remain? Isn't that pretty much like kicking some dirt around yourself? I don't think they've all left the building at all... maybe Neo has, which is a loss, but he changed careers and is presumed to be busy with his grapes. People do take breaks from this sort of thing from time to time... doesn't mean they won't be around when the mood strikes. Cheers, Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 ah, he didn't say it three times so he's still here somewhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIP Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 And here I thought this place was like your first morning coffee - - - You just gotta have it. Contrary to all the sniping, this place is still the premier spot for the up to date Gen on what is happening in the industry particularily in Canada. A thick skin is mandatory however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickle Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out. I have a certain amount of respect for some of the posters from WestJet. You are correct that as of late that this forum board seems to be a place for the various airlines to dump all over each other. I would think that if they put some moderators in place to control some of the discussions that it could be much more than it is. It should be a place to discuss the industry and a place where the industry news can be viewed at a glance. Too bad it is not. I am a proud AC employee but I have to agree with some here that feel that Dagger has gone from a fierce AC promoter to a WS basher. That I find quite unfortuneate as his posts from several months ago were much more balanced. Too bad that so many posters on the other side of the fence bite. Having said all of that, I do recall that when AC had gone into CCAA there were many posters from the WS side that relished in giving it to the AC employees on here. Our demise via liquidation was imminent. WS appears to be going through some growing pains and legal issues and are reminded of it here. They have a hard time accepting that. It does hurt just like it did for a number of AC employees that stuck through here in the CCAA debacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAYDAY Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Sammy, Let me get this straight. You are leaving the forum because people are Westjet bashing? If you have participated in this forum for any length of time, you would remember all of the AC, JGO, TS, etc. bashing that went on here (much of it from your colleagues). I personally find the forum very entertaining. There are some "characters" on here but reading it for the most part reminds of sitting in a barber shop or pub. What did you expect from the forum? It is your decision to leave the forum but encouraging all Westjet pilots to leave with you is weak at best. Good riddance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 One must realise that this board is like a glass of wine in your belly. At first it is a enjoyable indulgence that amuses you. Then it becomes relaxing and opens your mind to think thoughts of an expanded nature. The tongue then becomes released and feels the need to express itself, in a generally harmless fashion, but as the wine is consumed in greater and greater quantities,,,, Well that's when the trouble starts. Next thing you know, they're inviting the rum and tequila who just don't know how to contain themselves. Oh, sure, like any good host, you try to introduce some solid food into the mix to calm things down, but we all know how that ends up.... Everyone rushing for the exit in any way they can. And like the day after that starting glass of wine, this board too occasionally suffers the odd hangover. This is when the posts are quiet and reflective. Everyone claims that they won't ever do that again But we all know better, don't we Enjoy your sips Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 80 Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 The problem as I see it, and it isn't limited to this forum, this industry or this country is that everything is turned into a zero-sum game. People fell that for them to win, others have to lose. People can't seem to find satisfaction in their own acomplishment anymore, they have to see someone else fail at the same time. It seems over the past 25 years, people have become more blood thirsty and it spills over into everything. From this, to parents pulling guns at kids football games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccairspace Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 One must realise that this board is like a glass of wine in your belly. At first it is a enjoyable indulgence that amuses you. Then it becomes relaxing and opens your mind to think thoughts of an expanded nature. The tongue then becomes released and feels the need to express itself, in a generally harmless fashion, but as the wine is consumed in greater and greater quantities,,,, Well that's when the trouble starts. Next thing you know, they're inviting the rum and tequila who just don't know how to contain themselves. Oh, sure, like any good host, you try to introduce some solid food into the mix to calm things down, but we all know how that ends up.... Everyone rushing for the exit in any way they can. And like the day after that starting glass of wine, this board too occasionally suffers the odd hangover. This is when the posts are quiet and reflective. Everyone claims that they won't ever do that again But we all know better, don't we Enjoy your sips Iceman Rather eloquent, Iceman... No sips prior to writing that prose. Have a great weekend. ccairspace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Sammy if you are still around, can you send me a PM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fester Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Super 80 is bang on. People seem to have so little self-confidence and so much insecurity that so many of them feel the need to belittle the next guy in hopes their own percieved mediocrity will gain a (comparative) boost. Rather pathetic, but rather symptomatic in our society. So what to do? Step one is to admit it, then you're half-way home on the road to recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 With only 23 posts, he sure wasn't around long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Gee, all these mean nasty people here that don`t agree with poor Sammy, the only thing to do must be to take your ball and go home... See Ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 A thick skin is mandatory however. A little professionalism and respect would be nice too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANT Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 I have never hidden that I am a Wj employee or what I do at WJ. I am proud to a WJ employee at the same time I am proud of AC's rep in the world market. There are some people that should be at AC and some people that should be at WJ. The culture is different at both companies. I wish both luck and happiness. I agree with Sammy I used to enjoy sititng and reading peoples comments on the industry, of late however it has got into bashing from all sides. I used to spend about an hour a day just reading making comments on hiring at WJ (my knowledge base) and such things as of late I can whizz thru in about 10 minutes as I bypass all the bashing from ALL sides. We are all in the same industry doing the best job we can. let us support each other. Constructive comments as well as positive debate is what this forum should be about. We all want the best for the industry, we just all come at it from different sides that is what life is about. Grant Bestwick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanishing point Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 I enjoy having a look at this forum and posting occasionally but do get a bit tired of the "bashing" that goes on. However, as I like to think I still have choices, I can pass over those posts and read the informative ones. For the most part, insults, "pot-stirring" or flat-out name calling is mainly done to get a reaction or to make the poster feel better about themselves by putting down someone/thing else. If there is no reply or reaction, what has that poster gained? Sure, you then get the "What.....can't take a little bantering?" or something along those lines. Maybe the person on the receiving end doesn't want to lower themselves to those standards. Some people will always have a go at others just to pick a fight. That's human nature. I've thought about leaving this forum but as stated, it is a great site to hear (read) what's on people's minds and what's going on in the industry. Not meant to sound insulting but sometimes it's like a car wreck here. You don't want to look but you can't help it. I just spent some time replying to a post about contact/visual approaches. If what I said helps out the poster, great. That is what this forum is all about. Now.............I suggest we all just get out of the house and enjoy the weekend. Don't forget Mother's day tomorrow! Give your Mom a hug and say thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp fa Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Sammy, and others, I feel the same way, but I guess I am resigning myself to the fact that this forum represents real life in that there are good people, and there are morons, and you just have to weed out who you associate with. I don't understand the need to bash the competition, or anyone else for that matter, and I totally understand your frustration. But if you think this is difficult, you should try reading the bashing when you're not sure if your airline is on the verge of who-knows-what, and you're not even sure if your pension is going to be intact. Whether you decide to keep lurking or not, all the best to you anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 The way I see it, On the maintenance side of things anyhow. I know most of the guys that work at other companies. I have worked for them, they have worked for me and we have worked for someone else together. I can prpbably walk in to any hanger in YYZ and see someone I have worked with at some point in my career. This is a SMALL industry. Be nice to everyone, they could be your boss tomorrow. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 It is true that this forum was more enjoyable and informative many months ago. It has almost become as interesting as an old joke told over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccairspace Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 It is true that this forum was more enjoyable and informative many months ago. It has almost become as interesting as an old joke told over and over. When I read that, I was reminded of a television commercial that I saw last evening: two children (about 6 and 8 years old) sitting at a picnic bench and the younger boy is eating a vanilla flavoured Oreo cookie. The older boy, looking on, states, in a tone of voice implying wisdom and a wistfulness for days gone by, something along the lines of, "When I was a kid, Oreos were always chocolate." It struck me that when I first made the leap from lurker to poster... sometime back at the turn of the century, when kids still walked to school, uphill, through raging blizzards after completing two hours of chores before breakfast... it was to join a thread exactly like this one. I am starting to get the feeling that this is a recurrent theme. Back then, when I was a much, much younger AEFer , I seem to rermember that I suggested that one simply needs to pick through the chaff to find the nutritious kernels of wheat. Nothing has changed This is a different forum from the others I have dropped in on. It seems somehow less impersonal, which is probably why tempers fly on occasion. But it will only be as good as the posters who write and the threads that they bring to the screen. I miss some of the posters who have gone, and I wish we dould do more to encourage the new ones when they arrive. You can be a very intimidating bunch of people to the uninitiated... like quiet, shy, unpresupposing old fumblers like me. I hope Sammy has taken the time to read where his thread went, but he may have simply signed off. Speaking of "Signed off", does anyone know what happened to Jiminy? I miss his perusal of the day's headlines. TTFN ccairspace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newgirl Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 I have always learned something new everyday from this forum. Good or bad. No matter who you work for in this industry , when you ask for advice someone always comes through. I've read posts that have made me laugh,, made me cry and just down right made me spit and hiss in fury. Thick skins surely do help you in this forum as it can be intimidating for the newcomer. What I have enjoyed in this forum is that people from all areas of this industry post. If we don't agree on certain subjects so be it! Maybe we'll agree on the next issue. Everybody's imput is important from the ground workers , pilots , inflight , travel agents to the ATC people etc etc etc. Personally I'd rather tune in to the latest dispute between AC and WS on this forum than the crap on TV. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dmb Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 As mostly a voyeur of this forum I must say I used to enjoy reading threads and getting caught up on news and updates pertaining to our industry. Over the past months the AEF has become nothing but a bashing groud and IMHO the posts have become...... personal, uninformative, verbal diarrea, and no longer worth the effort. There were some excellent posters here whose posts I would read always...thanks, Kip, DR1, Gerlam, Neo, E-Handle...etc. your posts were always well thought out and you stayed away from the juvenile headhunting going back and forth these days. I planned to go on about how pathetic and hypocritical some of these last posts were pertaining to gov't subsidies & regulating of new airlines coming into the industry in Canada, or no matter how bad the WJ advertising campaign was it sure did seem lots of people used the "Westjetticate" term on this forum, but whats the sense, seems most of the people whose feedback I would actually read and respect have "left the building". This fourm has taken on a certain character lately I think its gone to the DAWG's. I am a WestJet pilot and am proud to be part of this great company it has afforded me opportunities I could have never dreamd of. I also believe these opportunities will continue for in my view we provide the best service with the best product on the market today. We are not without making mistakes, nobody is, and there will be more, as there will be for AC, Canjet.... etc. I am pulling the ejection handle on the forum and encourage all WJ'ers to do the same, save the cost and buy yourself a good bottle of wine and put your energy to better use. These people will continue to bash but if your not posting they will return to bashing each other as they have before, believe me if you punt this forum you'll be much better off. You understand the opportunities ahead for WestJet why should you waste your time here.....try it you'll see. Well time to clean out the Bar-B, and paint the fence, I've spent too much time here already! Sammy........Out! And let me tell you my friends, that, being French from Quebec on this forum does not help either... Salut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 And let me tell you my friends, that, being French from Quebec on this forum does not help either... Salut Oh come now......I've been here a pretty long time and I don't recall anyone personally attacking you, or anyone else because of their race, religion, creed or ethnicity. Certainly there are some that have strong feelings about the politics in this country and may be biais against some of the political actions with regard to Quebec/the Bloc etc but ...hey..it's a free country and I am sure there are many all over the country that have strong views about different regions. Just remember there are radicals in all sectors of Canada but tolerance is something you learn ...it is not a birthright. If your comment has to do with your reading/writing of the English language then perhaps I can see, to a very small degree, your point but it appears to me that you are holding your own very well. The most essential quality for an AEF forum member is a built-in, shockproof sh$t detector. This is a members radar and all tolerant forum members have, or soon acquire, this quality. Have a nice week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 And let me tell you my friends, that, being French from Quebec on this forum does not help either... Salut Sure it does...you get an extra 10 minutes to respond or retract statements then the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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