Guest Fax Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sustainable Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 I'm having difficulty searching out any of Danny Dog's postings. Perhaps Mr. Hill has spend some of his leave time wearing out the delete key on his computer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Databus Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Nah...not Mav., he's an FE boy...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fax Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neo Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 How will you know if an anonymous poster is who they say they are, and what they're saying is genuine? And if you don't know that for a fact, Troll Alerts can do more harm than good. The danger is, (and we've seen this here on AEF) that people starting shouting "Troll Alert" simply because they find the poster's opinion objectionable. Before you know it, everyone's shouting it whenever they read something that annoys them. Labels are often inaccurate. I'd rather that people exercise their own discretion on which posters to read and which to ignore. Use your wits. ANYONE who posts here anonymously could be lying about their identity, and could have an agenda about which you know nothing. Treat every post from a person like that with the appropriate skepticism. neo/Richard Roskell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp fa Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Good point Richard... if that's who you really are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flapsforty Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Dagger, You claim to be a knowledgeable guy. Do you know much about Clive? What do you think he would have to say if he caught wind of some exec in his company posting on forum web sites and stirring up s$it? Do you that person would continue? Honestly, you guys give Mark a lot of credit for being a smart guy. Don't you think he would be smart enough to cover his tracks if he were doing such things as AC claims? Don't you think he would be well of the ramifications of his actions? I'm sorry but our board of directors looks sqeaky clean by reputation and I can't for one minute believe anyone would condone such actions from anyone in the company. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 To be honest, I've met Clive twice. I don't know enough about his ethical makeup to assume anything except innocent until proven guilty. I do see, however, that on a number of occasions Clive has said things which lack a certain class. An example, his rant against Jetsgo at that Florida aviation conference not long ago. It was an attack on their integrity, rather than making a positive case for WJ. It may betray a tendency on Clive's part to go down in the gutter. I don't believe for five seconds, however, that what Hill did was unknown to Clive Beddoe. It is possible that Clive didn't see anything illegal in this, and he may be right. It's for the courts to decide. Now, whether it was ethical behaviour is another matter. It is certainly embarassing. Key Westjet shareholders like the Teachers Pension Fund are committed advocates of good corporate governance practices, and I would submit that some of the things Hill stands accused of, if proven, violate the guidelines of good corporate governance. The fact Hill is alleged to have disseminated his information to certain analysts and media could also constitute a violation of securities law outlawing selective disclosure. So I would expect some action to come out of this from the WJ board, even if it is just a code of conduct for management that would prohibit these kinds of practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 You have to wonder if the sudden drop in WJA yesterday was reflective of "shareholder" concern. It dropped over $2.00 a share in one day. It was on the rise due to the release re a pending "split". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deuce Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Do you think this info will be provided when the lawsuit goes to court? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Assaf Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 I was curious about whether extracting information from our employee site would be illegal or simply immoral. Our policies section does seem to make it clear about what uses are acceptable and what are not. It does specifically make referance to commercial use being a no no. Kudos to AC though for NOT penalizing all the rest of the legit users of the employee travel site over this apparant improper use. It is a great tool and much better than the old way of phoning and holding for hours on end or showing up at the airport and tying up an agent. Rob Assaf, whose handle is also my real name, imagine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neo Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 And as you can see, even when the poster is known, some of them are best treated with skepticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flapsforty Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Daggar, His 'lack of class' was meant to ward off potential investors in Jetsgo. AC would benefit from this as well. It wasn't meant as a dig to the employees but rather as a warning to the ivestment community. Lots of people attack MLs' integrity by the way. What about AC airing all of this in the papers including qoutes from Smith? Is this ethical or does it show integrity, trial by newspaper? Shouldn't all of this be done in a court of law? I think the Key word is "alleged". Until it goes to court and is proven either way it is nothing more than allegations. You shouldn't believe for a second that Clive would know about it or it would have been stopped right there. He knows about good corperate governace and runs WJ acordingly. How about if I give you another theory of the crime. A person in the company who was befriended by Steve Smith when he was at WJ is given the PIN number of our new marketing rep. He is told to use it from a WJ computer to track loads. He is then told to act insenced and to report to RM what is happening at WJ. As an employee he doesn't go to the BOD, Clive (whose door is always open), his manager, or ,the police, no, he goes to Smith. What an odd thing to do, unless it was planned that way. So I alledge RM and SS were really the unethical ones here, that no crime took place, that it was all a trap. Am I wrong in my allegations? Maybe I'll go to the Globe and Mail and tell them that story, and if they run it will it make it any more than an allegation? Let's wait and see what the courts have to say shall we. Then we'll both be informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flapsforty Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Daggar, His 'lack of class' was meant to ward off potential investors in Jetsgo. AC would benefit from this as well. It wasn't meant as a dig to the employees but rather as a warning to the ivestment community. Lots of people attack MLs' integrity by the way. What about AC airing all of this in the papers including qoutes from Smith? Is this ethical or does it show integrity, trial by newspaper? Shouldn't all of this be done in a court of law? I think the Key word is "alleged". Until it goes to court and is proven either way it is nothing more than allegations. You shouldn't believe for a second that Clive would know about it or it would have been stopped right there. He knows about good corperate governace and runs WJ acordingly. How about if I give you another theory of the crime. A person in the company who was befriended by Steve Smith when he was at WJ is given the PIN number of our new marketing rep. He is told to use it from a WJ computer to track loads. He is then told to act insenced and to report to RM what is happening at WJ. As an employee he doesn't go to the BOD, Clive (whose door is always open), his manager, or ,the police, no, he goes to Smith. What an odd thing to do, unless it was planned that way. So I alledge RM and SS were really the unethical ones here, that no crime took place, that it was all a trap. Am I wrong in my allegations? Maybe I'll go to the Globe and Mail and tell them that story, and if they run it will it make it any more than an allegation? Let's wait and see what the courts have to say shall we. Then we'll both be informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EX-WestJetter Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 As for the ethics of WestJet management, well...I've posted similar notes on Airlinecrew.net under the "Canadian charter and low cost airlines page". Despite the fluffy bunny image they sell to the public, WestJet is a business like any other. And like any other large corporation, it starts to resemble a Dilbert cartoon after a while in the way people act and treat each other (there are more than a few PHB at WJ, in other words). Pilots, FAs and CSAs at bases may only encounter the 'fluffy bunny' atmosphere, but as someone who's worked at the Head office and YYC hangar, the BS and politics doth fly. That being said it is one of the better companies to work for, but like any businessman, I wouldn't trust upper management and Clive as far as I could throw them. There are a few people here in YYC who've gotten burned by Clive. Just my $0.02 based on my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest airjetmech Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Maverick?? Not a chance... I have to see his beal on a regular basis!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sustainable Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Any idea why Bill Lamberton left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fido Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Maybe he was talking to Steve Smith??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFG Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Hi, Dagger - I hope the more crafty eyed among us other than yourself don't include me ... er, Atlas, once ... on your list. That was my own alias for a while on JW's forum, 'til I dropped the anonymity, and then the handle altogether when the current hosts took over. I don't think I ever posted anything to justify even accidental inclusion in your pantheon ("Atlas", BTW, was a nod to the map reference - the more useful for locating some of my domociles over the years). Re: "... if any of these guys can fly a plane...", who knows for sure, eh, but I do my best & apparently managed to fool the right people for 30-odd years. Regards, IFG (ex-Atlas) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFG Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Hi, Dagger - I hope the more crafty eyed among us other than yourself don't include me ... er, Atlas, once ... on your list. That was my own alias for a while on JW's forum, 'til I dropped the anonymity, and then the handle altogether when the current hosts took over. I don't think I ever posted anything to justify even accidental inclusion in your pantheon ("Atlas", BTW, was a nod to the map reference - the more useful for locating some of my domociles over the years). Re: "... if any of these guys can fly a plane...", who knows for sure, eh, but I do my best & apparently managed to fool the right people in five countries over 30-odd years. Regards, IFG (ex-Atlas) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFG Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Hi, Dagger - I hope the more crafty eyed among us other than yourself don't include me ... er, Atlas, once ... on your list. That was my own alias for a while on JW's forum, 'til I dropped the anonymity, and then the handle altogether when the current hosts took over. I don't think I ever posted anything to justify even accidental inclusion in your pantheon ("Atlas", BTW, was a nod to the map reference - the more useful for locating some of my domociles over the years). Re: "... if any of these guys can fly a plane...", who knows for sure, eh, but I do my best & apparently managed to fool the right people in five countries over 30-odd years. Regards, IFG (ex-Atlas) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Sounds like "spy vs spy" plot to me. :-p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flapsforty Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 My point, exactly. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Clive took over Bill's position (still is?), and word from a friend of mine was that the department needed a "change". Whether or not that means Bill's departure was performance related, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dxr Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 I believe it had something to do with differing opinions regarding the timing of expansion into the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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