rudder Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 - No Reports from the Monitor since February 6. - No financial results from 2003 for AC (2003 ended almost 3 months ago). - TTI reviewing merits of investment in AC. - DIP lender refusing to extend timelines. - Ottawa talking to other carriers about ability to fill AC void. - Petitions and print ads attacking management and the equity investor. - No Plan of Arrangement in sight despite proximity to first anniversary of CCAA filing. - Creditors haven't even had their say yet. Is there anybody out there that thinks this is the script of a successful restructuring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchman Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Add in doubling of fuel prices predicted for the summer. I hate to agree with you, but if my name was Victor Li, I would be heading for the nearest emergency exit. Why would anyone want to get involved in a historically poor-return business with an obviously hostile workforce which doesn't seem to grasp the severity of what is going on? And if Victor Li walks, of course other savvy investors will laugh at him for his folly and be lining up to offer silver and gold to a desperate workforce with no other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Continuous Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 >> poor-return business with an obviously hostile workforce << Gee I wonder if the corporate decisions and policies made by the management would have anything to do with that? ... nawww couldn't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsplat Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 I'm not picking on you in particular, but yours is the sentiment that I feel has gridlocked the company. It doesn't matter whose fault it is. Milton will live just fine if AC fails. So will Rovenscu. How about the employees? Not the same answer. We have to carve out the best future from here on out. Park the baggage. It is too heavy and we need to be agile right now. Vs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Continuous Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Agreed ... what's done is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchman Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 I agree, VS. The "I'm going to shoot myself in the foot because I don't like Milton" attitude is all to prevalent. I compare Victor Li's position to that of someone buying a house that's just about to be foreclosed on. It's not exactly what he want's (I'm sure!) but it looks like it might spruce up with a couple of coats of paint. But, the current occupants are throwing tomatoes at him when he arrives to bring in an offer. I can see him saying "Hey... I didn't like it that much anyway. I'll wait till something else comes along or maybe pick up some of the pieces under power of sale". Trinity was quite clear with respect to both the pension deficit and the design of pension and benefit programs on page 5 of their offer to invest (http://www.achorizons.ca/en/issues/2003/CCAA/Documents/monitor%20report%2018%20exh%202.pdf). The two are not tied to each other and the satisfactory settlement of the funding issue alone does not satisfy the condition laid out there. This shouldn't be any suprise to union executives 4 months later. Victor Li is not coming back to the trough. He's just following through on a condition of his offer and, in fact, has backed off to the point where nobody currently working for AC is going to have to change anything about their pension plans. There's no question that it feels like "the company" is coming back for more after the concessions of last spring, but those were concessions necessary to keep operating. Victor Li's request (which, as I said, means really NOTHING, except to the non-airline divisions of the CAW) is just a condition of his putting his money in, not related in any way to what happened last spring. Victor Li's offer was something like... "I'll take it with the current collective agreements but I want to look at both the design and funding of the pension plans". He has not stepped over that line at any time and has not given any indication that he would be asking for concessions in other areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchman Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 http://www.achorizons.ca/en/issues/2003/CCAA/Documents/monitor%20report%2018%20exh%202.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SpeedStream Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Anything wrong with AC closing its doors and reopening the next day as the New Aircanada? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 I wonder how closely TTI is monitoring the financial results of the airline, month-in and month-out. -TTI reviewing merits of investment in AC. That could be a clear indication that things aren't going as planned, financially, or, it could simply be pure coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Boarding Card Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Wasn't that supposed to happen with C3, or was it Royal? It didn't happen, instead the head honcho went south and started USA3000 or whatever the flavour of the month is called! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest secondclasscat Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Canadian law prevents this from happening. It is to prevent union busting or creditor evasion. You can't restart the same business within a specified period of time (I think 1 year) & pretend it's a new company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Couple of things. The New Aircanada would not have any licences, AOCs, ticket stock (014 would be dead), interline agreements, supply contracts etc. etc. You would be talking months, not days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchman Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 I would say that people at every level of the company own a bit of our current situation. Nobody's hands are clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Wow... I don't agree with that at all.... I think since about 1989 there's been nothing but chaos that's been absolutely beyond any ability I might have to effect any change... Please tell me how all of our hands are dirty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Continuous Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 True ... and let's not forget our dear friend, Mr. David Collenette also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchman Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 ... probably shouldn't have put that last part in.... My meaning was in the first sentence... people at every level of the company, not everybody in the company. Not every manager is responsible, nor are all non-management employees free of blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Ok, I get it... thanks for the clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Virtual Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 "Adding in doubling of fuel prices predicted for the summer" may be an issue .... but if you own Husky Oil, might this not be as large an issue for Li as it might be for someone else?? At least they tend to be two businesses that 'complement' each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AME Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 If someone were to purchase JAZZ and ACTS in the sale, it would only take days to add widebodies to their OC (TC would be only too happy to approve it)not sure if they still have the ticket stock from any of the former regionals, but at one time each one had their own. ACTS has it's own AMO # and all of the necessary approvals in place already All that would be required is for an agreement with JAZZ's unions to allow for the hiring of short term contract people to crew the aircraft (which I don't think would be a problem) Although this is an unlikely senario,(and would be a little more complicated) it does show that it can be done. Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimer V Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 If you were a share holder of Husky i don't think you would like it if Air Canada was getting a deal on fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest simcoe Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 I'm sure Husky shareholders would be thrilled to subsidize Ar Canada by selling them oil at $25 bbl when the open market is $38. Remember the NEP? Give your head a shake...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Virtual Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 I'm not suggesting a deal... but AC would be a large, repeat customer burning the product every day and adding more each time a new route was added. A good quaranteed sale .... of course, only if it continues to survive and then, hopefully, thrive. After all, if you have to buy fuel, you may as well take the $ from one wallet and then put that $ back into your other one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Geminoid Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 TTI is monitoring VERY closely. AS part of the ongoing plan, AC has to meet monthly financial targets. You can bet TTI is right in the thick of evaluating results. Geminoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 The remark was that AC could close it's doors and start up tomorrow as AC new. Jazz and ACTs are sep. from AC in my opinion and I agree with you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigdig Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Hate to be the voice of reason, but that is not a sound basis for your conclusions. Sell to AC or sell to whoever..... get the best price!!! period. I just can't get over the rationalizations that people make at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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