Flying West Jet

[Kip Powick]

If you had read the entire thread you would have noticed that I posted that I am in the process of writing a draft of the two trips. I'll post them when I feel I have it ready.

Dissatisfaction with WJA ??? You and alot of others tend to read in "dissatisfaction" when one poses a question......did my aspirn question say I was dissatisfied with WJA??

Dissatisfaction with their answers concerning sports gear info...absolutely...but that does not mean dissatisfaction with the entire airline. Seems alot of people become super defensive about absolutely nothing very quickly. Seems it is OK to chuck crap at AC, or anyone else, but even hint at a phase of WJA ops that may not be totally acceptable to one individual, and one is branded as a dissident and told to seek transport elsewhere...so sad and so petty.

[Guest rattler]

Never did see any reason to question why one airline had different rules / service than another. Just accepted as part of their way of doing business. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[flybye]

...so sad and so petty.

.....so is this thread!

[Steam Driven]

"I was told that WJ will not provide oxygen for use onboard if a customer requires it, so they have to use another carrier if they wish to travel. Can anyone confirm or deny that? My Mother requires oxygen and was told just that."

I'll take a stab at your question here...

We do allow O2 on board. Many of our elderly guests come on board with their own O2 tanks.

The O2 we have on board is for emergency use only. If a guest is in dire straights and requires O2 we will of course "crack" a bottle and give them all that they require. Having done so we will then have to operate under the requirements of the Minimum Equipment List as to the required number of O2 bottles on board.

We do not provide therapeutic O2. If a guest has a condition that requires the use of Therapeutic O2, emphysema or a heart condition, for example, they are required to bring sufficient O2 for the trip. We will gladly affix their O2 bottle to the aircraft at their seat for them. If their journey involves a multi leg trip, and the length is such that their O2 is insufficient, we can arrange to have a replacement bottle at a station stop for the continuation of their journey. This must be set up prior to travel through our CCD. This can be done when making the reservation by advising that they will be bringing O2 with them.

Anyone using O2 on a regular basis is more than likely familiar with traveling with portable O2.

Cheers.

[newgirl]

Kip

I read your thread about trying to find answers to your questions on scuba gear. Although I hate to admit it , we at AC are quilty of the same lack of consistency.

Many times passengers had been given the wrong info on various situations which include cost of over-weight or excess baggage , the weight of carryon (just today they were told 25 lbs not true its 22.), change fees etc. Some passengers called back 3 times and got 3 different answers on various questions.

On AC's part , the discrepancies seem to result from very ambiguous information pages in our RES3 program or the difficulty in locating the info you want.

Now oxygen is another matter. 90% of the time , the oxygen arrives from YUL stores as promised but... 5% it hasn't. Sometimes the response is "lack of tanks-so why didn't you call the pax and rebook?" or " failed to ride which meant it was not put on the flight intended due to ?" Yes we have had many complaints over the years.

I am in WJAFA's camp when it comes to the many WJ's forumer's who tried to get answers for you. It sure seemed to me they were trying to find the answer for you.

WJAFA

With no disrespect intended but in respect to the jovial announcements made in the departure lounges - please!!!!

Our departure lounge is shared with NWA, AC ,WS and Transwest. As the 3 large carriers all have flights departing within mins. of each other it is very annoying when your agents tie up the only PA sytem with telling jokes for 4 mins. Meanwhile I am waiting to try and make my own boarding announcements of which are 45 sec. max!

I know it is your culture to have fun but it is also disrespectful to the other carriers who need to make their own announcements in due time. We have addressed this at the Airport Management meetings but with little success so far. Our next move may be leaving the pa system off the hook to prevent your staff from access to it or from walking over to your counter and pushing the off button mid conversation. I really don't want to do that but I will.

If you want to PM me on this , please feel free to do so.

[Spinnaker]

Our next move may be leaving the pa system off the hook to prevent your staff from access to it or from walking over to your counter and pushing the off button mid conversation. I really don't want to do that but I will.

If you want to PM me on this , please feel free to do so.

Wow, check out the fun police....

So, do your flights actually leave late? Or are you just annoyed at the jokes?

Merry Christmas.

[Kip Powick]

Below you will find my comments regarding the only two flights I have taken utilizing WJA, both charters, and based on my info, I would suspect the aircraft and crew were wet leased to AirTransat. Again, I would like to emphasize that the following comments are based my observations and the opinions expressed are purely mine.

YYZ – CYO

It is not easy for anyone to be at work, or at play, prior to dawn but I must say the WJA CSAs were very perky and upbeat when we arrived at T2 at 4:00am. There is no doubt they are highly motivated and always strive to put their best foot forward. Check-in was a breeze even though the agent had a hard time with the terminal. In the end she had to use three different computers and desks in order to print boarding passes and baggage tags, as there appeared to be a problem with the main computer. Not once did she loose her cool and was extremely pleasant through the entire frustrating procedure. The fact that we had two scuba gear bags was not even questioned and the entire check-in was painless. We were about the 10th couple to check in and I was surprised when we were offered the Emergency exit row as I thought surely the first individuals would have selected that row…needless to say, we took it.

Security was no problem however the individual who wanted to look at the scuba computers was in ill humor and it was very obvious that she was not a happy camper in the early hours. We stopped on the “cleared” side, grabbed an empty table at an unopened snack bar and Scuba 02 produced a few muffins, a couple of bananas and some cheese slices and we had an early breakfast as we had been up from about 1:00am that morning. ( it is a 2 hour drive to the airport). A few of the folks cast envious glances at our little picnic and try as I might, I could not sell one banana for $5.00.

We ambled down to gate 209 and were prepared to sit for an additional hour and a half prior to boarding when I suggested we “power-walk” throughout the terminal to kill some time. We wanted to walk for 45 minutes so off we set and the surprising thing we saw was a large number of GTAA personnel on duty at that time of the day….all doing absolutely nothing……just sitting around gabbing. Now we walked for 45 minutes, back and forth as far as we could go and on our last trip, none of the GTAA personnel had moved, still just sitting around. I suppose they have some function but I certainly didn’t see anyone doing any actual work. Talked to some of the “guests” that had driven in from YYB and Barrie as well as London, and most could not wait to get on the plane and catch some sleep.

Our smiling WJA gate agents showed up at about 6:15am and at about 6:35am we commenced boarding. The onboard crew were extremely pleasant and had to help a few people who thought row 29 would be at the front of the airplane. Nothing like watching people that don’t fly that often, totally confused when they enter an aircraft.

A few points here……. I still think 3 hours is too early for the customer/passengers/guests to show up for a flight. For both our departures, from YYZ and CYO, (and you know how slow some of the Caribbean countries can be with Passport control etc.) the total pax load had completed all requirements and had to wait in the gate area in excess of 1 hour and 45 minutes. Perhaps immediately after 911 the system was a lot slower but it seems to me that the 3 hours of allotted time is excessive.

As well, I think it would behoove ALL Airlines if a diagram of the interior seat layout were posted in the gate area so people would have an idea of where they were going to sit. Certainly there are diagrams on the Internet but not all persons know where to look or perhaps do not have Internet access. It would not be that expensive to have diagrams for each aircraft type available at the gate.

For boarding, you can’t beat UA system. Pax are boarded by the large number that is printed on their boarding card….For example rows 20-29 have a THREE imprinted on their card and are customers holding a boarding pass with THREE imprinted across it are boarded first. Rows 10-20 have a TWO imprinted on their boarding card and are boarded next and so on…Very simple and easy for the customers to understand. Most non-frequent flyers have a hard time finding their gate on a boarding card let alone their row and seat number…this system works extremely well and facilitates quick and easy boarding.

We all settled in and our cheerful crew welcomed us onboard, introduced themselves as well as naming the Captain and the F/O. Personally I found it a little too early in the morning to turn around and wave at the F/A in the back, as requested by the LEAD F/A on the PA. Here we received our first bit of humour or something that perhaps was supposed to be humour. The F/A on the PA seemed to have a hard time remembering where we were going…or perhaps she was pausing a long time after she said “ for our flight to”……..in hopes that the guests would participate in shouting out the destination name. Anyway it didn’t work and many were wondering if the crew was on the same page. It should also be remembered that most of the guests had been up in the wee hours of the morning and fun and games were really not on their minds. The Captain then came on the PA and gave an excellent pre-departure PA which included the reason for the normal “only in YYZ” taxi to the furthest r/w from the gate for departure. His PA was clear, concise and informative….very impressive.

Next came the “Emergency procedures PA”. Basically well done except as I have stated before, my personal opinion is that attempted humour should be eliminated. The O2 masks and “ placing in on yourself prior to assisting a child, or your whiny husband and/ or boyfriend” is my opinion degrading an important facet of the procedure. Again a few people chuckled and a few could be heard asking “what did she say ?”, thus missing other salient parts of the briefing. Again, just my opinion.

We pushed back exactly on time and made our way to the runway and departed. The climb and level off were non-events. Shortly after top of climb we were presented with a token breakfast. Probably the most pathetic meal I have ever had onboard an aircraft but it must be understood that this was not WJA doing. The meals are provided by the vacation tour companies, to their specifications and WJA has to hand out what has been passed to them. One carrot muffin, 6 grapes, and a ham and cheese sandwich the size of a golf ball. Thank goodness for the free beverages.

Shortly after the “meal” everyone drifted into slumber land as there was no video or audio entertainment on the 737-500. Here is where, in my opinion, the Captain erred in that he scared the crap out of all the sleepers when the PA came on as we flew by Cape Canaveral and he decided to tell us about it. Firstly, no one could see it, it was under cast, he admitted that, but I think if he had thought about it he would have realized that not many really cared, as the vast majority of the guests were asleep. A wee bit of a “guest comfort consideration” error but no big deal.

Prior to commencing descent the Captain came on the PA once more, gave an updated ETA, the latest weather and advised all that timepieces should be advanced one hour for local Cuba time. As an aside, 2 days after we arrived in Cayo Largo we met friends who had arrived the same day on Air Transat from YUL but had not been advised of the time change. They did not know there was a time change until we were discussing a meeting time at the Scuba shop and they were wondering where I was getting my time from. I advised then of the time change. In retrospect they had wondered for two days why, when they showed up for dinner at 8:30pm the crew was shutting down the dining room…… because the actual time was 9:30pm !!!!

We approached CYO from the North and the aircraft had to turn West and we were on a LH downwind which afforded everyone to get a good view of Cayo Largo. It was VFR and whether these turns were intentional or not, is not known, but if they were, it was well done and afforded everyone a spectacular view of the island.

All I would say about the landing was that the Lead F/A said that we should open the overhead bins with great care cause stuff surely must have shifted after that type of impact with the runway !!!

In summary, I felt the flight was very enjoyable and I think the F/As stayed away from the chuckle stuff when they realized that everyone was fairly well bagged and just wanted to be left alone. The onboard service was that expected from a group of professionals and all aspects of the food and drink service were well done. I personally talked to all members of the crew and they were like most every other airline crew were happy to be doing their job and they did have fun doing it.

CYO-YYZ

The 14 days passed quickly and we were jarred into the real world when, once again, we had to wait an excessive amount of time in the terminal in Cayo Largo as all guests were completely processed 1 hour and 40 minutes prior to departure. I had opted NOT to sit with Scuba 02 as I wanted to see if I could gather the feelings from other guests as to their mood while under WJA control. I was seated beside a middle-aged couple from Guelph and across from me was a retired individual from Niagara Falls. Once we were boarded we had about a 20-minute delay as the Flight Plan could not be received via the Cuban Fax machine and had to be sent via email, according to the PA from “someone”. You will note that I have written “someone”.

At this juncture, any of you that have read any of my mini reviews know that I have a real bug about keeping the customers informed, especially when the flight encounters other than normal operations. This is not to say that I advocate being on the PA every thirty seconds with an update, a reason, or explanation but in fairness to the customers I feel it is important to keep those that are paying the wages of the employees, the guests, in the information loop. Nothing is more reassuring to guests, be they frequent flyers or otherwise, than to hear a calm voice explaining, in layman’s terms, what is going on. With this in mind, I felt that the majority of PAs from the Lead FA and the cockpit crew on the return flight were sub par at best.

My reasoning. The first PA heard when onboard was from the male Lead F/A who introduced his co-workers by first name and, once again he requested the pax to turn around and wave at the F/A in the back, and then named the pilots in this manner….(names have been changed) “we have Mark up front and sitting beside him is Paul”. There was no mention as to who was the Captain and personally I found this manner of introducing the front end most unprofessional. The Captain has earned his rank and position and should be accorded the respect the title is due. While the Lead F/A might have found this manner of introducing the cockpit crew as cute, I for one, did not.

The Captain, or whoever was on the PA from the front, did not help the situation when he got on the PA and his initial PA, as well as EVERY subsequent PA from the cockpit, was prefaced with “this is the flight deck” and proceeded to make his initial presentation about why we were late departing. In my opinion it would have been an opportune time to introduce himself, his F/O, and give some pertinent details of the pending flight. We certainly had the time where he could have made one PA that would have satisfied all the requirements of an informative and friendly dissemination of information. Ok…if I criticize perhaps I should put forth a “fix”. My opinion only, but if I were the Captain I might have said……

“G’morning ladies and gentlemen, my name is BART SIMPSON and I am your captain for your flight back to the Great White North and sharing the cockpit duties with me is First Officer WYLIE COYOTE. On behalf of your associated tour companies as well as West Jet Airlines we would like to welcome you onboard and trust you had a wonderful stay in Cuba and are looking forward to your return to Canada for the Holiday Season.

We are experiencing a slight delay here as the Fax machine in Cayo Largo Flight Operations that is supposed to receive our flight plan from Canada has been acting up but I have been advised that we should have our paperwork shortly and be on our way in a few minutes.

While we have the time I would like to give you a bit of information about your flight. We will be departing to the East and anticipate a left turn toward the North and anticipate flying over Veradero on the main island of Cuba approximately 11 minutes after takeoff. Veradero is about 60 miles East of Havana. From that position we will head toward Florida and pass just slightly East of Miami and make US landfall at Jacksonville Florida. From that point we go almost due north to Savannah Georgia, over Pittsburgh Pennsylvania and start our descent into Toronto prior to passing Buffalo New York. Your scheduled arrival time in Toronto is 2:50pm and the correct time in Ontario is now 11:55am, there is a one hour time change between Cuba and Ontario. Your expected weather upon arrival is light winds out of the west with the possibility of snow showers and a forecast temperature of +3C.

We would also like to advise you that during our descent into Cayo Largo this morning we did encounter a few bumps so for your own safety and comfort we anticipate leaving the Seat Belt sign on until we reach our cruising altitude of 37000 feet.

Prior to our descent into Toronto I will give you a brief update on our arrival time and the latest weather report, in the meantime sit back and relax and enjoy the service from what we consider as the best Flight Attendants in the industry, Thank you for your attention.”

Now I fully realize that not everyone has the gift of the gab nor can everyone put together a “small” speech off the top of their head but, in my opinion, a well organized and informative PA imparts professionalism and is a positive reflection upon the entire crew.

Years ago I was an F/O and flying with a very young Captain on WDs A310. The Captain was a splendid fellow but his PAs were a disaster, as he couldn’t seem to organize his thoughts in a logical order and put them forth via the PA. On an overnighter in Gatwick we talked about CRM , the new airplane, the thrill of flying , and customer care. I broached the subject about PAs and he said he realized his were not good. I asked if he had ever used a “spit-board”. He said he had never heard of it. I explained that there were many pilots who had difficulty making a decent PA and in one VIP Squadron in the CF we devised a “spit-board”. It was merely a pre-typed PA briefing with room to fill in some blanks, that was laminated between two sheets of hard laminate and the speaker merely had to fill in the spaces with a grease pencil and when he was finished he would “ spit” on it and erase the info he had penciled in. Our next stop was YOW and we made a spit- board for him in the “ office center” in the hotel. He used it and as time progressed he became very familiar with the “patter” and about a year later he told me he had retired his spit-board and was grateful for me supplying the idea. Simple ideas for simple problems.

So here we are on the ground in Cayo Largo and the Lead F/A commences the Emergency Briefing. My comments still stands about adding humour into an Emergency briefing and this time the comment was that the “ emergency floor lighting was used in the event of a power interruption or it could be used as lighting for an impromptu floor show”.

I found that all PAs from this individual were done at lightening speed and at one point during the life vest demo he got so far ahead of himself that he had to stop, apologize and start over. The couple beside me kept muttering, “why does he talk so fast ?”

We trundled down the runway, got airborne and climbed to cruising altitude with the Seat Belt sign on. Many of the ladies were getting pretty antsy as they wanted to use the washrooms but the belt sign was on for what seemed an inordinate length of time….and it was smooth. We leveled off and shortly thereafter we received a PA..that started with “this is the flight deck” and were told “we were over Veradero and that we were estimating Toronto at 30 minutes past the hour”. What hour was not stated. In fact, at no time during any of the PAs was a local time given for our ETA, it was always before or after “the hour”….not really very informative. Occasionally the seatbelt sign would come on but no explanation was given. I have found that most airlines have a pilot come on the PA immediately after the light is switched on with a brief explanation as to why the Belt light is on, (anticipated turbulence as reported by traffic ahead or ATC advice etc.) and try to give an approximation of the duration. This gives those with a weak or full bladder an idea of how long they have to hold it.

I chuckled when the box lunch was presented. Here we were in a West Jet airplane, using AirTransat tickets and boarding with a Boarding Pass that said we paid the exit fee from Cuba in American Dollars, (not acceptable anymore, have to use Pesos) and the Chock full of Nuts Brownie had a label on it that said JAZZ. The meal on the return leg was great. It consisted of a pasta salad with large pieces of chicken, a three bean salad, fresh roll and butter as well as the brownie and a slice of cheese…much better that the southern meal. Once again the beverages, excluding alcohol, were complimentary. I was impressed with the method of serving the customers, as it was closer in respect to that grand old airline called Wardair. The F/As took drink orders and then returned with trays and offered the drink you had requested. No trolley service. As well, the box lunches were not stacked on a trolley and wheeled down the aisle, rather each F/A carried about 6 or 7 down the aisle and handed them out. I thought it was much classier than the elbow banging trolley that one normally sees onboard. The F/A that worked our section was a perky young lady and I found her demeanor very fetching, always smiling and had something nice to say. It was an enjoyable mealtime for all. About an hour later, “guests” were offered another drink and those shortbread cookies that I remember eating 15 years ago…some things never change.

We started our descent and were told “from the flight deck” that we would be arriving at “25 after the hour”…nuff said about the airborne PAs

The landing was slick and on my scale rated about a 9.8, once again thunderous applause as we rolled out…I still wonder why the folks do that…grateful to be on the ground safely or appreciation for a job well done???

We headed for gate 229 and upon arrival the “wheels began to fall off”. The seatbelt sign was shut off and the aisles filled with those eager to get off ….but……there was a gate problem….it wouldn’t move to the airplane. At one point there were 5 persons attempting to get the gate to the aircraft, each feeling they would have the magic touch.

Word finally filtered back that they would have to get a tow bar, hook it up and push back the aircraft and tow it to another gate. This was accomplished within the space of one hour and during this entire time there was not one informative PA from the “flight deck”. Now I know someone was up there cause someone had to release the brakes and turn on the seatbelt light but there were no voices from the pointy end. Lest you feel I am blaming WJA for the gate failure, be advised that I am not. It certainly is not WJA fault that the GTTA can not maintain their gates in working order, however the lack of information coming from the “flight deck” did have me wondering what was going on.

Other than the my personal hang-up about the lack of informative PAs and humour in Emergency briefings, I found the flight to be most enjoyable, even though it meant returning to sub-zero temperatures. The F/As were cheerful, did their jobs well and certainly went out of their way to ensure the guests were happy. I will admit I have not fully accepted the rah-rah culture as practiced by WJA but in the end, does it matter ???…I think not…..to each their own. Reluctantly, I will admit the joke of the day was very, very good.

I think all airline employees of every airline are passionate about their job and protective, as well as defensive, about their company and that is a good thing, however in reality, I suppose there is no such thing as the perfect airline as every company appears to be in a state of perpetual flux and hopefully employees of every airline strive, in their own personal way, to make their company the best. In the end the winners are not only the customers, but the employees as well.

Tin hat, respirator, and torch on as I retreat to the inner bowels of the dank bunker…

[13820]

So what was the joke of the day? for those that havn't heard it yet.

Thanks for a good story Kip, hope you time in CYO was good. Pictures look nice.

[AIP]

I'll take a stab at your question here...

We do allow O2 on board. Many of our elderly guests come on board with their own O2 tanks.

The O2 we have on board is for emergency use only. If a guest is in dire straights and requires O2 we will of course "crack" a bottle and give them all that they require. Having done so we will then have to operate under the requirements of the Minimum Equipment List as to the required number of O2 bottles on board.

We do not provide therapeutic O2. If a guest has a condition that requires the use of Therapeutic O2, emphysema or a heart condition, for example, they are required to bring sufficient O2 for the trip. We will gladly affix their O2 bottle to the aircraft at their seat for them. If their journey involves a multi leg trip, and the length is such that their O2 is insufficient, we can arrange to have a replacement bottle at a station stop for the continuation of their journey. This must be set up prior to travel through our CCD. This can be done when making the reservation by advising that they will be bringing O2 with them.

Anyone using O2 on a regular basis is more than likely familiar with traveling with portable O2.

Cheers.

Just curious, how does WJ handle OTHER oxygen that people bring on board.

It must be classified as DG does it not ? ? ?

Thanks

[MURRAY]

Thanks for the info., Kip. I'll have to make sure that everybody in YYZ ATC hears about the flattering PA's.

[manwest]

A well balanced and informative post Kip.

Thanks

[Croc Dundee]

737-500? Must've been Canjet you were flying!

I am glad it was a safe and enjoyable trip.

[CanadaEH]

Hey Kip, glad to see you enjoyed at least parts of your flights.

The last three airlines I've flown on - Westjet, Air Transat, Harmony - have all had their moments. My flights on Air Transat (YVRLGW and LGWYVR) were the most uncomfortable flights I have ever been on. So uncomfortable that I vowed never to fly Air Transat again (although I would if I needed to fly tomorrow) . My flights on Harmony (YVRHNL and HNLYVR) were probably better than any flight I've had on Westjet.

The only different between Harmony and any flight I take on Westjet was that I wanted to go into my vacation with an open mind and not judge anything. I think because of that, I enjoyed my flights that much more. In hindsight, there were no announcements from the cockpit on my return flight, the TV's had a technical problem for about 30 minutes, the TV in front of me was flickering the entire flight, and we had no duty-free available YVRHNL. Like I said, I wanted to keep an open mind and because of that all of those minor "glitches" didn't phase me.

I suppose that being a retired pilot you'd be a little more aware of anything to do with the pilots and there's nothing wrong with that. I suppose an FA would do the same towards the FA's of his/her flight too.

It's like you said: to each their own. From the sounds of things you were impressed with the attitudes of our employees, and I think that is what matters most.

[J.O.]

Very informative post, Kip. You may have missed your calling though, as it seems to me you would have made an excellent communications consultant! I have to agree with you about the safety demos. There are many other opportunities to toss in some humour. Safety information should be treated as sacrosanct. Then again, I'm a safety officer, so what do you expect?

CanadaEh:

You mentioned that there was no duty free available on your HMY flight to HNL. I am going to assume that you pre-cleared US Customs at YVR. If so, you were technically already on US soil, and therefore, could not purchase duty free once there. That's why the Duty Free shop is just before US Customs at YVR.

Jeff

[CanadaEH]

You mentioned that there was no duty free available on your HMY flight to HNL. I am going to assume that you pre-cleared US Customs at YVR. If so, you were technically already on US soil, and therefore, could not purchase duty free once there. That's why the Duty Free shop is just before US Customs at YVR.

I failed to mention that I had no duty-free because CARA was on strike.

[13820]

OK Kip,

If you won't post the joke of the day from your flight. I will have to post the joke of the day from the booking line(on hold).

Did you hear about the guy at the orange factory.

He got CANNED

He couldn't CONCENTRATE

[CanadaEH]

I personally like: why do they have FA's onboard?

Because they couldn't fit the pop machines through the door.

[Kip Powick]

13820

Sorry, about the JOKE OF THE DAY…I forgot to add that after your request.

SLIGHTLY EMBELLISHED by me…

Some dogs were out walking when they came upon a beautiful and well-coiffured poodle. They all wanted to “take her out”. She said she would go out with the dog that used the words “cheese” and “ liver” in the most imaginative way.

The bulldog said. “ I love liver and cheese so will you go out with me please?” The poodle thought that was OK but she expected more.

The Spaniel said, “ Liver and cheese, I’ll get some and you I will please.” The poodle smiled but was still not happy

Suddenly a Mexican Chihuahua came around the corner and said. “Eh, hombres, liver alone, cheese mine ! ”.

G-R-O-A-N.....