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Kip Powick

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Re - the Thread Header......Coming soon to this forum....hey...I just got home tonight biggrin.gif BUT...I do have a question for any pilot from any airline.......

I had a headache on the way back from CYO this afternoon and asked the "WJ Incharge" for a couple of aspirns/Tylenol or whatever...........

"No way", he said...we are not allowed to dispense drugs on board the aircraft and we don't carry any in the airplane.

I said,"You don't even have any aspirns in the First Aid Kit ???"

He replied....."No, we don't carry any." ph34r.gif

Maybe I'm wrong but we always carried aspirns.Tylenol in little packets when I was flying and if I remember correctly, if the First Aid Kit was opened the cabin crew made an entry in their log/maintenace book.

Have the rules changed???

Just curious.

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Kip.

At WJ we honestly don't carry any pain meds on board except for in the Emergency Medical Kit which can only be open and/or used by a medical doctor.

I'm not sure why it's different with us, but we were told in training @ WJ to explain to guests that we don't give out pain meds due to the possible legal implications if something were to go wrong (ie: unknown allergy).

That's all the insight I can give you on that.. not sure why you asked the pilots since they don't give the tylenol/asa/ibuprofin out to guests... the FA's do smile.gif

looking forward to your account of your trip,

wjafa

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Maybe I'm wrong but we always carried aspirns.Tylenol in little packets when I was flying and if I remember correctly, if the First Aid Kit was opened the cabin crew made an entry in their log/maintenace book.

Have the rules changed???

Hey Kip...

No, the rules haven't changed. The content requirements for first aid kits are specified in the AOHS Regulations and you can view them at this link. There is no requirement for the kit to carry aspirin.

There is no requirement to carry any in the emergency medical kit either.

That being said, some operators used to have "comfort kits" available that they could use to provide individual bandaids or other items to avoid having to break the seal on the first aid kit and then be subject to operating under MEL provisions.

However, I'm fairly certain that nowadays most company's won't provide medication (even something as seemingly benign as aspirin or Tylenol) to passengers for fear of a negative reaction to the medication resulting in a law suit.

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This is some wacky world we're livin' in! You mean to tell me that if I ask you for an aspirin, and it turns out it makes me sick, you could be liable? Even though I asked for it? blink.gif Good golly.... dry.gif

BTW...WJAFA... Kip asked the FA in charge, not the pilots... and re: "they don't give the tylenol/asa/ibuprofin out to guests... the FA's do" ...No, apparently they don't. tongue.gif

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Kip.

That's all the insight I can give you on that.. not sure why you asked the pilots since they don't give the tylenol/asa/ibuprofin out to guests... the FA's do smile.gif

wjafa

Think you misread my post....never said I asked the pilots. I asked the WJ Incharge

Not sure what you call the lead F/A...come on now...do you really think I would ask the pilots???? ohmy.gif Aren't they locked up in the pointy end icon_question.gif

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I didn't misread. I read where you said you asked the "incharge" (which at WJ there is none, since there is no seniority, we have a "lead" which is chosen randomly, by the crew each day, but I digress....)

BUT...I do have a question for any pilot from any airline.......

I had a headache on the way back from CYO this afternoon and asked the "WJ Incharge" for a couple of aspirns/Tylenol or whatever...........

that is where I read "I do have a question for any pilot from any airline......."

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I didn't misread.  I read where you said you asked the "incharge" (which at WJ there is none, since there is no seniority, we have a "lead" which is chosen randomly, by the crew each day, but I digress....)

Hi wjfa...

Actually, you do have an "incharge". The position is a regulatory one, not based on seniority... biggrin.gif

CAR 705.105 - Designation of In-charge Flight Attendant

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OK...understood. That is one of the problems with attempting to compose a question without generating any misunderstandings through this medium.....

The two flights???? If you have been on AEF for any length of time you will realize I call it like I see it and having said that, I want to take a day or two and put it down in draft form before I post my comments. I would like to emphasize that the opinions expressed are mine, and mine only.

You aren't going to like all the comments but the important thing to remember is that my impressions/comments/opinions are based on what I perceive as the perfect flight and that perception of perfection may not shared by WJ or, for that matter, any other airline employee. My comments are meant, not as a criticism of any one particular airline, or individual, but merely observations from one who has spent his lifetime in the aviation world, but not totally in the airline industry.

As a "teaser" and I will elaborate later...........there is one thing that really does irk me, and it was discussed at length on other threads, and that is taking any portion of the predeparture "Emergency" briefing and turning it into an attempt at humour at the expense of the seriousness of the "guests" really understanding what they are to do in an "emergency".

The impression that crosses my mind when this happens is...."first and foremost, how good are these people, (cabin crew), going to be in a "real" emergency, and secondly, would they be using this method if they knew a TC Inspector was onboard?"

G'nite for now.

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Hi Kip,

We still carry Tylenol on board and are more than happy to give it to anybody who asks. We are not allowed to administer the medication though as that can have legal repercussions should something go wrong. Obviously, we can't give it to unaccompanied minors, but if an adult asks for a Tylenol or aspirin, we can hand them a little packet of 2 tablets with a glass of water and they're on their own after that. If it's OK for us to do so, I can't understand why WJ cannot. Maybe they're just a little overly cautious.

At AC we have 3 kinds of kits. The Doctor's kit which is under lock and key and can only be used by a Medical Doctor or an fa under the direction of MedLink, our ground-based medical advisors that are on call 24-7. It's got the heavy-duty stuff. The First Aid kit which is sealed but accessible should we need anything for relatively minor injuries. And there is also a small kit with Tylenol, latex gloves, and a couple of other little items that come in handy but don't require any kind of medical supervision to use. We also have defibrillators on most aircraft as well. I don't know what WJ or any of the other airlines carry.

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MOEMAN....

Thank you for your reply...and thank goodness my memory hasn't turned to silly putty, yet biggrin.gif

I remember the odd ocassion when we asked for a couple of those packets from you folks before and never had any problems getting them.

I find it really strange that WJ has this "no-can-do" policy. Perhaps they should put a notice on their website that "one must provides oneself any medication required for minor headaches due to ....whatever" laugh.gif

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The impression that crosses my mind when this happens is...."first and foremost, how good are these people, (cabin crew), going to be in a "real" emergency, and secondly, would they be using this method if they knew a TC Inspector was onboard?"

My opinions about humour in the demo have been posted in another thread but...

I am very confident that I would do the best job possible to ensure the safety and well being of every guest onboard my plane if and when an emergency were to happen. If I were not confident in my skills, I would not go into work each day. I do not go into work to pass out cookies and serve drinks, I go into work first and foremost to ensure the safety and well being of up to 136 (141 including my crew) people per flight. Providing excellent guest service is of course, a close second.

That being said, I have used humour in my announcements and I will continue to use humour in my announcements at appropriate times (ie. NOT a red-eye). I do not believe that using humour takes away from my ability to perfom my safety related duties, nor have I ever had anyone imply that it would do so.

I would use humour wether or not a TC inspector, a deadheading crew, Clive, Milton, LeBlanc, The Pope, Paul Martin, etc. were on board, as long as I contiinue to do my personal best to maintain a level of professionalism (and I do believe that is possible even with the use of humour) and ensure the safety and comfort of my guests.

I find it hard to see from your point of view, Kip, but I am trying. I always appreciate the feedback from guests, it makes me better at what I do. I would have to say though, I have recieved more praise from guests when humour was used, even slightly, than when the announcements were made word for word.

I'm not trying to toot my own horn here, but the following is a letter I received from a guest after they were on a flight I worked (we receive these through our "kudos" program)as an example:

"Our flight to Cancun was a trip that was hard not to smile about! The slightly twisted but competent flight crew was able to bring fits of giggles to many if not all the guests with their zany mystery games and makeshift kareoke during the flight! We had a magical time in Cancun, but getting there with WestJet was half the fun! Thank you to all the crew for being so far from pretentious."

This is what the majority of the feedback I have received is like. I have never been approached by a guest with negative feedback regarding humour. If someone was uncomfortable with it, or took issue to it, I would gladly accept that type of feedback as well.

still looking forward to you account of your trip, for better or for worse cool26.gif ,

wjafa

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At AC we have 3 kinds of kits. The Doctor's kit which is under lock and key and can only be used by a Medical Doctor or an fa under the direction of MedLink, our ground-based medical advisors that are on call 24-7. It's got the heavy-duty stuff. The First Aid kit which is sealed but accessible should we need anything for relatively minor injuries. And there is also a small kit with Tylenol, latex gloves, and a couple of other little items that come in handy but don't require any kind of medical supervision to use. We also have defibrillators on most aircraft as well. I don't know what WJ or any of the other airlines carry.

moeman, thanks for your post. I'm not sure as to why we are unable to offer Tylenol/ASA/etc either huh.gif I'll ask my Inflight tL next chance I'm in the office.

As for what we carry onboard;

1. The Emergency Medical Kit with the "heavy duty stuff" only to be opened and used by a trained medical professional. There's nothing in the FAM that says an FA can use it under the direction of MedLink, so I'll ask about that, too.

2. The First Aid Kit which includes many forms of bandages, gauze, scissors, tweezers, etc. We only open this in the event of a more serious injury.

3. the AED's which are to be used under MedLink's discretion.

4. The Flight attendant Kit. contains burn gel, band-aids, hand wipes, needle disposal kits, tongs, the fluid control solidifier, etc.

Kip,

I find it really strange that WJ has this "no-can-do" policy. Perhaps they should put a notice on their website that "one must provides oneself any medication required for minor headaches due to ....whatever"

perhaps you should work for our web development team as an outside contractor? tongue.gif I'm trying my darndest here not to react over-defensively, but it seems to me that you are finding relatively small things (IMHO) to pick apart? I do hope your review has at least one positive thing about your experience. So far you have left the impression on me that our website is ill-informing, our CCD can't give immediate answers, and your flight was less than enjoyable (with what you only gave in your teaser).

Maybe you should stick to Big Red or another charter carrier next time since we can't seem to please you? sad.gif

despite the hints of dissatisfaction, still looking forwar5d to the whole account,

wjafa

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Amazing.

If we all were the same wouldn't life be a big bore.

When I fly different airlines I do not expect their presentation to be the same.

Had a hot meal on Air Canada on a long haul flight, had a snack and pretzels on WestJet. Air Canada is not WestJet as they are not Cathay Pacific or Regional 1.

If anyone expects the same inflight services on all carriers its not going to happen.

The smarter traveller carries toiletries, meds etc in their shave kit/toilet bag.

cool26.gifcool26.gifcool26.gif

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  I'm trying my darndest here not to react over-defensively, but it seems to me that you are finding relatively small things (IMHO) to pick apart?  I do hope your review has at least one positive thing about your experience.  So far you have left the impression on me that our website is ill-informing, our CCD can't give immediate answers, and your flight was less than enjoyable (with what you only gave in your teaser).

Maybe you should stick to Big Red or another charter carrier next time since we can't seem to please you? sad.gif 

I'm trying my darndest here not to react over-defensively

Not doing too great in this department based on your reference that I should stick to Big Red etc. etc. You are basing your remarks on what???? I haven't written a complete post yet.

So far you have left the impression on me that our website is ill-informing,

If you are referring to the comments about restricted items you are correct...do you find fault that I have shown that you do have errors on your website?? It appears that "some" of you have very thin skin when it comes to criticism that can be backed up with facts.

our CCD can't give immediate answers,

If you are referring to my questions about baggage you are correct. I posted some of the answers I received from some of your CCD staff...would you be satisfied with the replies I received when the question was really very simple? As far as "immediate" answers, do you not remember me waiting close to two weeks before I received a reply from a supervisor, (which I posted), regarding sports gear? As far as being a Website consultant, would it surprise you to learn that a senior representative from CCD contacted me by phone and asked for my input with respect to allowable limits on scuba gear?

and your flight was less than enjoyable (with what you only gave in your teaser).

Do you really think one issue on a flight is going to determine if I had an enjoyable flight or not ? Please try to think outside of the box, look at the entire picture before you jump on the "you're picky" bandwagon. Ask around, I have written some minor criticisms about Skyservice as well, and they were taken in the spirit in which they were intended. No matter what I write, or say, it will have no effect on your career, it will merely be food for thought...digest it or spit it out, but don't take it so personally.

Maybe you should stick to Big Red or another charter carrier next time since we can't seem to please you?

Another brash assumption. Have I ever said WJA can not please me?. While I will admit my initial thread amonth or so ago about the luggage issue was written in regrettable haste, for which I apologized, I don't think you can point out any thread where I have stated catagorically that WJA is a "bad airline".

Any points I may bring up when I write about a specific trip are merely my opinions and observations, if you don't like them, don't read them, but if one employee reads them, learns something, no matter how small, and it adds a bit of icing on his/her professional cake, what harm is there is my expressing an opinion??

Best to have all the information before you past judgement.

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First off, no where in any of my posts did I label you as saying "WestJet is a bad airline." So now it is you who is jumping to conclusions.

In each of my posts I honestly ended it with the comment that I am looking forward to your post about your journey. Not at any time were those comments made tongue-in-cheek or facetiously. Not at any time did I say your opinion was unwelcomed.

I also stated that I welcome feedback, and I like to use it for enhancing the ways *I* can make a guests experience more enjoyable.

In the last bit of my previous post where I strayed to get defensive, I based what I wrote on the fact that it seems (to me) that you put a negative spin on most things WJ related that you have encountered. It may not be intentional, or it may just be me being a proud employee. I have no problem with either explanation. but you cannot deny the fact that with each problem you have encountered (thus far) WJ folks have gone out of their way (on the forum and thru the company) to help resolve the issues.

No matter what I write, or say, it will have no effect on your career, it will merely be food for thought...digest it or spit it out, but don't take it so personally.

It will have no effect on my career in the long run, but by me as a professional (of some sort), I will take it in order to help me be better at my career, which in turns benefits not only myself, but my company.

As we've seen with various posts in various threads on various topics, it is hard not to take some things personally, no matter who you work for. I take immense pride in what I do. For someone to even imply (wether they mean to or if it's just how it is taken by the other party) that something tthe other person takes pride in is substandard or below expectations, is tough.

Maybe that's something else I can work on to be more successful at my job, growing a tougher skin. However when I reply to your post re: WJ not being able to administer pain relief meds, you reply back that I misread your post. When I elaborate, nothing. When an AC employee replies, they get a big "thanks!"

No, it does not surprise me you were contacted by someone senior in CCD to get your feedback. That's what makes me proud to work for this company. You made it aware to those folks that you knew what you were talking about and your expertise and vast knowledge of the subject was most likely much appreciated.

No, I don't think "one issue on a flight is going to determine if (you) had an enjoyable flight or not." However, you chose to post an issue as a teaser rather than something positive.

Best to have all the information before you past judgement."

Give us all the information then before I PASS wink.gif judgement. You ended your "teaser" post with something negative. You left that as the last thing for folks to read and think about. Was that on purpose? Would it have received less passionate response if you had posted a teaser with a positive point? Who knows.

STILL looking forward to your full post,

wjafa

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Guest rattler

Kip, re lack of aspirin. Low cost is low cost. I imagine they save money by not including these items in their first aid kit. Like others, my personal onboard kit contains aspirin (in a sealed bottle.....so as to avoid any confusion going though customs).

Guess due to your experience with the need to seek clarification re the carriage of your sports equip. and now the aspirin caper, you would be wise to chose another carrier in future.

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Kip hasn't even posted his main thesis, and already the thread is 17 posts long. What's the over/under on this thread going 150 posts?

And by the time it's over, it will morph into a urinary excretion contest over a contract, flying hours, my company is better than yours, botl, and whatever the hell Dubya has been up to over the last few weeks biggrin.gif

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Guess due to your experience with the need to seek clarification re the carriage of your sports equip. and now the aspirin caper, you would be wise to chose another carrier in future.

Someone pee in your cornflakes this morning? Your sarcastic remarks are noted and discarded with no regrets. I would have thought better of you.

PS.....You don't "choose" who your carrier will be on packaged vacations, you are "told" who you will fly with.

PPS...So it is your considered opinion that it is uncalled for to seek clarification concerning sports gear restrictions or put forth a simple question about the availability of aspirns/Tylenol on an aircraft. Must be nice to be so well informed.

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I was told that WJ will not provide oxygen for use onboard if a customer requires it, so they have to use another carrier if they wish to travel. Can anyone confirm or deny that? My Mother requires oxygen and was told just that.

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Compressed air / oxygen tanks for medical use (allowed with retrictions)

This is allowed onboard, according to their website, but I can't find anything that says they will PROVIDE the O2. You will probably have to provide the O2 bottle.

You might call WJA CCD and see what they say.

Then again according to RATTLER and WJAFA perhaps it is not prudent to ask questions...just take another carrier biggrin.gif

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Guest rattler

Guess due to your experience with the need to seek clarification re the carriage of your sports equip. and now the aspirin caper, you would be wise to chose another carrier in future.

Someone pee in your cornflakes this morning? Your sarcastic remarks are noted and discarded with no regrets. I would have thought better of you.

PS.....You don't "choose" who your carrier will be on packaged vacations, you are "told" who you will fly with.

PPS...So it is your considered opinion that it is uncalled for to seek clarification concerning sports gear restrictions or put forth a simple question about the availability of aspirns/Tylenol on an aircraft. Must be nice to be so well informed.

Was not scacastic, merely a observation based on your disatisfaction with Westjet as posted over the past month or so but perhaps I am wrong, so what did you like about their service and your experience flying with them???

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I was told that WJ will not provide oxygen for use onboard if a customer requires it, so they have to use another carrier if they wish to travel. Can anyone confirm or deny that? My Mother requires oxygen and was told just that.

That's an odd way of asking the question. For example, Air Canada "provides" the O2 but only if you pay for it (about $100 per leg, if I recall correctly, for the use of the MediPak). Just check out the complaints from persons with disabilities about this service on the CTA website. wink.gif

Several airlines in Canada do continue to allow passengers to bring their own portable O2 on board at no charge. This is permitted under the ICAO Technical Instructions for the Safe Transport of Dangerous Goods by Air and by the Canadian TDGRs where the airline agrees to carry the O2:

TDGR Section 12.14 - Medical Aid

You can also check the services available at this website:

Access to Travel - Accessible Transportation Services

Passenger TIPS - Passengers with medical oxygen

Of course, the rules are different in the US and the FAA requires that the O2 only be provided by the airline. So, if your mother is going to be travelling to the US, she will not be able to bring her own oxygen on board and would have to travel with an airline that does sell that service. Not all of them do, so you may have to shop around.

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