Dropzone Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I've read some of the background of the computer problems at WJ and it raises a very serious question. How could a company like WJ allow such an "unprecedented" yield and flight management system failure to happen? I can't recall anything as serious anywhere in the NA airline business in recent memory having the kind of impact it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JakeYYZ Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 arrrgh, someone raised the bar a quarter inch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canus Chinookus Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Dropzone, you need to put your memory cap on. It's happened, and more than once that AC had planes grounded in the last few years due to computer glitches.. computer problems are a risk for airlines because of the incredible complexities involved. We need computers for efficiency, and sometimes they cause problems. This one will be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverboy Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 It was a problem that has more or less been fixed. Sure the load factor sucks, but it is not the end of the world. Let us not forget about the, what, 80% increase in the amount of charter work we are doing in 2004/05. Huge increase, maybe, just maybe enough for us to break even in Q4. WS is now competing with two companies. One just emerged from 18 months of CCAA, the other is pricing seats on the market that are irrational. Something very soon will give. I think that it is great that AC's load factor is yet another record, but remember it is the YIELD that counts in the end. I would think that AC should have a very profitable Q4 with the seats they are filling, if their yield is there. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIP Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 It was a problem that has more or less been fixed. Sure the load factor sucks, but it is not the end of the world. Let us not forget about the, what, 80% increase in the amount of charter work we are doing in 2004/05. Huge increase, maybe, just maybe enough for us to break even in Q4. WS is now competing with two companies. One just emerged from 18 months of CCAA, the other is pricing seats on the market that are irrational. Something very soon will give. I think that it is great that AC's load factor is yet another record, but remember it is the YIELD that counts in the end. I would think that AC should have a very profitable Q4 with the seats they are filling, if their yield is there. Time will tell. Yet, when WJ had a LF advantage ithat was the flavor of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIP Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Dropzone, you need to put your memory cap on. It's happened, and more than once that AC had planes grounded in the last few years due to computer glitches.. computer problems are a risk for airlines because of the incredible complexities involved. We need computers for efficiency, and sometimes they cause problems. This one will be fixed. CC this isnt about an Operations computer that crashed briefly or an entire SOC centre in the dark after a power outage, those planes were grounded then because of flight watch considerations primarily. This is a major league screwup, if WJ is having trouble with yield management practices, someones head does indeed need to roll. Is this not along the same vein as WJ dropping the fuel hedge ball, after such a successful foray previous ? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canus Chinookus Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I guess it's apples and oranges and opinions as to what constitutes a bigger screw up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Dropzone, you need to put your memory cap on. It's happened, and more than once that AC had planes grounded in the last few years due to computer glitches.. computer problems are a risk for airlines because of the incredible complexities involved. We need computers for efficiency, and sometimes they cause problems. This one will be fixed. With all due respect, you can't compare the problems of operational systems that may go down for an hour or a day - causing delays, cancellations for people who are already ticketed - and a problem that went on for weeks or months with regard to the airline's ability to price and sell its product properly. That is baffling. I'd have to have it explained how the system can screw up like this. I don't think it is unprecedented, but I suspect it will impact WS' bookings into the next quarter. As for AC's loads, I don't take it as a given that AC will make money. I predicted this bloodbath long ago. Yields are low, and not just domestically, but on the North Atlantic as well. I should be possible to begin constructing a full-year profitability model for AC based on a flat winter, followed by decent early-spring, solid late-spring, and exceptionally strong summer and early fall profitability. Fuel is everybody's cross to bear. It looks better than it did a few weeks ago, but the first half of the quarter would have been pretty ugly for fuel costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canus Chinookus Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I guess it's apples and oranges and opinions as to what constitutes a bigger screw up. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fido Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 It was a problem that has more or less been fixed. .... Patched, not fixed. There is a lot of hard work to be put in and a giant bucket of money to be spent before it is fixed. There is still a rocky road ahead in the short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stargazer Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 That sounds like a threat to me. Fido, just what are you proposing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropzone Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 It's happened, and more than once that AC had planes grounded in the last few years due to computer glitches Yes glitches like that happen regularly but I cannot recall any that affected loads or yields to this extent. In the words of AWST "unprecedented". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybye Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 This is a major league screwup, if WJ is having trouble with yield management practices, someones head does indeed need to roll. Is it as major league as leading your company into CCAA? Seems Milty made it thru OK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FA@AC Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Is it as major league as leading your company into CCAA? Seems Milty made it thru OK! And Milty and team made the changes that have made us a viable competitor. What, if anything, does Smirkyface have up his sleeve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flightlevels Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 why does milty need bodyguards?..lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 The other problem is your pay, as a Westjet pilot, is linked to profitability/stockprice! Between the lawsuit and now this I'd be pretty "Naughty Word" off and more than a little concerned about what's up the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flightlevels Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 They could pay me 20 grand, I would still love coming to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjafa Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 They could pay me 20 grand, I would still love coming to work. Oh please, you would still love coming to work, but you'd be broke and unhappy living paycheck to paycheck. Not to mention have to hold another job on the side. As a WJ'er I am concerned. I have faith and trust in my mgt. team, however, the next few years are going to be rough. There's ample concern running through Inflight (FA's) right now about our unpaid deadheading (and the amount of deadheading scheduled in DEC) as well as the $1,95 per diem. Troubled times coming up I think. I hope to stick through them though, as I too am very happy coming to work, despite it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pictues Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Flightlevel, I call that BS. I got that stocking shelves at Save On Foods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverboy Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 The other problem is your pay, as a Westjet pilot, is linked to profitability/stockprice! Between the lawsuit and now this I'd be pretty "Naughty Word" off and more than a little concerned about what's up the road. Maybe that is why you do not work for Westjet. Lots of ups and downs in this industry, but that is what makes it so fun. Who wants the same old ho hum day to day stuff anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Troubled times coming up I think. I hope to stick through them though, as I too am very happy coming to work, despite it all. "Despite it all"... Wjafa... I hope this doesn't come across as a hit... I don't mean it that way, and I'll try my best to prevent any confusion.... and I don't know anything of your personal history, so I hope you'll forgive me if I'm assuming too much, ...but I do believe you might need a reality check! "Despite it all"... You've been in business what?, eight, or is it nine years? How many profitable quarters?... lots of 'em, until now.... (and the break in that record, only so far surmised)... Your "all" in that "despite it all"... is but the tiniest of blips on the radar screen of airline turmoil in this country. The WJ experience, from everything I've read, has been a fantastic one for all of you. I started at WD in 85... at that time the airline scene in Canada was much different.... then in 88-89 things happened.... then Max came to us and said, "I woke up the other morning and realized it was time"... I found I worked for Canadian Airlines... and more things happened... that much had happened to folks from several of us from WD, EPA, Nordair, PWA, CP... Soon, one of the many honchos to come and go showed up, saying "times are tough... we'll have to tighten our belts a bit"... and more things happened... after a time, it seemed like every other year some honcho would show up and tell us, "times are tough, we'll have to tighten our belts a bit".... I remember one of our grand honcho's sitting in a room listening to people vent... I had to vent too... I asked him why it was that nobody ever showed up to say, "Thanks for the belt tightening... things are better now"?... I honestly don't remember his mumbled response, but I eventually learned it was because things never got better, they just kept getting worse. Things kept happening, and then AC bought us... and things happened some more... you know all about that story. We tightened our belts. .... and things are still happening I guess? Who knows, maybe there's a honcho going to show up and tell us "all is well" sometime in our future? When you say, "despite it all"... I think you might have a bigger smile, and maybe see the humour in those words, spoken from the perspective of a WJ employee at this point in time, if you can look at your "all" in that context? If we can be happy going to work... and "despite it all", a lot of us still can, surely you can withstand a wee bit more "all" before you find it unbearable? Cheers, Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjafa Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Mitch, not entirely seeing the big deal over the word "all" in my post, but get your point. I will be entirely honest that I have not been a part of the airline industry as long as 8-9 years, rather we're looking at more like 2 years here, so I have plenty of inexperience under my belt. Prior to working at WJ however, I did work as management for a company that continually told me to "tighten the belts, it's tough times a'comin'." and like you, never came in to say thank you or that things were finally smooth. Apples to oranges possibly since it seems the airline industry is in a league of it's own, which I am learning. "Despite it all" for me really includes the minor things like the unpaid deadheading and the low perdiem. They are mostly selfish wants rather than needs - I eek by paycheck to paycheck and had to take a crash course in budgeting (*gasp*) the cash flow after leaving the job that was well paying but ill-satisfying. For a fellow employee to say "I'd still be happy coming to work if the paid me 20 grand" upsets me, as I think that everyone in this industry is worth so much more than that (I won't get into the pay equity stuff, what a load of "naughty word"). When we start telling people that we are worth less than we truly are, when will the "big guys" come down and say "oh so you'd be happy with less???" I admire that someone would want to work for next to nothing to do what they love, I think that shows an incredible amount of dedication. Folks like artists and Actors deal with that concept continually when they first start out, but I just don't buy into a pilot being happily underpaid if he thinks the company is still "neato" and grand. Mitch, I can definately withstand "a wee bit more", and I will, but when it gets to the point where I feel I am under appreciated and underpaid for my time and uncared for by my management, I will leave. As many stated here before, being an FA, especially these days is not a profession nor a career (although some can successfully make it one), it is a job. There's tons of people lined up at the door for my job and I am replaceable, just like everyone else. Bottom line is, sure, WJ has concerns right now, I can only speak for mine within my department. I enjoy waking up at 2 am Calgary time for checkin out east still, I enjoy making people smile, giving the best service I can, and dedicating myself to do the best job possible. WJ is a great company, but it's not all sunshine and rainbows like some would like to make it out to be. We are now a big company with big company problems, just like everyone else. I hope to be part of the solution in the future, rather than a part of the problem, as I think my prior work experience is an assest to my job in many aspects. Okay, the insomniacle ramblings are finished. I hopw this explained myself a little. Is there even such a word ar "insomniacle?" -WJAFA (minus the koolaid plus 1. hole dug probably) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Well done Wjafa... no holes dug that I can see. ...just a nice response. Thank you. WJ will undoubtedly change somewhat as it gets even bigger, but what seems to have made it such a good company so far is the attitudes of it's employees (and probably it's management, though I wouldn't know)... if those attitudes can be maintained, it'll always be a great place to work. Cheers, Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest directlaw Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Question cause I don't know...... This computer problem. Is it not essentially a yield management system? Is this not the 3 rd excuse since spring from WJ regarding yield management? Is WJ's November load factor a result of a failed attempt at increasing yield again? Is it not true that according to documents filed in the lawsuit, WJ was allegedly using AC information to increase yield? The longer WJ takes to produce the kind of profit/yeid it did in the past without the help of inside information only leads to one conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kilo Mike Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Well done wja f/a. I also had an urge to smack the "They could pay me 20 grand" golly jee wizz boy wonder. I tend to find folks that make such glib comments have no concept of what they say, or what it would be like to make such $ and try to support yourself without living at home with your parents. You have a healthy attitude that will help you stay balanced in this wonkie industry. It's not all glamour and roses, but can be a heck off alot of fun ... even at big red. I still enjoy myself and have a good laugh , or two every day. Best of luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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