Dave Buggie

"EJECT EJECT EJECT" an oral folklore that every military pilot who flew bang seat aircraft was either briefed on or briefed a fellow crewmember/pax on but is very seldom documented in check lists. On aircraft without command ejection I briefed and was briefed that the other crewmember/pax would eject on the first "EJECT" and the PF would go on the third "EJECT" (although he/she might rush it a bit). I know of at least 4.....FOUR!!! Canadian two seat ejections where this protocol was not followed, there are rumored to be more. In at least two of the verifiable cases the crewmember/pax became the Aircraft Captain for a short period of time because of confusion! In your T-Bird checklist Rich it should have been simple for it to state ....Command ejection by stating "EJECT EJECT EJECT". Instead of allowing the option of stating "Excuse me but if you have finished tidying up your work area would you please abandon the aircraft as you didn't sign it out". Anal, but I know of one life lost and I suspect others have been lost because what was briefed on ejection procedures was not followed when the s$%t hit the proverbial fan. Word fragments that are forever carved into my mind "GET O>AH DON'T DON'T ......ah fck" a micro second of confusion that perhaps avoided swatting mosquitoes overnight in NL but also could have had dire consequences. Thus, my interest when this sort of incident may continue to happen. Aw....why can't humans get the simple stuff right. To close with a bit of humour: An USAF backseater statement to the board; "I thought he was kidding until he left me all fckn alone"

A question for single engine jet ex-military, if you have old checklists lying around, do you have one that states "EJECT EJECT EJECT" as a memory item? Looked at mine upon prompting from my son......I now owe him a beer. Kip, the photo in the CBC article I saw had the correct rank.

Gosh, thank you for triggering a memory or two. Yes, I remember forgetting to put the motion on and nobody noticing or at least pretending not to if it was a check ride. It happened more often than I would like to admit although I did get better at recognizing that the motion was off. Perhaps the benefit of motion is indeed illusory.

Debating the "pinnacle of aviation".......in a discussion about simulators no less.....wow.....no irony there. I have done a lot of sims,,,,a real lot....and have often thought that motion was overused and in some cases actually hindered the training objectives. However, I would take any advice from a military pilot with a grain of salt because during my time we were allowed to use the aircraft as a training aid (pounding the circuit, pulling engines to idle on the unsuspecting student in all flight phases etc, etc.) so having motion in the sim was a luxury. In the airline world I would suggest there is a need for full axis motion even if the "feel" is not completely accurate. But I admit there were times I didn't use it if I thought the session would benefit as a result. I believe there could be a case for a broader mix of cheaper fixed base "simulators" along with the full motion variety. Beware though....... training cost cutting or cost "transfers" should never be underestimated as a causal factor in leading training experts astray. Jean, your reference to AF447 could indeed be pertinent in this discussion. The accident may have been prevented if the pilots had been trained to identify and recover from unusual attitudes in a simulator that was able to replicate leaving controlled flight, the rougher the motion the better training it would be. This was a weakness in all airline training I have experienced. I don't spend much time with professional pilots now so the training may have improved. I am thankful that I received a good variety of unusual attitude training during my military time. With due respect, the comments from your "senior regulator" would suggest to the great unwashed, of which I am a member. that he may suffer from tunnel vision and also may have lost full situational awareness which is not unheard of in the regulator breed of pilot. Perhaps the quote was taken out of context. "The minute someone feels it is necessary to inform you that they are a fighter pilot they are no longer a fighter pilot." A quote from an old man in the 439 Sqn dining room in the south dispersal Baden circa 1974, so long ago that I had to change the pronoun from "he" to the more inclusive "they" and that is a good thing.

The next one I fly.

A formation take off on the wing with all your attention focused on lead and then something happens and you have to bring your scan inside to quickly diagnose what has happened adds a second or two to a very challenging scenario. A passenger could also add some minor complications, such a sad event. Capt MacDougall is a friend of my son's and we are relieved to hear that he is recovering. Like all Canadians I am extremely saddened by Capt Casey's demise. I think her significant other may also be a team member so the Squadron has a lot to deal with. My training for EFAT on SE jets was similar to Richard's with the addition that once when I asked about a possible turn to low key my IP looked at me and casually remarked, "you are as stupid as you look"............. no place for snowflakes and unicorns in those days....... although he did add that low key might be a good destination to head for only if and after I got a relight. Aerobatics, mirrors and aligning vertical stabs.......hmmm...... interesting stuff. I do remember using the section lines in Sask and once upon a time, when I was a boy, attempting a night loop for the hell of it over northern NB.............. stars mixed with scattered farm lights ? led to using the unusual attitude recovery training that I had received. Another life lesson learned.

Jeff=JO=Jeff O=penny dropped Thanks for the kind words and the cooking lessons in Templepatrick many years ago. Kip, I'm sorry I offended you, but I'm glad you got to fly airplanes that I dreamed of and I guess you don't shop at Metro or have a CFOne card......good for you. I guess my hangar flying sense of humour is an acquired taste. To all the other ex-military pilots I offended by suggesting that we don't really deserve nor need free stuff, I also apologize. To any airline pilots getting free trips in retirement I didn't mean to cause you offense. The one thing I didn't understand is how talking about having fun in airplanes and throwing barbs in humour at pilots on other Squadrons or aircraft types is being bitter; but if it is I am one bitter SOB. I must admit that if I had known about the VIP perks while I was in I might have swallowed what was left of my limited pride and tried to fly Cosmopolitans although the controls were a bit heavy...........oops there I go being bitter again....... but it is a slippery slope....... Cosmos one day and before you know it you're a Boeing pilot. I promise that in the future I will attempt to be nicer to my fellow pilots, well almost all of them. I reserve the right to insult Airbus pilots since everyone knows the airplane flies them around not the other way around as God intended...............well that is what a Boeing pilot told me so it must be true. These are sad times, be nice to some one today. Sorry for thread drift. -30-

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Interesting that some posters are implying that people on the ground are over reacting after a couple of professional pilots dumped fuel on them. I'm even more surprised that the two professional idiots were able to maintain control of the airplane on final since the emergency must have been extremely dire. I have been doused in JP4 and it wasn't very nice. I hope it never happens to my grand-daughter. Calling them idiots is my over reaction.........after carefully reconsidering the incident and not knowing all the facts I would like to retract the idiot call in favour of just two average pilots with limited situational awareness skills and tenuous grasps of basic airmanship being put in a situation where they fell in love with checklists and the peter principle came into play. Now that is a rant!

I impersonated a pilot for years but was never caught although some First Officers suspected the truth.