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Longranger last won the day on August 8 2015

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  1. It’s not only the Harper government as you can see below from a news clip. It happened in the present Trudeau Liberal government as well, when the federal minister of labour forced the parties into mediation and eventually arbitration when ALPA threatened a strike and WestJet responded with a Lockout threat. The minister of Labour then flew into Calgary for an emergency meeting and forced the issue. The only difference is that it was forced by the minister and didn’t require any legislation but the unhappy results for the pilot group was the same, with no final vote on the matter because it was concluded through arbitration. calgaryherald.com May 25, 2018 “The threat of a strike by WestJet pilots appears to be over. The Calgary-based airline and the union that represents the pilots said Friday they have agreed to a settlement process that will involve a federal mediator. “We are grateful for the role played by the government, both with their mediation services and with the offer of support with arbitration and intervention of the minister of Labour,” said WestJet president and CEO Ed Sims. The agreement means neither WestJet or the Air Line Pilots Association can walk away from negotiations. Sims said he’s confident a settlement will be reached by the end of June. ”The immediate stages of the process are that we continue to sit around the negotiating table as we have done for many months now. The negotiating will conclude with what is called a binding arbitration. So, an arbitrator will determine the values of each case and will reach agreements,” said Sims.”
  2. Beaverboy, not sure where you get your information from, but you are out by a $100 million as it was $118 million for the 2015 pilot agreement that would have run for four years NOT $18 million. Must say you are being consistent though with the ALPA mantra of untruths that never seems to end. It’s interesting that if you listened to the 4th quarter conference call from WJ with analysts, the question was asked how much CASM cost increases for 2019 for the new pilot contract plus all the other employee groups negotiating new agreements, and the answer was..... Zero to 2%. Aside from YOS, which is good to see, don’t see where the large amounts of money are going unless that includes the 500 extra pilots that will hired. Many pilots especially WB pilots are seeing the lowest take home pay, they have ever seen yet since our new contract started on January 1st. Most pilots except those benefiting from YOS, will see reduced T4’s and it will be interesting to see what comes out of the pension negotiations because not one more penny is actually going into the “pension” line item, just some choices possibly between 20% ESP and or 10%ESP and 10 % some sort of pension program, with still the same total dollars.
  3. Johnny, If as by your post you are implying you work for AC, and if that is the case, unless you were on the negotiating team, I would take a lot of external information with a grain of salt. I wasn’t involved in the negotiations either, but any person that would have ever been involved knows that during many negotiations a lot of things get said and positions are taken, during the process. In the end, all that matters is the end result to both parties. If one party takes an extreme position, that forces the the other to come back with one as well, and ALPA was using Delta for example as a comparator, and telling pilots they were substantially underpaid, and the arbitration proved that not to be the case. I don’t have a current ACPA contract in front of me but the hourly rate on both the 787/767 today, with the ESP included, but none of the other equity uplifts that we get, is within pennies of the rate from March of 2018 for the 787 at AC mainline. As well we were due for a another bigger raise in 2020, if ALPA was able to capture a previous MOA agreement that was negotiated by the WJPA. I don’t have an Encore agreement handy, and it is now under negotiation but, it was competitive with the Jazz ALPA agreement, and we’ll see what happens with their next agreement and as well what ALPA at Jazz is voting on now for the new CPA terms. No one is a victim in this process, as the pilots had a right to join ALPA, and the process played out and the results are there, and most pilots are not too happy about it.
  4. Johnny maybe you should research your facts before using second hand information, and from CUPE newsletters? Grooming has recently become a more contentious issue , and whipped out of proportion first with the initial attempt with the WPPA and then through ALPA, as before that there were very few issues with it. Since the start of WJ, grooming for pilots (with the exception of the 767/787) has always been voluntary, part of the culture of working together, when you had time. It was also all part of the team effort to get quicker turn arounds, and since it saved tens of millions of dollars over the years, increased profit sharing. Since pilots earn the most and profit sharing is based on straight time earnings, it is easy math to see they are the biggest beneficiaries of increased profit sharing not to mention on their ESP stock options etc. Prior to the last year and a half, the profit sharing averaged over 10% of any employees straight time earnings, so not chump change by any measure. Leave it to CUPE to talk about “ writing up” employees as how would they really know as they are new on the property and have a vested interest in creating animosity against the company. I’ve been here for twenty years and haven’t seen that, but it’s all a matter of perspective and in that case who you talk to, so what statistics and facts do you have to back it up? The attrition rate at WJ mainline has been and continues to be very low, just over 1%, with most of the pilots that are leaving going overseas not to AC, unless you are talking about WestJet Encore or Swoop, which is a different story. We used to have one date of hire list between WJ mainline and Encore for example, but now that is up in the air with ALPA , so that uncertainty has caused more Encore pilots then would have gone under the old model to leave. Swoop is another story, as ALPA’s handling of that group, forced the company to hire off the street pilots, and the WAWCON there has caused turnover in pilots to be higher then it would have been. The pay at WJ mainline is well beyond the “ average “ you describe, and if you look at the total compensation, which is the only fair way to measure compensation, but not “ industry standard “ for some people, it is very competitive with AC.
  5. It’s on the record that the application was made back in June...draw your own conclusions.
  6. Yes, exactly why I made the reference to the federal government now in office, and you would hope that they had some idea of how the business model of ULCC’s work. As well we all know that lawyers and judges make a good living interpreting the law, even if the language does seem clear to some of us when we read them. Parliament can also change laws, or do it via an order in council, which sidesteps parliament altogether.
  7. Interesting article, it’s generating a lot of free PR for Swoop, and it shows Gabor’s lack of knowledge of what a ULCC is compared to an LCC, and especially his example of a full service airline such as Air Canada. An apples to oranges comparison, and it’s the Federal Government which has been actively encouraging ULCC’s to start up in Canada, and why they changed and raised the foreign ownership rules up to 49% for new ULCC’s. It’s pretty clear on the website that a checked back is extra and escalates in price if not done online, and that the base fare is only for the seat. This guy is teaching at university and can’t read that? The PR dept at Swoop must be laughing at all the free exposure and hits to the website for zero cost. It’s really not a complicated fare structure to understand, and I guess he’s never heard of unbundled fares and only paying for what you want..... just like any ULCC in the world.
  8. Neelman cofounded Morris Air which was bought and merged into SouthWest, provided startup advice to WestJet, started JetBlue, as was already mentioned, and started up Azul in Brazil, and is co-owner in the turn around at 73 year old TAP Air Portugal. All of these are successful, and this latest venture, if you go by his track record should be as well.
  9. You are bang on, and misinformation is rampant in the Flight Attendent ranks as well, on a whole host of issues including the topic under discussion on this thread. With social media now, it’s amazing how distorted information and untruths get spread and people take it as the truth. The majority of people now get their news and information from Facebook, and if as has come out now, Facebook had an undue influence on the U.S. election, and even Brexit, and on pipeline and environmental policy in Canada. As well add in a natural bias at the CBC, where this whole article originated toward union support, as well as other news outlets picking up the story, without doing any independent journalism research on their own (maybe due to cutbacks in staff etc), and you have a case of a story taking on a life of it’s own. There are Flight Attendents at WJ with T4’s well over $100,000, but that wouldn’t make very good headlines with the CBC would it.... As has already been mentioned on this thread, this is Industry standard, (with variations at individual airlines) Flight Attendants at WJ were paid on Duty time years ago, but voted in the negotiated present agreement by a majority.
  10. I’ve worked for 11 aviation companies, the Best (by far) was non Union...WestJet.
  11. The numbers don’t lie, unless you only read one side of the story, such as the ALPA compensation comparator document which conveniently omits major compensation additions which adds at least 30 percent and up increase in total compensation when comparing WJ pilots to other airlines, and isnt even mentioned or compared to AC or AT, on hourly cockpit costs, block hourly and many other comparators, so is not an apples to apples comparison. When you do the math, it’s really pretty simple, but it has to be done honestly, and it’s just a different way of getting paid then the traditional airline model, but has resulted in greater upside and T4’s for almost 22 years for WJ pilots, ESPECIALLY for those that took a bit of time to understand and take advantage of it’s greater money making ability then the traditional model. Please spare us the usual adversarial rhetoric, and stick to the facts, as they stand on their own merits.
  12. That is an interesting statement since WJ is unique in Canada if not North America, in sharing any gains and profits with it’s pilots and other employees through it’s meaningful profit sharing, 20% stock purchase plan, stock options, restricted share units, owners performance awards etc, aside from unlimited ability to earn extra through overtime and pickup, if someone is interested. When the company does well, the pilots get a significant piece of the upside. The T4 numbers don’t lie. That is still the case today, as it has been for almost 22 years, and some people still can’t get their head around our compensation system, even though it is quite simple.
  13. Is anyone who has been watching the airline scene in Canada really surprised? With up to 20 787-9’s coming the need for feed is important for success. It makes sense to build the feed before, and not after, as there are too many examples in Canada of airlines operating WB’s and having little to no feed and trying to do it afterwards. Never a dull moment in this business.
  14. Not sure where you get your information from but only two pilots have left WJ this year to go to AC, out of over 1500 pilots, or are you talking about Encore?
  15. The interesting observation here is that it is pretty hard to get fired as a pilot after you have worked for years. If on the other hand you don't follow the advice of your pilot association, association lawyer, Doctor, Insurance company, and management and then are surprised when you get fired, well should that be a surprise?