Meesowant!

[deicer]

[deicer]

Meesowant tooo...

[Specs]

I notice a lot of folks getting in to personal drones. Why? What's the attraction?

[Kip Powick]

Why? What's the attraction?

Here is just one example....

A fellow I know has a drone,(4 props..The Phantom ), that carries a Go Pro camera. He went to a large real estate business and showed what he could do as far as filming a house and the surrounding area with the drone. I talked to him last week. He has 90 orders from the real estate company at $250.00 per house.

The charge of $250.00 per house is peanuts to a Real Estate company and is a viable selling gimmick for prospective buyers.

I would love to do it in my area but my lifestyle really doesn't allow me to do it. For some of you that have a job and have spare time, it might be a good investment. The best Phantom with gimbel and Go Pro will set you back about $1200.00 to $1500.00 depending on what you want for spares for example ...... better monitor/wifi booster/ extra batteries/ prop guards/ extra fibre props etc.

They are not hard to fly...(personal; experience)..

.

[acsidestick]

Specs, they are extremely easy to fly, are gyro stabilized so that if anything starts going off the rails, you just take your hands off the controls and it will just stop and hover, using both gps and sonic altimeter to maintain its position. They are extremely stable camera/video platforms and give the users a birds eye view of anything they want.

As a for instance, I saw my neighbour going up three stories on an extension ladder to look at his roof after a big wind storm. I put my drone up with HD video and flew it about 8 inches away from my roof in a grid pattern and then went and looked at the video as though my face was only inches away from my shingles. It seems like a little thing, but it worked great.

I can also set it up at a ski jump to hover and record the jump from the air, and even crazier yet is some can be set up to automatically follow you while you ride/ski etc staying say 20 feet behind and 8 feet above you the whole way. It makes your dad's home movies look pretty dull.

On YouTube, search FPV (first person view) drones and you'll see some amazing videos. Keep in mind, these drones are flown not by looking at the drone, but through either VR googles (the best) or through your IPAD etc in real time, as though you are flying like superman.

Also keep in mind most of those videos are illegal as it is against the law to fly out of line of sight. However, many hot rod their units to fly well beyond visual range. My neighbour can do about 6 km away.

The smartest drones have gps data bases that won't allow them to operate near airports, but many do not, and I fear it's only a matter of time till the inevitable collision occur as their use, both recreational and commercial grows.

[Seeker]

A fellow I know has a drone,(4 props..The Phantom ), that carries a Go Pro camera. He went to a large real estate business and showed what he could do as far as filming a house and the surrounding area with the drone. I talked to him last week. He has 90 orders from the real estate company at $250.00 per house.

Really? Well, give me his contact info and I'll make a few calls on his behalf. Sounds like a commercial operation and I doubt he's doing it legally - TC should probably get a call. I'd also like to ensure that he's buying insurance and paying tax on the earnings.

My neighbour has a drone and I HATE that stupid thing. Even though I live in an area with large lots the high-pitched whining sound of the four props is very annoying and of course he only flies it in relatively calm, quiet conditions. Personally, I'd like to see tighter restrictions on drones (especially operation in residential areas) with higher penalties.

[Seeker]

Also keep in mind most of those videos are illegal as it is against the law to fly out of line of sight. However, many hot rod their units to fly well beyond visual range. My neighbour can do about 6 km away.

If it wasn't so expensive I'd have one of these on standby to deal with random out-of-sight operated drones:

[Kip Powick]

Really? Well, give me his contact info and I'll make a few calls on his behalf. Sounds like a commercial operation and I doubt he's doing it legally - TC should probably get a call. I'd also like to ensure that he's buying insurance and paying tax on the earnings.

Wow, it is pretty clear you don't like drones but do you not feel you are being rather presumptuous to jump all over the legal aspects of the fellow working with the real estate company when you have nothing but my post to go on....

Maybe you should take a deep breath and 'chill'.

[J.O.]

To be legal, every commercial flight of a drone must be done under a SFOC. There are hundreds if not thousands of flights happening each month and I can assure you that TC is not issuing very many certificates.

FWIW.

[Seeker]

Wow, it is pretty clear you don't like drones but do you not feel you are being rather presumptuous to jump all over the legal aspects of the fellow working with the real estate company when you have nothing but my post to go on....

Maybe, but I bet I'm right in my assumptions. Ask your friend about the process for getting a permit, ask how much the insurance costs - I bet you just get a blank look or maybe a quick change in the topic.

[inchman]

Without making any assumptions about whether this guy is operating legally or not, I think it is important that we, the front line of aviation, maintain a hard stand against misuse of drones. Somebody flying one of these could cause tens of millions of dollars worth of damage, hurt or blind people on the ground and maybe even kill a planeload. Granted, the latter is probably not going to happen in Kip's neck of the woods, but there are lots of mil aircraft down there and helos doing powerline and pipeline patrols who are well within range of these things.

There has to be rules in place and it is clear, based on others' posts, that many of the users of these things (and that YouTube video of an A320 on approach to YVR from about 2000 ft) think it's ok to break, or are simply unaware of, those that are in place. And vendors apparently don't have much inclination to reduce their market by telling potential buyers about the rules. Just like the people who think it's ok to light up an aircraft with a laser pointer.

The potential for these things is great. Both in terms of utility and in terms of risk. It may be that, like Segways, and as cool as they are, they just don't fit into the current model.

Of course, until something bad happens, nothing will get done.

[acsidestick]

Inchman, re; helos doing powerline and pipeline patrols who are well within range of these things.

Enbridge etc are already using them in some cases instead of Helos. There are ones that have sniffers and IR which fly the pipelines, power lines etc. Fire depts use them for FLIR hotspot checking, police for surveillance, enforcement, and accident reconstruction, agriculture for soil testing in planted fields etc.

They are coming, and I agree that extremely strict controls and listening need to be placed on them both recreationally and enforced commercially. A normal RC club plane is flown at a club, or other safe location. There are rules to be followed and generally are. Now these "toys" can be purchased at Futureshop and flying 45 minutes later by anyone with no knowledge of rules, such as not flying within a certain distance to an airport, or over a certain height. I watched one video where a guy flys his to around 15000 feet and then it free falls out of control. Imagine what is could hit.

I watched one video made from the park off 26 l in YVR. As the user had both himself and his vehicle in the video, I reported it to the Richmond Police, and eventually the RCMP. I'm pretty sure sucking a large one into an engine is going to be much worse than a goose.

I think they are fun, but agree that TC doesn't have a handle on how to control their use.

[inchman]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-20/drone-sightings-by-pilots-near-jfk-airport-under-u-s-faa-review.html

I'm surprised that there have been as few incidents as there has been. I would imagine that there have been many encounters that pilots did not see.

[acsidestick]

Here's a couple of pretty cool examples.

[mo32a]

A realtor I know was looking into getting a drone for photos just as Kip's acquaintance does. Once he found all the legal requirements down to requiring a flight plan for each instance he quit on the idea. I'm pretty sure prosecution by TC would be a complaint driven operation rather than enforcement and you could probably get away with it if you talked to the neighbours in the houses surrounding the house you wanted pictures of.

However one complaint to TC and you are probably in the doo-doo. I guess they could browse real estate listings as well and cross check with flight plans.

[Seeker]

A realtor I know was looking into getting a drone for photos just as Kip's acquaintance does. Once he found all the legal requirements down to requiring a flight plan for each instance he quit on the idea. I'm pretty sure prosecution by TC would be a complaint driven operation rather than enforcement and you could probably get away with it if you talked to the neighbours in the houses surrounding the house you wanted pictures of.

However one complaint to TC and you are probably in the doo-doo. I guess they could browse real estate listings as well and cross check with flight plans.

Civil Aviation Communications Centre (to report violations) 1-800-305-2059.

[DEFCON]

When I look at the ‘cool examples’ of the drone chasing the cruise ship, the first thing I see coming is a collision and probable loss of one of the numerous single engine aircraft cruising the beach at these altitudes.

[Pivot]

China has a laser defence system for taking these things down:

"It reported the machine had a 100 percent success rate, shooting down more than 30 drones in a recent test."

http://news.yahoo.com/why-china-using-lasers-down-drones-164631914.html

[inchman]

I think we're talking two different scales of equipment here.

>>>The mechanism can also take down various other small aircraft within a two-kilometer radius within five seconds of locating its target,<<<

The article is talking about military DRONES. We're talking about quadcopter drones. Just one of the problems with catch-all descriptions, I guess.

Notwithstanding, I'm sure they could take out a drone, though. Maybe seeker could get one of those laser-thingys on Ali Baba.

[inchman]

When I look at the ‘cool examples’ of the drone chasing the cruise ship, the first thing I see coming is a collision and probable loss of one of the numerous single engine aircraft cruising the beach at these altitudes.

Now you're just giving ideas to the people in those beachfront condos and homes who have to put up with the sound of clapped out banner-towing aircraft all day long, every day. They could set up a barrier of drones almost like the Barrage Balloons in WWII.

Not that I'm condroning it.

[Seeker]

Maybe seeker could get one of those laser-thingys on Ali Baba.

Maybe seeker could get one of those laser-thingys on Ali Baba.

I've already checked! Unfortunately, not available - Other possible (but not advised) options include RF jamming the 2.4 and 5.8 ghz band and building a honking big spark gap transmitter.

[acsidestick]

[Kip Powick]

acsidestick.....I have stayed out of the pro and cons of small drones because no matter what we do, or post, there will always be "nay-sayers". I'm with you, I think they can fulfill a role in many areas of our life and with the advent of new technology there is a very bright future for the small drones.

Certainly there are cons with the advent of the "anyone can buy" a small drone and use it as they see fit and no doubt regulations will be forthcoming but I firmly believe that they are far from just being a novelty and will no doubt prove their worth in days to come.

I'm sure Orville and Wilbur had their detractors as well and thankfully they persevered .....

[acsidestick]

Kip, in my lifetime, I don't see this as a threat to the position of Airline pilot. Military drone accident rates clearly show there is a long way to go before Robbie the Robot is flying passengers.

That being said, if I were a Helo pilot, I would be very worried. A very high percentage of what helos now do are already testing to do, or are doing, replace the 7000 thousand an hour helo with a hundred dollar an hour drone.

What is even more worrisome is that there are many things the drones can do, that even the helos cannot, due to their size and very little disturbed air area.

For instance, currently two traffic helicopters (Robinson R44s), and one small Cessna take off twice a day for two hours in a particular city in Canada to do traffic reports. Imagine the cost of providing those traffic reports. Now imagine a station that has a fleet of 6, fifteen thousand dollar drones equipped with TCAS etc. Each has a 4k camera with attached 500 mm lens. You could throw them out the door autonomously with only one operator controlling them all. They can go, hover and sit 500 feet above all the Hotspots for two hours and then come home for recharging. The operator/cameraman is sending back continuos feed birds eye view of the entire city traffic grid. No more helos needed.

I was going to post some details about how these are already being used in law enforcement, in conjunction with Department Helos, but thought better about it, but suffice it to say, bad guys beware.

The issue isn't whether or not it's going to happen, because it is. The issue is that the regulators are not keeping up with rapid deployment recreationally of these products, and the need to ensure some level of ability before allowing the sky to be filled.

Someone stated above about the need for flight plans, licensing, etc. This is only true outside of already established recreational rule sets. You can't, for instance, fly within an area 8km from an airport. As I mentioned earlier, the really smart ones won't even let themselves fly into restricted airspace.

The toys from Futureshop and most Hobbyshops are no more regulated in the sky than kites and model rockets. It is against the law to penetrate restricted airspace with those too.

My neighbour used his to watch his daughter walk to school for the first time alone, roughly 1 km away. She didn't know he was even there. Although this is pretty neat, it is also illegal, as he does not have line of sight with the drone.

What's legal, what's capable, what's acceptable and what is enforced are all separate things currently, and I agree that this all needs to be brought under an umbrella of control before it gets out of hand. In the meantime, flying using VR goggles gives you a real "superman" experience. It helps explain why folks are enjoying this whole new hobby. It might not be Crack, but it is addicting. Keep in mind while watching, this is the view of the operator, he is not watching it from the ground, but is in the driver seat with full telemetry, altimetry, location etc.

[AAS]

The FAA wants you to have a pilot's license to fly commercial drones.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/11/24/faa-drone-rules-would-require-license/

If you're planning to shoot your next movie using a drone, beware: you may need to meet some stringent conditions to stay in the Federal Aviation Administration's good books. Sources tell the Wall Street Journal that the agency will propose commercial drone rules that require a conventional pilot's license. Yes, you may need to have flown manned aircraft for dozens of hours to even think of controlling a UAV for cash. You'd also have to fly only during daylight, stay under 400 feet and remain within sight of your craft, so any hopes of high-altitude night shots would go out the window. And these rules would apply to any drone weighing 55 pounds or less; small, easy-to-fly vehicles like 3D Robotics' Iris+ and DJI's Inspire 1 would be subject to the same demands as larger, more complex models.

Whatever you think of these requirements, you'll have a chance to offer some feedback. The FAA is expected to make its proposal before the end of the year, and there will be a public comment phase where your input (hopefully) influences the final rule set. It may take up to two years to hash things out, so these terms definitely aren't set in stone. Wall Street Journal.